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Made in ch
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.


Maybe anti-horde duty with lastrum bolters and claws in the +1 attack stance. That’s 6 attacks per model that hit on 2+ with S6 re-rolling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/22 13:49:52


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




At the Gates of Azyr

leerm02 wrote:
I have to say I'm loving the point drops!

On the subject of Land Raiders... I actually have had good luck running one in an astartes list at 1k points, because at that level it becomes difficult to deal with (or, alternately, a huge bullet sponge that lets a lot of your units score points).

I'm wondering if the same might be true of our venerable land raider...


I was already contemplating taking a Land Raider with the codex release, but after another points drop I’m definitely going to try it out.
   
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I don't understand how our powerfists still didn't get a power bump in the damage department. The Andrathic Destructors are looking like our best anti-elite option now. I just don't get the intent behind the lack of obvious changes.
   
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Not EVERYTHING is -1dmg. Our aquilons do still overkill a knight if they charge it afterall.

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Hi all,

I had never been all that interested in the Custodes but I have always thought that the Sisters of Silence were pretty cool. I was interest to hear that it is now possible to make a proper detachment using only SoS units.

However, I assume that an all SoS army would still be pretty bad, right? It may be possible, and they at least they warlord traits and stuff now, but am I right that, say, a 1000 point list would still struggle in most situations?

There is also the practical side that I would need something like 40-50 models. Are there any good model options for an HQ other than the one from the Valerian and Aleya twin pack?

Thanks for any info

7120 points 1480 points 80 points
140 points 1377 points 75 points
197 points 1835 points 485 points
415 points 2560 points 615 points
2145 points 1785 points 815 points
2904 points 3116 points
 
   
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Your in luck. You can make a decent 2k list with only SoS now. It is rather cost prohibitive though.

Spoiler:

+++ SoS (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [107 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Anathema Psykana, Emperor's Chosen

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: 2x Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Knight-Centura: 2. Silent Judge (Aura), Enhanced Voidsheen Cloak, Executioner Greatblade, Warlord

Knight-Centura: 1. Oblivion Knight, Executioner Greatblade, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Knight-Centura: 3. Mistress of Persecution (Aura), Excruciatus Flamer, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Witchseeker Flamer

+ Troops +

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 9x Prosecutor: 9x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

+ Fast Attack +

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

+ Dedicated Transport +

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




All things told, this is 8 rhinos and 19 box's of SoS to create. Not cheap in the least and has some bad matchups. It isnt a bad list though and i'd rate it at an A- in terms of gameplay since its pretty good at doing most secondaries.

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What are people's thoughts on Telemon after the point adjustment? I know Tau/Eldar anti-tank is a legit looming threat, but they were already so good, and a discount just feels so tasty.

I just ordered two and some Sagitarrum upgrade kits because something tells me they'll see a lot of use. I also just love the models soooo much.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
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Telemon was at this point range before, and it was amazing, which is why they went up on the points to the current amount.

Its even better now with shield host traits, though it is not as durable as it once was in the grand scheme of things and no longer benefits from character auras.

The points drop were in due to the fact that its not core, and you are only allowed one Eternal Pentient dread compared to before.


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 Eihnlazer wrote:
Your in luck. You can make a decent 2k list with only SoS now. It is rather cost prohibitive though.

That is a sweet list! This is very helpful, thank you

7120 points 1480 points 80 points
140 points 1377 points 75 points
197 points 1835 points 485 points
415 points 2560 points 615 points
2145 points 1785 points 815 points
2904 points 3116 points
 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Had a 2k game against necrons with an Emperors Chosen list.

4 jetbikes took out a 20man necron warrior squad with their hurricane bolsters after I made them into Dread Host with Esteemed Amalgam. Turns out 48 shots at S4, Ap1 is really good.

Blade Champion with Peerless Warrior and Auric Exemplar took out the second 20man warrior squad (that squad had lost 4 in shooting already, blade champion "only" killed 16 necron warriors)

I brought Valerian, because I was curious what he could do. He and the Nightbringer killed each other which was an awesome moment.

Trajann is just amazing and he got even cheaper now. Just no way that you don't include him in every single list.

After my opponent lost both 20man warrior squads his board presence was severely dampened, which allowed me to pull ahead in primary points. Ended up winning decisively.

The more I play Emperors Chosen, the more I start to love them. Esteemed Amalgam is definitely one of the best stratagems in the codex.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.

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 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.

   
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I honestly don't see the value in Prosecutor troops. 50 point objective holders I guess. But what can't wipe out a 5 person squad of t3 troops that have zero support? I'd rather waste a single spear squad, at least they can pop strats and actually camp out.

I also want to ask if anyone thinks there has been a meta shift in our dreads now with the point changes? Obviously Telemon is BAMF, but for cost, aren't plastic contemptors at least a halfway decent AT and mixing it up in the front lines now? Or even DS into the backfield and popping off their Melta at something juicy?
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.



Yeah, but as Fezzik says... using prosecutors for backfield camping is just SCREAMING to have them taken away.
And if you cant leave home without 3 HQs and 3 required troops you're very, very limited.
I mean it is a 1st world problem... having 2 squads of Custodes for the Hold 1/2 is sufficient, but then again you're "only" ahead for like 80 pts which in custodes gives you not that much. And playing hold 2/3 at 1500 is really hard for Custodes anyway. So... I guess!
I am just confliced by the requirement of 3 HQs which basically means you're out of other fun stuff at that pts level.

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I use a Prosecutor squad. They're great. You put 3-4 in cover and one touching the objective. It's 60 points or 5 2+ wounds. If anything with AP-2 or better is targeting them you already have a small victory on trades because it won't be cost efficient at 60 points
   
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I know with the current rush to put the cheapest thing possible on the backfield OBJ this suggestion is a violation of norms, but I dare say a full squad of Flamer sisters with a SoS HQ would be an amazingly devastating back field fortifier. Anything that plops down beside them gets to eat 11d6 Auto hitting s4 ap1 d1 shots. If you drop a purgation sweep thats 40-60 hits. Thats a dead squad of BLightlord terminators. And it's a dead squad of Bladeguard Vets.

I think wasting 250ish points on that isn't a bad plan for holding back fields.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.



Yeah, but as Fezzik says... using prosecutors for backfield camping is just SCREAMING to have them taken away.
And if you cant leave home without 3 HQs and 3 required troops you're very, very limited.
I mean it is a 1st world problem... having 2 squads of Custodes for the Hold 1/2 is sufficient, but then again you're "only" ahead for like 80 pts which in custodes gives you not that much. And playing hold 2/3 at 1500 is really hard for Custodes anyway. So... I guess!
I am just confliced by the requirement of 3 HQs which basically means you're out of other fun stuff at that pts level.


Prosecutors get a 2+ save in cover, so they aren't made of paper. And again, if you also bring a unit of sagittarum, you can have them babysit a home objective instead should the need arise, because the objective/terrain placement would expose prosecutors too much.

You obviously don't HAVE to bring 3 HQs. They are just really, really good. Trajann for example now costs 160p...for that cost he brings so much to the table, it's hard to pass up.

You can play 100 sister models and 6 rhinos if you want and it wouldn't be a terrible list.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






I disagree with the paper.
They're still 5W at T3. A 2+ isnt what it used to be.. it would be a no-brainer if they stood in no mans land, but if I can take away 5 VP and force the enemy to recommit a 150+ unit to backline duty, I am so going to strike that obvious weak spot. It might be not points efficient in the literal sense, but it will draw forces away and bind them on the obj that your opp obviously doesnt want to commit.
And considering you may need to hold 2 at the min, 3 at the worst having 1 Squad of custodes for that job is simply insufficient.

Now, in my pod we all agree to NOT use hold 2/3 at 1500 pts if I play stodes because you just cannot afford it. So I can get away with 1 Prosecutor squad, more depending on enemy. But all it takes is a tiny bit of artillery and those prosecutors turn into red mist...

Or just

Do we still have an intercept strat? I don't think we do? So how do you get those 11D6 flamers out there to shoot, if they're smart enough to DS something shooty?

Also, once you deploy 190pts on an objective, roundabout, you run into even more pts problems... :(

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 Thairne wrote:
I disagree with the paper.
They're still 5W at T3. A 2+ isnt what it used to be.. it would be a no-brainer if they stood in no mans land, but if I can take away 5 VP and force the enemy to recommit a 150+ unit to backline duty, I am so going to strike that obvious weak spot. It might be not points efficient in the literal sense, but it will draw forces away and bind them on the obj that your opp obviously doesnt want to commit.
And considering you may need to hold 2 at the min, 3 at the worst having 1 Squad of custodes for that job is simply insufficient.

Now, in my pod we all agree to NOT use hold 2/3 at 1500 pts if I play stodes because you just cannot afford it. So I can get away with 1 Prosecutor squad, more depending on enemy. But all it takes is a tiny bit of artillery and those prosecutors turn into red mist...

Or just

Do we still have an intercept strat? I don't think we do? So how do you get those 11D6 flamers out there to shoot, if they're smart enough to DS something shooty?

Also, once you deploy 190pts on an objective, roundabout, you run into even more pts problems... :(


There's no rule in listbuliding. I get your points and if you feel that prosecutors holding a backfield objective would be a liability, then go the patrol route. Play less HQs, get one squad of sagittarium to hold your backline where they can theoretically still contribute via shooting. That way you have enough points left to go ham on your elite and fast attack slots.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
HQ or Elite/FA.
Cant have your cake AND eat it too...

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Twisting Tzeentch Horror






Went 5-0 with the old shadowkeepers at the Nottingham GT this weekend. 8th placing out of 307. I'm gonna miss -1str on the telemons haha

After seeing all the previews of CA, I'm loving the place we are at right now. Almost all of the armies close to us in terms of competitive power get worse due to nerfs to key units across the board, while we get TONS better (both pts and new rules)

A wealth of very flexible options are available to us due to the terrific internal balance of the new book, and the army just seems like loads and loads of fun now. Excited to leave behind the shadowkeepers archetype and try a bit more experimentation

 insaniak wrote:

You can choose to focus on the parts of a hobby that make you unhappy, or you can choose to focus on the parts that you enjoy.
 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Had a think
I actually believe that the Allarus Captain Yeetus is a good tool to shore up the prosecutor weakness.
If someone insists of DSing in and makes the charge, you can just yeet him in there and deliver fat, juicy, golden justice to the interloper, all the while bringing more bodies to the table.
He'll be stuck there probably for the rest of the game, but that's still better than losing 5-15 VP if you dont have something else nearby that can assist (which one probably wont, considering the low unit count)

I think I came up with a list I can like.
It's build vs an expected melee army like Space Wolves, so I made decisions based on that.

vs a ranged army, choices would obviously be different..

Spoiler:
b]Detachment Type / Shield Host:[/b] Adeptus Custodes, Shadowkeepers

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, 3. Superior Creation, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians
3x Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Misericordia, Solerite Power Gauntlet

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought:
Arachnus Storm Cannon
Telemon Caestus

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/23 21:20:48


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 Thairne wrote:
Had a think
I actually believe that the Allarus Captain Yeetus is a good tool to shore up the prosecutor weakness.
If someone insists of DSing in and makes the charge, you can just yeet him in there and deliver fat, juicy, golden justice to the interloper, all the while bringing more bodies to the table.
He'll be stuck there probably for the rest of the game, but that's still better than losing 5-15 VP if you dont have something else nearby that can assist (which one probably wont, considering the low unit count)

I think I came up with a list I can like.
It's build vs an expected melee army like Space Wolves, so I made decisions based on that.

vs a ranged army, choices would obviously be different..

Spoiler:
b]Detachment Type / Shield Host:[/b] Adeptus Custodes, Shadowkeepers

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, 3. Superior Creation, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians
3x Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Misericordia, Solerite Power Gauntlet

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought:
Arachnus Storm Cannon
Telemon Caestus


Cool list, space wolves player is going to hate playing against that shadowkeepers list. Blade champ is going to run through every space wolves character and fight last plus - 1 attack is going to hurt them a lot in general.

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/23 22:01:38


 
   
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You know....i never really thought about it, but a bike captain with the auric aquillas is basically gonna guarentee us an action turn one in our enemies deployment zone if you plan on doing that type of action.

Tak conservoi stance 1 and he can just advance 34-35" deep into enemy territory and preform an action. Put Superior creation and radiant mantle on him and hes almost impossible to kill in one turn as well, since you can AGA and EA on him in both the shooting and fighting phase for fairly cheap.

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I dunno about percentages, but I think GK or any psyker heavy army is gonna have a fun time making that list lose. A Squad of GK Terminators will eat that backfield for lunch.
   
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 Eihnlazer wrote:
You know....i never really thought about it, but a bike captain with the auric aquillas is basically gonna guarentee us an action turn one in our enemies deployment zone if you plan on doing that type of action.

Tak conservoi stance 1 and he can just advance 34-35" deep into enemy territory and preform an action. Put Superior creation and radiant mantle on him and hes almost impossible to kill in one turn as well, since you can AGA and EA on him in both the shooting and fighting phase for fairly cheap.


That's a neat trick. And if you bring an Allarus Captain with Praetorian Plate you can then probably yeet him towards your bike captain. So your opponent now has to deal with two super tough characters in his backfield.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno about percentages, but I think GK or any psyker heavy army is gonna have a fun time making that list lose. A Squad of GK Terminators will eat that backfield for lunch.


Most GK don't take terminators. Maybe they will now because DK got nerfed but it's mostly DK + Interceptor spam from them lately.

My experience, and I run a lot of bikes usually, has been that anyone who wants to focus heavily on my DZ just swaps as I take their DZ to compensate.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Tiberias wrote:

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.


Fair point. My thinking was that the Allarus Captain will not be targetable in the turn he yeets in anyway as he was neither charged nor performed a HI. The Bladechampion will have to deal with the escorting unit of the character, like Thunderwolf Cavalry. And they can definately smash him up bad. So I figured he would need it more to do better than trade (with the I die, I fight strat).

Like I said, this list is focused on melee armies.
Against Psyker armies you'd require a totally different list and not Shadowkeepers. Just as you would play a different list against a shooty army.This is not TAC by any means

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 10:59:58


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 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.


Fair point. My thinking was that the Allarus Captain will not be targetable in the turn he yeets in anyway as he was neither charged nor performed a HI. The Bladechampion will have to deal with the escorting unit of the character, like Thunderwolf Cavalry. And they can definately smash him up bad. So I figured he would need it more to do better than trade (with the I die, I fight strat).

Like I said, this list is focused on melee armies.
Against Psyker armies you'd require a totally different list and not Shadowkeepers. Just as you would play a different list against a shooty army.This is not TAC by any means


If you are worried of the blade champ getting killed by thunder wolf cavalry with storm hammers remember that one: it would be quite a big investment for your opponent to divert a full squad of them to kill a character that costs less than half of the unit. And second that if you spend 2cp for transhuman and emperors auspice, they probably won't even kill him. And if you want to really make sure that your blade champ can tank these space wolves units, should the need arise after he killed one of their characters, then give him the eagle's eye for that once per game 3++. That way he'll 100% tank those thunder wolves depending on how many CP you want to spend on him.

Mathhammer guys please correct but a 5man squad of thunder wolves with -1 attack from shadowkeepers are going to do about 1,4 unsaved wounds on the blade champ with their thunder hammers (if you throw transhuman and auspice on him).
If you pop the eagle's eye for the 3++ it goes down to about 0,9 unsaved wounds.

I still think the blade champ doesn't need the 5+ FnP as much as the Allarus Captain could benefit from it. Correct me if I'm wrong though or if I overlooked something.

But again as I said, personal preference.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Fair point again.
I think I'm overly scared of Thunderwolves because those really hurt with all the buffs, extra attacks (although negated) and flat 3 in that special case.
According to mathhammer, they have a 12% chance to kill him - that is if I dont take a CP reroll for that final failed save, which lowers it even further.
So you're right. The Captain can probably make better use of the FNP

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