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2021/08/24 13:12:56
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
Whilst I may have been unnecessarily snarky, it was a genuine suggestion. Space marines are primaris now. That's the reality. Tilting at that windmill is not gonna get anyone anywhere.
Ultimately they're space marine models that look pretty good, and these new BT ones are bound to be more knightly and less tacticool. And that was the common complaint about the primaris. Some people preferred to old more knightly look over the sleek tacticool look. But now you can have that too.
I found the complaints about BT getting unique units to be funny. Wasn't one of the biggest Primaris gripes that SM all looked the same (which they did anyway BTW)? Now there are distinct units for subfactions and people are complaining.
I'd say make up your mind but alas the Internet is the Internet after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 13:19:56
2021/08/24 13:20:45
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
Just paint any Marines black dude, they all look the same anyway/
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
2021/08/24 13:27:15
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
Geifer wrote: I find that Templar a bit meh.Basic Mk.X Marine as is to be expected, but he could have used a little more decoration. He doesn't need to look like a Chirstmas tree, but a little more adornment to counteract the inherent tacticool look of Primaris wouldn't go amiss. Maybe there are optional bits on the sprue like purity seals and other things that got revved from the old upgrade sprue and this will be a moot point, but from what's shown I'm not particularly happy with the Initiate.
I think the rumour said that there would be separate Sword Brethren kit too, so presumably they will look more extra. But I just want to see all the new models so I can make a proper judgement. I really wish there is a great variety of bits. Primaris marines generally look cool, but sameyness is their big weakness. I really hope they break away from that with this release.
True, more kits open more possibilities for extras. I just hope we get any at all, regardless of which kit(s) they're in. These days I can't help but feel wary about that kind of stuff until I actually see what get. It seems like GW has been cutting down on optional bits so much in the more recent past compared to what we used to have. maybe not universally, but the optional bits seem to be getting sparser.
But yeah, we'll see how Templars fare in that regard.
posermcbogus wrote: Excuse me while I burst into a flaming ball of rage that Black Templars have literally gotten the thing I fantasized about for years but it's only for Big Marines. There are some nice details on that mini, and it's cool that GW are chaining weapons to wrists like all good Templars should, but goddamn. This is so close to what I've wanted.
Have you considered stopping pointlessly hating on the primaris and enjoying the cool new models instead?
Oh man. I'm so sorry. So sorry that I've posted an opinion you don't agree with. You are right, and I was foolish and wrong.
I'm sorry that I'm posting an opinion about the upcoming black templars release, in the black templars thread. I'm sorry I voiced some disappointment. I'm sorry that I spent years painstakingly learning to model and convert black templars, because GW wouldn't make more of their own. I'm sorry for that enthusiasm and passion. I'm sorry that I waited with baited breath for a new character, or campaign, or even just some extra fluff, a battle report, dared to even dream of a new transfer sheet, for YEARS. I'm sorry the last time my chapter got any love was back at the end of 7th, and we only got a bit of artwork showing us hanging out with xenos, and a formation to use for like 3 weeks before 8th dropped. Your snarky remarks about how pointless it is that I have a large army already, and don't want to re-buy stuff because big marines are only allowed to ride in big cars, and never be backwards compatible with anything has made me see the light. My opinions are pointless, I am just a hater, I should just toss all of my existing minis, and shut up and buy primaris like a good boy, because nothing retro is ever of value, and opinions like mine should be ban worthy. Thank you so much for behaving like a mod and telling Tevna and I to move on after you got your parting shot in, you really are an asset to this community.
You're entitled to an opinion and shouldn't be degraded (despite doing the exact same in return), but simultaneously they gave you exactly what you wanted - exciting new cool black templar models so you don't need to convert any more of your own. You can't then complain they gave you the wrong new minis just because you don't want to buy something.
Actually, you can complain about getting the wrong new models just fine. It's just not realistic to expect old Marines to actually get releases anymore. It wasn't a realistic prospect when Primaris were first released four years ago, and the absence of old Marines outside of sideshow releases in the meantime should have put the final nail in that coffin by now even for diehard holdouts. It's a shame if you like old Marines, but it's over. Old Marines are done. That's just the way it is.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2021/08/24 13:27:26
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
None of which is lost on me, hence my original post started with "excuse me". I know it's pedantic. None of the irony, stupid as I may seem, of waiting years years for an update, only to Veruca Salt it and say "i don't want this one" is lost on me. Jesus, if I'd have known it was going to start such a fething dogpile I'd have kept it to myself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 13:28:14
2021/08/24 13:31:07
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
The super flamer was to be expected. We got super bolters, super plasmas, then super meltas, so naturally if a flame weapon was to be released it wasn;t going to be just a basic flamer. Thank God they corrected the D2 though, that would have been obnoxious.
2021/08/24 14:49:25
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
Kanluwen wrote: It could always just be the already mentioned Hellfuries, if and when they do a Gravis option. Could come with 3 different versions even.
What if Hellfuries were just what would eventually become Eradicators?
Tbh the only sense I can make of the whole primaris thing after all this time is that, unless Kirby being fired cancelled an AoS style reboot and primaris were meant to be the marines of a functionally unrelated setting, then this is a result of the sculpting team having too much power and going “We’re going to make a completely new range of marines no matter how impossible it is to reconcile with the setting’s lore”.
That said, if you still think by now old mark armour is gone you’ve not really been paying attention to the fact the same inmates running the asylum who made double marines up are also fanboys of the classic style. We’re going to have space marines and lore-unfriendly awkward marines side by side for a really long time.
2021/08/24 17:09:59
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Makes the Primaris models feel even more extra special or something?
It's likely so the weapon can work with bolt rifles. The AP also keeps it from competing for air with the assault bolters.
It basically needed to have these stats.
2021/08/24 18:05:50
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
H.B.M.C. wrote: On one hand it seems strange that GW went through the whole rationalisation of flame-type weaponry to make them all range 12", only to give Marines a super-special 15" flamer because... Primaris?
On the other hand, perhaps this opens up some design space for other flame weapons that perhaps should have longer ranges (Hellhounds being a good example - they had a 24" range back in the day!).
Makes the Primaris models feel even more extra special or something?
It's likely so the weapon can work with bolt rifles. The AP also keeps it from competing for air with the assault bolters.
It basically needed to have these stats.
Did they need to give mark 10 armour marines Scyllax bolters as standard in the first place?
So about this fella here, what is your take? Will there be a new neophyte kit or could this be an expanded Reiver kit with an additional BT-specific sprue similar to the hounds of morkai?
Reivers don't seem to have been received all too well and are somewhat hampered by subpar rules, so this might be a way to get them off the shelves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 18:38:14
2021/08/24 18:49:48
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
The so-far-correct rumor suggested there is a "3 model Neophyte set" on the way, packed with a Black Templar upgrade frame that would "allow for you to build Neophytes with Shotguns or Bolt Pistols+CCWs" but that they would be able to take "Boltguns, Shotguns, or Bolt Pistols+CCWs". The latter would line up with a full Reiver kit plus a BT sprue if the person who reported the kit initially to the rumormonger mistook the Bolt Carbine for a standard Boltgun and the Heavy Bolt Pistol for a standard Bolt Pistol...which is possible.
That would jibe with the (as far as I can see)no longer available 3 model Reiver ETB set which had and has been making me think that the Neophytes outside of the Crusader Squads(which have been implied to be a dedicated SKU..and I'm wondering if it's some kind of mix of Reiver and Intercessor sprues) might just be that ETB kit plus the BT sprue.
TLDR: Yeah, I definitely think that's a Neophyte. How they'll be released? Who knows!
Sidenote! Finding the details of the rumors again, there's some...interesting bits. A Reddit post has the BT army box list and it suggests 4 Neophytes to 6 Initiates in the Crusader Squads from the BT army box listing. I distinctly recall seeing 3 for the box listings of individual units and the Initiates being a 5 model set, while the Reddit post has 4:6 for the individual boxes. Might be a SOB situation where the army pack has unique sculpts on set frames that the full kits won't have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 19:04:12
2021/08/24 22:00:37
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
The so-far correct rumour never listed 3 Neophytes, so I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. Absolutely zero chance of an ETB kit being repackaged with an upgrade sprue.
These are the only rumours we have any reason to believe at this stage:
October and November 2021:
Complete BT release with
Ancient
Helbrecht
Grimaldus
Emperor's Champion
Seneschal
Initiates (6 Marines with Intercessor CC equipment or auto bolt rifles),
4 Neophytes (boltguns or chainswords)
The Crusader kit will have options for a Sword Brother unit leader with cape, and there's a 15" AP-1 flamer.
The Sword Brother kit will have plenty of CC options and the option to make a Marshal (like with the Custodes Warden kit that gives you the option of making a Captain).
There will be two Crusader Squads: the old one that everyone knows and a new one made up exclusively of Primaris. The latter will be 5-11 Primaris Initiates, 4-8 Primaris Neophytes, and 1 Primaris Sword Brother. Neophytes will have 2W and 2A like other Primaris.
There'll also be a conversion/bitz/upgrade sprue that will have Templar relics on it (so-and-so's helmet, the sword of such-and-such, etc.), shotguns for Neophytes, and more customisation options like extra arms (Neophyte holding a helmet), or backpack-mounted candles. There will also be a multi-melta which will become a BT vehicle option. It'll replace the stubber on Primaris vehicles.
They were translated from French, thus "Seneschal" instead of "Marshal".
Since those were posted, the contents of the launch box have been corroborated by Valrak, who claims to have seen it. His earlier comments about the models BT are going to receive are identical to the above. Apply salt as required
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/24 22:03:28
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2021/08/24 22:05:29
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
My brain must have cross-pollinated the 3 from a different subject with the BT rumor day of...because I've got it listed going as far back as last Sunday!
My bad! Either way, I'll be interested to see how it shakes out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 22:07:06
2021/08/24 22:43:51
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
Marshal Loss wrote: They were translated from French, thus "Seneschal" instead of "Marshal".
Aww... and here I was thinking Seneschal was the new BT-equivalent of a Primaris Lieutenant.
I think they still might be.
From a release perspective, it doesn't really make sense to me that they would release a unique clam pack Marshal... Only to then have options in the Sword Brother kit to build a distinctly different Marshal.
Plus, to satisfy my own curiosity (as a non French speaker) marshal and seneschal are distinctly present in both languages sharing a common Germanic origin, so it wouldn't make much sense from a linguistic/localization perspective to switch from one to the other between languages either.
Plus even old Helbrecht is called "High Marshal" on the French GW webstore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 23:57:54
2021/08/25 13:26:41
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
Black Templars used to have a rank called Castellan which was below a marshal, and commanded a particular chapter keep or detachment. Seneschal is probably that, and will be their lieutenant equivalent.
2021/08/25 18:41:29
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
pgmason wrote: Black Templars used to have a rank called Castellan which was below a marshal, and commanded a particular chapter keep or detachment. Seneschal is probably that, and will be their lieutenant equivalent.
They still do have that rank in lore, but it's more equivalent to Captain rank due to the Templars unorthodox structure.
Helbrecht is the High Marshal and by typical Space Marine standards is the Chapter Master. However each Crusade operates independently as though it were a sub-Chapter in it's own right.
So the Marshal's Household contains similar roles and assignments as a codex Chapter's command staff, making each Marshal more responsible than a codex Captain but less significant than a Chapter Master. Below that are multiple Fighting Companies structured similar to the Companies of a codex chapter, giving a Castellan equivalent responsibility to a Captain.
So they could add Seneschal as a Lieutenant equivalent ranking between Sword Brothers and the Castellan in a fighting company.
Spoiler:
Edit: I will say though that it is odd that there is no mention of a Castellan kit or upgrade in the rumor so Seneschal could be a mistake, or there could be Castellan options buried in one of the kits and the rumormonger didn't see it.
I do think though that unless the current BT structure is changed then Seneschal is likely their Lt-eq, with Marshal = CM-eq and Castellan = Cpt-eq
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/25 18:51:41
2021/08/25 22:02:42
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Also neither the Knight Castellan and Castellan Crowe are referred to as "Seneschal" on the French GW webstore...
2021/08/26 02:15:59
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
In any case, to clear this up, directly from the rumour monger:
Seneshal/Seneschal is supposed to be Marshal: I got a little mixed up in my translations.
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2021/08/26 03:59:57
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
Which should be infinitely preferable to either someone pulling info out of their bum or parroting someone else without any sort of investigation.
In any case, to clear this up, directly from the rumour monger:
Seneshal/Seneschal is supposed to be Marshal: I got a little mixed up in my translations.
Not finding the post you're supposedly quoting, but in the process of actually confirming I found a French Warhammer wiki describing a Seneschal in the same way as a Marshal and citing it to the 4e 'dex, so fair enough.
2021/08/26 08:18:06
Subject: Black Templars Compiled thread(Updated 8/23)
pgmason wrote: As I understand it the Rumours are from a french source. Seneschal is basicaly the french word for castellan - i.e. someone who manages a castle.
Did you look that up or just assume it was true because someone else said it?
All three titles were introduced into English via French around the 14th century.
Very strong "I don't read French but I like to use Google" energy.
Which should be infinitely preferable to either someone pulling info out of their bum or parroting someone else without any sort of investigation.
Yes, your flailing attempts to correct others using etymology available on Wikipedia is no doubt an inspiration to researchers across the globe.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Why do they keep having Marines hold the weapon by the carry handle or have top mounted grips when they have a handguard modeled on the weapon?
Probably because the arm can't actually reach the handguard underneath, so they have to do that to hide the fact that the proportions don't actually work with these hugely oversized weapons. But yeah, I don't know why they design the weapons to have that handguard that nobody can use.
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