Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
The Dark Eldar (and the Dark Elves before them) have slaves. Does GW need to put out a statement saying that they don't actually support slavery, or can we just be adults about it and assume that they don't?
Apparently Star Wars thinks it still needs to remove the name "Slave 1" from it's marketing despite showing slavery and how awful it is
Voss wrote: 'We don't support your ideology' is a pretty meaningful statement.
Not when such things are assumed.
Like I said, GW hasn't made any specific statements regarding Pol Pot, so let's assume they're pro-Khmer Rouge.
For the most part, I agree with your big post above. However, when there's a perception that your product is possibly attracting nazis, I would think there's a value in pointing out that your product is being misconstrued by those people and isn't intended for them at all.
Whether or not that perception is reality, and whether or not it's a big enough problem at this point in time to warrant this action on their behalf ... I don't know if any of us actually have sufficient data to make that call, but in this day and age of social media they obviously felt it was the wisest course.
Arcanis161 wrote: Apparently Star Wars thinks it still needs to remove the name "Slave 1" from it's marketing despite showing slavery and how awful it is
Precisely my point. Thank you!
And for anyone paying attention, I fully admit that, yes, I am engaging in a level of mass reductio ad absurdum BECAUSE THIS WHOLE TOPIC IS ABSURD!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 04:31:47
Voss wrote: Going to disagree with you, HBMC, GW's statement was very necessary. Particularly in Europe and the US, a statement against hatred is sadly necessary.
Maybe you're In a unique place of privilege, but the idea that people aren't in favor of hatred is... not an experience I share. Hell, just tonight someone told me that the 'Off white' fashion designer who died deserved it because he was obviously doing drugs, and Epsteen/Maxwell's victims knew what they were signing up for.
This isn't a rare experience. So no, it isn't laughable at all.
Actually curious as to what section of the country you're at. Lived and traveled coast to coast and never saw anything like you describe.
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Voss wrote: Going to disagree with you, HBMC, GW's statement was very necessary. Particularly in Europe and the US, a statement against hatred is sadly necessary.
Maybe you're In a unique place of privilege, but the idea that people aren't in favor of hatred is... not an experience I share. Hell, just tonight someone told me that the 'Off white' fashion designer who died deserved it because he was obviously doing drugs, and Epsteen/Maxwell's victims knew what they were signing up for.
This isn't a rare experience. So no, it isn't laughable at all.
Actually curious as to what section of the country you're at. Lived and traveled coast to coast and never saw anything like you describe.
From NJ, been all up and down the east coast, lived in Texas and WA. I've seen it.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Arcanis161 wrote: Apparently Star Wars thinks it still needs to remove the name "Slave 1" from it's marketing despite showing slavery and how awful it is
Precisely my point. Thank you!
And for anyone paying attention, I fully admit that, yes, I am engaging in a level of mass reductio ad absurdum BECAUSE THIS WHOLE TOPIC IS ABSURD!!!
I’m still trying to divine what the current goal is supposed to be. Come take a break and join the audience. MJ and I made popcorn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 04:44:34
Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
You've obviously never seen the hystericals here call people who simply play imperium factions as being wholesale fascist endorsers.
Voss wrote: Going to disagree with you, HBMC, GW's statement was very necessary. Particularly in Europe and the US, a statement against hatred is sadly necessary.
Maybe you're In a unique place of privilege, but the idea that people aren't in favor of hatred is... not an experience I share. Hell, just tonight someone told me that the 'Off white' fashion designer who died deserved it because he was obviously doing drugs, and Epsteen/Maxwell's victims knew what they were signing up for.
This isn't a rare experience. So no, it isn't laughable at all.
Actually curious as to what section of the country you're at. Lived and traveled coast to coast and never saw anything like you describe.
From NJ, been all up and down the east coast, lived in Texas and WA. I've seen it.
Ohio, Arkansas, NYC, Texas (Dallas/Fort Worth and Amarillo), Oklahoma, New Mexico, Northern Arizona, currently California and soon Eastern Arizona. Maybe we passed each other? Fortunately, I have no intention of traveling to the other areas you said.
But, to be clear, Arcanis161 isn't specifically against the territories is hasn't travelled to or lived in, so please don't accuse him of being anti-[insert state here].
Maybe he should release a statement saying he's pro-all states, just to be on the safe side?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 04:49:30
H.B.M.C. wrote: But, to be clear, Arcanis161 isn't specifically against the territories is hasn't travelled to or lived in, so please don't accuse him of being anti-[insert state here].
Maybe he should release a statement saying he's pro-all states, just to be on the safe side?
Everything but Oregon. Besides Tillamook, it's just a filter for all but the most determined Californians.
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
You've obviously never seen the hystericals here call people who simply play imperium factions as being wholesale fascist endorsers.
I have seen them. And further, I have been condemning that tactic since my first post in this thread. Just like I have been condemning yours and HBMCs disregard for the fact of the actual issue that needs fixing.
Once again, the left create new problems with their impractical solutions to the issues. But the right doesn't even acknowledge that the issue exists.
This prancing around you are doing, this misdirect by pointing at the "big bad" that is the left extremism and going "but what about them!" doesn't in any way take away the fact of the problem or absolve "your side" from doing anything, ANYTHING, to avoid having to admit that there is a problem that needs fixing.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
You've obviously never seen the hystericals here call people who simply play imperium factions as being wholesale fascist endorsers.
I have seen them. And further, I have been condemning that tactic since my first post in this thread. Just like I have been condemning yours and HBMCs disregard for the fact of the actual issue that needs fixing.
Once again, the left create new problems with their impractical solutions to the issues. But the right doesn't even acknowledge that the issue exists.
This prancing around you are doing, this misdirect by pointing at the "big bad" that is the left extremism and going "but what about them!" doesn't in any way take away the fact of the problem or absolve "your side" from doing anything, ANYTHING, to avoid having to admit that there is a problem that needs fixing.
I'm not prancing around. I told you there's distinctly different elements aimed at different audiences.
Then you turn around and claim interpolated nonsense such as the above.
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
You've obviously never seen the hystericals here call people who simply play imperium factions as being wholesale fascist endorsers.
I have seen them. And further, I have been condemning that tactic since my first post in this thread. Just like I have been condemning yours and HBMCs disregard for the fact of the actual issue that needs fixing.
Once again, the left create new problems with their impractical solutions to the issues. But the right doesn't even acknowledge that the issue exists.
This prancing around you are doing, this misdirect by pointing at the "big bad" that is the left extremism and going "but what about them!" doesn't in any way take away the fact of the problem or absolve "your side" from doing anything, ANYTHING, to avoid having to admit that there is a problem that needs fixing.
I think it's a matter of scale and who's more vocal. Online, I've only seen....maybe...one bona fide and verified fascist, and dozens of people, generally of more "left" leanings, accusing other wargamers of being fascists. IRL, that's a whopping 0-2.
Not saying it doesn't exist, but, based on my own experiences, it seems far more rare than what's being implied.
GoldenHorde wrote: No the pretty dumb and unnecessary statement is "We are not the fascists in our game universe"
I mean this common sense stuff needs to be spoon fed to the woke crowd, considering the reality disconnect that they currently suffer from.
That statement wasn't being made to the "woke crowd". It was being made to the nazi that went to the tourny. And the groups that defended him being there.
You've obviously never seen the hystericals here call people who simply play imperium factions as being wholesale fascist endorsers.
I have seen them. And further, I have been condemning that tactic since my first post in this thread. Just like I have been condemning yours and HBMCs disregard for the fact of the actual issue that needs fixing.
Once again, the left create new problems with their impractical solutions to the issues. But the right doesn't even acknowledge that the issue exists.
This prancing around you are doing, this misdirect by pointing at the "big bad" that is the left extremism and going "but what about them!" doesn't in any way take away the fact of the problem or absolve "your side" from doing anything, ANYTHING, to avoid having to admit that there is a problem that needs fixing.
I'm not prancing around. I told you there's distinctly different elements aimed at different audiences. Then you turn around and claim interpolated nonsense such as the above.
Really? Because I just watched you spend an entire page of the thread playing the victim about thought police because someone else was talking about disrespecting members of the forum community. You decided to fight for a hill about your right to be disrespectful by arguing about something that wasn't actually happening to you.
And here HBMC makes a big statement about how it shouldn't be necessary for companies to say FU to Nazis, while disregarding that a Nazi very much thinks 40k is a nice place to be for them. You're arguing that the statement shouldn't need to be made, which I agree with when the word SHOULDN'T is being paid attention to. Sometimes it is. The statement doesn't need to be made to the regular public. It doesn't need to be made to people to placate them. It DOES need to be made to the groups who want to take 40k as a place where their BS can fester.
Which is what I said to you. The statement isn't for the woke crowd. It's for the Nazis who need to be told that their money isn't needed and not wanted.
And again, even that is just words. What happens when the rubber meets the road? What does GW do when one actually shows up in their building? Thats the test that maters.
You didn't have to agree. You didn't have to say anything. But you did CHOOSE to engage my statement by shifting my point to being about how you were being attacked by the extreme left instead of acknowledging the need for the statement to be made to the alt-right.
I am not calling you a nazi or a nazi sympathizer. I am calling you a symptom of a political ideology that poisons discourse by actively stalling it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/30 05:31:12
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
After 10 pages, I think this thread has really said all that is going to be productively said here.
There have been some good points made, and we will consider this when looking at moderation strategy moving forwards, but right now it largely seems to be just generating a lot of ill will from either side, so best to let it rest.