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What is an "infernal master?" I don't recognize that one. Is that going to be our new model release?

 xeen wrote:
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/Mf3Ja5A

From N&R thread. Notice all vehicles get inferno bolters. Not game breaking but nice. Enlightened down to 6 model units. Sucks as I have 9. Oh well. Command stuff looks cool.

Thank you again !

Maybe a silly question but do we know what are Legion Commands ?

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/Mf3Ja5A

From N&R thread. Notice all vehicles get inferno bolters. Not game breaking but nice. Enlightened down to 6 model units. Sucks as I have 9. Oh well. Command stuff looks cool.

Thank you again !

Maybe a silly question but do we know what are Legion Commands ?

No problem. TS is my main army which I have been playing Tzeentch CSM like a TS army since the beginning, so I am really into getting the info. We don't know what the Legion Commands do yet but certainly they are upgrade abilities. The top one seems like it might be something to improve nearby Rubrics which would be awesome. It is just nice, as was expected, to get some more upgrades to our characters in such a character-centric army.

I am using these new points to map out my lists (Magnus and non-Magnus) and I am liking how much I can put in even with the increases. I am really hoping the 2w/3w for Rubrics and SoT make a big difference. I want to get a game in and have my opponent let me use these points but 2/3w. Even though that will not be a real test (lots of new rules coming) I think it will give a good idea of what we will be able to do.

Also, Magnus went down 15 points. Hopefully he will get the Morty treatment (3 WL traits, improved states etc.) and he really need a drop anyway, but I a bit worried he might still not be viable if the lowered his points.

Exiting things all around for sure ! Let's hope for a swift codex arrival !

I hope the point increase for the Mutalith Vortex Beast means an interesting rework for them and not a straight nerf.
They are by far my favourite unit in my army ! Now, I just need to finish painting them

Yea I would think they will probably change the Beasts. That doesn't mean they will be good though so we will see. I am hoping that Enlightened will have improved weapons. The bow really needs either another shot or better damage and they need a bit more survive-ability. I really like those guys (but they are so fragile to carry around). Right now they die too fast to justify even 18 points, and don't do a whole lot of damage either. I wish they would have broken them up to skyfires and enlightened like in AOS, then at least we would kind of have another fast attack. I am also disappointed that they didn't port over possessed. I think you could fit them into the fluff.

At least the SoB book is coming this week. I did not think it would be that fast, so only Orks and maybe GK before us. It would be really nice if Orks came out at the end of this month, and we got a psychic July with TS and GK. Pray to Tzeentch!!!!

 xeen wrote:
At least the SoB book is coming this week. I did not think it would be that fast, so only Orks and maybe GK before us. It would be really nice if Orks came out at the end of this month, and we got a psychic July with TS and GK. Pray to Tzeentch!!!!

Yep ! May the winds of change blow in our favor

While I'm here: I was going to try running Tzaangor Enlightened. Two units of 6. One with Fatecaster great bows the other with divining spears. Do you think it's a good ratio to run in a list with two Mutaliths and a bunch of Tzaangors ? Or rather, do you have any advices as to how field them ? Like how to position them and such. Sorry if it's not the place to ask.

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:
At least the SoB book is coming this week. I did not think it would be that fast, so only Orks and maybe GK before us. It would be really nice if Orks came out at the end of this month, and we got a psychic July with TS and GK. Pray to Tzeentch!!!!

Yep ! May the winds of change blow in our favor

While I'm here: I was going to try running Tzaangor Enlightened. Two units of 6. One with Fatecaster great bows the other with divining spears. Do you think it's a good ratio to run in a list with two Mutaliths and a bunch of Tzaangors ? Or rather, do you have any advices as to how field them ? Like how to position them and such. Sorry if it's not the place to ask.

This is the absolute right place to ask. I had a list that was nothing but Daemon princes leading all Tgors, Enlightened, Tgor Shaman with Tzeentch daemon allies. I called it my "AOS in 40k list" since every unit can be used in both games. It was fun, but not very competitive.

As for going forward it will really depend on how the Enlightened are improved. Currently at 18 points per model they die to easily. They are Tough 4, 2 wounds with a 5++. Even light small arms shred them. I also have both types, Spears and Bows. Neither do a whole lot of damage even with the auto would on sixes. They are also really expensive models price per point. At this point, I think I would hold off before getting them to see if they get the improvements they need in the dex. If they are the same, then running two units of 6 would be fun, but is not going to be really competitive I think.

The Tgors have the squad max lowered to 20 from 30 in the new points update. So it will be harder to make a good blob of them. At 7 points they are really cheap if you want to run 20 with a horn it is 150. And even without any improvements they will still be pretty good for what they do at that price. I plan on making a balanced list, but my main focus will be Rubrics and SoT, supported by the other units. Also I plan on bringing at least 5 spell casts in any list, as I think they are going to ramp up the magic to 11.

Again hopefully we will know sooner rather than later.

 xeen wrote:

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:
At least the SoB book is coming this week. I did not think it would be that fast, so only Orks and maybe GK before us. It would be really nice if Orks came out at the end of this month, and we got a psychic July with TS and GK. Pray to Tzeentch!!!!

Yep ! May the winds of change blow in our favor

While I'm here: I was going to try running Tzaangor Enlightened. Two units of 6. One with Fatecaster great bows the other with divining spears. Do you think it's a good ratio to run in a list with two Mutaliths and a bunch of Tzaangors ? Or rather, do you have any advices as to how field them ? Like how to position them and such. Sorry if it's not the place to ask.

This is the absolute right place to ask. I had a list that was nothing but Daemon princes leading all Tgors, Enlightened, Tgor Shaman with Tzeentch daemon allies. I called it my "AOS in 40k list" since every unit can be used in both games. It was fun, but not very competitive.

As for going forward it will really depend on how the Enlightened are improved. Currently at 18 points per model they die to easily. They are Tough 4, 2 wounds with a 5++. Even light small arms shred them. I also have both types, Spears and Bows. Neither do a whole lot of damage even with the auto would on sixes. They are also really expensive models price per point. At this point, I think I would hold off before getting them to see if they get the improvements they need in the dex. If they are the same, then running two units of 6 would be fun, but is not going to be really competitive I think.

The Tgors have the squad max lowered to 20 from 30 in the new points update. So it will be harder to make a good blob of them. At 7 points they are really cheap if you want to run 20 with a horn it is 150. And even without any improvements they will still be pretty good for what they do at that price. I plan on making a balanced list, but my main focus will be Rubrics and SoT, supported by the other units. Also I plan on bringing at least 5 spell casts in any list, as I think they are going to ramp up the magic to 11.

Again hopefully we will know sooner rather than later.

Yes ! At least if I get into AoS I'll have more then enough to get started (Maybe)
I guess for now I'll finish my paints and bases before buying anything new. We can only speculate for now.

Btw. I noticed in the list that we'll have two Predators. Does it mean they'll split our current Pred in two option: one with the autocanon and the other with twin laz ?
Also, I noticed that our Deamon prince and cultist are now "Thousand Sons Daemon Prince" and "Thousand Sons Cultists" respectively. Is that normal for 9e ? Or does that mean they'll be specific to us in some way ?

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 xeen wrote:
At least the SoB book is coming this week. I did not think it would be that fast, so only Orks and maybe GK before us. It would be really nice if Orks came out at the end of this month, and we got a psychic July with TS and GK. Pray to Tzeentch!!!!

Yep ! May the winds of change blow in our favor

While I'm here: I was going to try running Tzaangor Enlightened. Two units of 6. One with Fatecaster great bows the other with divining spears. Do you think it's a good ratio to run in a list with two Mutaliths and a bunch of Tzaangors ? Or rather, do you have any advices as to how field them ? Like how to position them and such. Sorry if it's not the place to ask.

This is the absolute right place to ask. I had a list that was nothing but Daemon princes leading all Tgors, Enlightened, Tgor Shaman with Tzeentch daemon allies. I called it my "AOS in 40k list" since every unit can be used in both games. It was fun, but not very competitive.

As for going forward it will really depend on how the Enlightened are improved. Currently at 18 points per model they die to easily. They are Tough 4, 2 wounds with a 5++. Even light small arms shred them. I also have both types, Spears and Bows. Neither do a whole lot of damage even with the auto would on sixes. They are also really expensive models price per point. At this point, I think I would hold off before getting them to see if they get the improvements they need in the dex. If they are the same, then running two units of 6 would be fun, but is not going to be really competitive I think.

The Tgors have the squad max lowered to 20 from 30 in the new points update. So it will be harder to make a good blob of them. At 7 points they are really cheap if you want to run 20 with a horn it is 150. And even without any improvements they will still be pretty good for what they do at that price. I plan on making a balanced list, but my main focus will be Rubrics and SoT, supported by the other units. Also I plan on bringing at least 5 spell casts in any list, as I think they are going to ramp up the magic to 11.

Again hopefully we will know sooner rather than later.

Yes ! At least if I get into AoS I'll have more then enough to get started (Maybe)
I guess for now I'll finish my paints and bases before buying anything new. We can only speculate for now.

Btw. I noticed in the list that we'll have two Predators. Does it mean they'll split our current Pred in two option: one with the autocanon and the other with twin laz ?
Also, I noticed that our Deamon prince and cultist are now "Thousand Sons Daemon Prince" and "Thousand Sons Cultists" respectively. Is that normal for 9e ? Or does that mean they'll be specific to us in some way ?

On the predators, yes. Those names are the two used for the two variants by the loyalist marines, so its just bringing us ba back into line with them.

The name change is pretty normal, thereason to to add the "thousand sons" onto unit titles is to "decouple" them from their other iterations, so you can adjust the points and powers for each to better balance the army.

It means that if they do something funky with the standard CSM versions, like jack the points cost because of perceived value in a CSM list, it doesn't automatically mean our version is affected, unless they actually want it to.

It's the same reason why loyalist marines have units armed with bolt weapons with similar profiles and different names.

Anyway, I'll ask again, do we have any info on this "infernal master "? Some sort of deamonsmith who buffs demonic units?

They break the predator into two units (AC/TLC) like every other edition just to put them back as dual options again one codex later, so I would not worry about it. I have see that like two or three times.

There is no info on the infernal master yet. So it really could be anything (other than a fast attack or elite choice which is what we needed lol).

Thank you !

Yeah I guess it makes sense for the renaming scheme. Though it would be nice if they did something interesting with the cultists (psyker cultists ? Daemonic ritual ?) but I guess it's not that likely.
For the Infernal master, I wonder which role it might take as a HQ we don't already have in our army. A Demonsmith to take care of our Engines ? Something like a master of possession ? Who knows ?

Punishing the soap with daemon Tzeentch will be a mistake. We have not enough units in the army to be competitive. Sorcerers must be greaking elite

Kebabcito wrote:
Punishing the soap with daemon Tzeentch will be a mistake. We have not enough units in the army to be competitive. Sorcerers must be greaking elite

you refering to the warptime nerf? are tzeentch deamons dependant on that single power to make them work? or is thier some other change i missed?

and unit count isnt everything. Custodes have, like, 13 total datasheets, with 17 if you count the sisters. we have 22* core sheets if you discount deamons. and custodes are competing just fine. our problem isnt lack of options, its a lack of good options.


*those tallies are off the top of my head, so i probs forgot a unit or two, but my point still stands that unit count alone is not what makes custodes good or 1k sons bad. and im not counting forge world stuff, which i admit the custodes tend to use heavily, but considering the sheer number of funky horus heresy relic vehicles we can theoretically use.....

Kebabcito wrote:
Punishing the soap with daemon Tzeentch will be a mistake. We have not enough units in the army to be competitive. Sorcerers must be greaking elite

I would probably wait until the codex before any doom and gloom. I mean I am upset about GW not adding at least one more fast/elite unit to our army (I put aside $1000 to buy new stuff. GWs loss). But I mean if say we have a way to give everyone 2++ or make inferno bolters strength 5, or a whole other host of special rules they could give us to make us competitive or even broken.

Personally I think when it is all said and done in typical rock paper scissor style, we will annihilate elite or vehicle heavy armies (I think MW spam is going to be OP with our army, not that I am championing that) and we are going to be crushed by Gery Knights (they will have enough denies to stop our spells) and crushed by hoard armies (spells less effective against cheap units and we don't have enough guns to kill many many bodies).

xerxeskingofking wrote:

Kebabcito wrote:
Punishing the soap with daemon Tzeentch will be a mistake. We have not enough units in the army to be competitive. Sorcerers must be greaking elite

you refering to the warptime nerf? are tzeentch deamons dependant on that single power to make them work? or is thier some other change i missed?

and unit count isnt everything. Custodes have, like, 13 total datasheets, with 17 if you count the sisters. we have 22* core sheets if you discount deamons. and custodes are competing just fine. our problem isnt lack of options, its a lack of good options.


*those tallies are off the top of my head, so i probs forgot a unit or two, but my point still stands that unit count alone is not what makes custodes good or 1k sons bad. and im not counting forge world stuff, which i admit the custodes tend to use heavily, but considering the sheer number of funky horus heresy relic vehicles we can theoretically use.....

DG codex give contagions only if all army is DEATH GUARD.

I think the funny thing of those armys were the soap with daemons (nurgle, tzeentch...).Otherwise they are fething marines, as ALWAYS

I think running pure TSons will be the go to over any form of soup with Tzeentch Daemons. You'll still be able to run the soup, but i expect you'd miss out on things like the +6" range to powers (if that stays).

In regards to the Infernal Master, the only thing i've heard is that someone who tested them pretty much always runs 1 in all his lists now, and actually takes 2 most of the time. Obv take with a pinch of salt as playtest to rules =/=, but if it stays that way i believe that 99% of all future pure TSons lists will be 2 or 3 detachments strong.

Daemon Princes dropping some points is pretty nice, especially as they've (imo) had a pretty big drop off in terms of table time, however, if the Termie Sorcerer's Familiar has gone/is replaced by a strat, then they will probably fall out of many lists as well.

Tzaangors. Still not feeling very "warm and fuzzy" about them right now. 70 points vs 105 for Rubrics just doesn't feel cheap enough. That said, 140 points for 20 models that exist only in your list to protect your Characters turn 1 is potentially an option. However, i'm leaning more towards Rhinos. 85 points for a transport rocking 8 S4 -2 shots is pretty interesting, especially as i think Duplicity is going to take a hit slightly. This does all depend on what the Infernal Master actually does and whether or not it affects Tzaangors.

I think the Risen Rubricae and the Duplicity WL trait combo are going to get hit in a similar way to how it works in the new Admech Codex - with the WL trait only allowing you to redeploy units that are wholly within your deployment zone. Now that the max squad size is dropping to 10, every time you use the Risen strat and don't get 1st turn that squad is dead. I think we might see it instead being used to setup a 5 man squad in deep cover with the simple aim of performing some early table quarter actions. (If the strat remains that is).

The new legion command upgrades are also going to be pretty interesting. The fact that we have 9 is fantastic, though i fully expect 6 or 7 of them to never be used outside of specifically designed lists.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the changes are and what they do to Magnus.

The newest FAQ just changed it so that summoned daemons no longer eliminate your "entire army has the ,<XXXX> keyword" so at least summoning daemons could be done in a pure Tson list. That could be interesting to drop in flamers as I have done previously (although if warp flamers are 12" then maybe no point to that) bring in some pink or blue horrors in the back field for objective holding, or bring in some Screamers for CC help (though they are not that great at the moment). Probably not going to summon a LoC though, and those are only remotely useful with the exalted traits anyway.

Yea there is so much up in the air right now I don't even know how to think about it. I mean if there is a +1 Invul save stratagem that can be combined with weaver for a 3++ on Tzgors that would be bonkers good. Or if they improve "all is dust" or at least have WL traits/relics/commands that improve it that may shift opinions. Right now I am not buying anything and waiting until the book to see if I need to get anything (although I have a lot already).

I would guess the new HQ is going to be good, as they want to sell it (though they did not do that with the DG one). I will probably wait to get it third party off ebay.

Hey guys,
I Play a 1500P Games against orcs tomorrow. My List will be:



My gameplan is to try to hold my backfield with the 2 troups of RM. The Rest trys to Storm the Field.
Any tips for me?

Gesundheit wrote:
Hey guys,
I Play a 1500P Games against orcs tomorrow. My List will be:

Spoiler:

Supreme Command Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons)
Configuration
Cults of the Legion
Selections: Cult of Time
Detachment Command Cost
Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander
Magnus the Red
Selections: Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Temporal Manipulation, Warlord
Battalion Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons)
Configuration
Battle Size
Selections: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Cults of the Legion
Selections: Cult of Time
Detachment Command Cost
HQ
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Selections: Magister, Malefic talon, Wings
Exalted Sorcerer
Selections: Inferno Bolt Pistol
Troops
Rubric Marines
Aspiring Sorcerer
Selections: Inferno Bolt Pistol
4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun
Selections: 4x Inferno boltgun
Rubric Marines
Aspiring Sorcerer
Selections: Inferno Bolt Pistol
4x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun
Selections: 4x Inferno boltgun
Rubric Marines
Aspiring Sorcerer
Selections: Inferno Bolt Pistol
8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun
Selections: 8x Inferno boltgun
Rubric Marine w/ Soulreaper cannon
Selections: Soulreaper cannon
Tzaangors
Selections: Brayhorn, Icon of Flame
Twistbray
Selections: Tzaangor blades
19x Tzaangor w/ Tzaangor blades
Selections: 19x Tzaangor blades

My gameplan is to try to hold my backfield with the 2 troups of RM. The Rest trys to Storm the Field.
Any tips for me?

Mate, that's hard to read list (not nicely formatted).

Don't know how your battle went but one thing that stands out is that more often that not people run defense buffs on Magnus (weaver/glamour) to keep him alive. Getting D3 wounds back is nothing compared to the number of wounds you prevent with +1 to invul or -1 to hit on Magnus.
Another thing that stands out is that you have 3 HQs but it looks like they have to stick together because you don't have enough units to screen them properly unless you bunch everything up.

Hey,

Yeah it wenn pretty Bad. Not because i couldnt protect my Champs, More like i couldnt Save anything.
2 troups of 10 Boys Killed 2 troups of RM with dakka. I Managed to get 10 wounds i did Not Save 1!
Dice are fair! :/ sometimes for the Enemy sometimes for you.
But beside That my List felt ok. I wouldnt change much in another 1500P Game besides cutting magnus and getting More bodies.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/19/introducing-the-thousand-sons-infernal-masters-who-forge-unholy-pacts-with-daemonkind/

New info on the new HQ ! Whoop whoop !

yhea, he seems to be a master of possession/ chalplin type character, with a "non psychic" set of abilites (6 mentioned, 2 previewed), which he has IN ADDITION to his regular psyker powers. the preview mentions "two expanded psychic disciplines in the thousands Sons codex". I'm guessing that means we have more than 6 powers per set. obviously one will be the updated lore of change, but i am curious as to wether the second one will be the lore of tzneetch shared with choas deamons, or the dark hereticus powers shared with mainstream CSM.

Yeah the intent here is definitely a combined Sorcerer/Dark Apostle, same way Exalteds are Sorcerer/Chaos Lords. They do seem to have solved the biggest issue with the Dark Apostle by making the range on his pacts pretty huge; 24" means he doesn't have to try to tag along whatever you plan on buffing with him necessarily.

Glad someone posted it up. Finally a TS preview for a book that should have already been released.

Yea the new infernal master is definitely our dark apostle. At 90 points for a dark apostle like ability AND being a psyker, that is pretty juicy. I don't think the deny overwatch is all that useful to TS (maybe a Tgor blob strike) and removing cover is pretty good, but not great. That plus 1 to the strength however is pretty sweet, especially with new T5 Orks, and if there is a +1 to wound strat/spell being able to wound even T8 units on a 4+ with inferno-bolters is going to be really powerful. And if the previous reviews for other factions are anything to go by, at least one of the missing four will probably be really really good.

Also I really like the model, very TS feel to it, although little pieces like those daemons attached tend to break easily so that might be a pain. I might just not put them on.

On the general book note, I think we have a while to wait. In the Ork warcom articles, there is a mention that the ork book won't be out until after the Orlando leg of the GT. That starts on August 13. So unless they are going to skip over Orks full release and go right to GK/TS, it looks like our book is not being released for at least another month. Very frustrating. And that means CSM/Daemons are even further out which double sucks.

 xeen wrote:
On the general book note, I think we have a while to wait. In the Ork warcom articles, there is a mention that the ork book won't be out until after the Orlando leg of the GT. That starts on August 13. So unless they are going to skip over Orks full release and go right to GK/TS, it looks like our book is not being released for at least another month. Very frustrating. And that means CSM/Daemons are even further out which double sucks.

Yes, sadly it looks like it. At least it looks like they'll drip feed us some info during summer.

I'm also curious about the expended discipline mentioned in the article. Let's hope it's some interesting stuff !

The way the disciplines are mentioned it sounds like the psychic disciplines might be going to 9x2 rather than 6x3 with the Tzeentch Daemons discipline getting cut. I'd be pretty fine with that personally since I'm not a huge fan of having a whole list that only daemon princes can use but it will suck to lose Gaze of Fate.

 xeen wrote:
Glad someone posted it up. Finally a TS preview for a book that should have already been released.

Yea the new infernal master is definitely our dark apostle. At 90 points for a dark apostle like ability AND being a psyker, that is pretty juicy. I don't think the deny overwatch is all that useful to TS (maybe a Tgor blob strike) and removing cover is pretty good, but not great. That plus 1 to the strength however is pretty sweet, especially with new T5 Orks, and if there is a +1 to wound strat/spell being able to wound even T8 units on a 4+ with inferno-bolters is going to be really powerful. And if the previous reviews for other factions are anything to go by, at least one of the missing four will probably be really really good.

Also I really like the model, very TS feel to it, although little pieces like those daemons attached tend to break easily so that might be a pain. I might just not put them on.

On the general book note, I think we have a while to wait. In the Ork warcom articles, there is a mention that the ork book won't be out until after the Orlando leg of the GT. That starts on August 13. So unless they are going to skip over Orks full release and go right to GK/TS, it looks like our book is not being released for at least another month. Very frustrating. And that means CSM/Daemons are even further out which double sucks.

Ignoring a -1 to hit and a +1 to save seems pretty major (because you also ignore things like Dense cover, not just light cover)

Oh yes. I forgot about ignoring dense. Your right. That is good. Hopefully the rest will be as good as these two

Hi ! I was building an Exalted Sorcerers set and while looking for infos online I've seen the option to outfit them with two power swords. Apparently it was an option on the digital codex ?
Anyone knows if the option is still legal ? I can't find confirmation anywhere.

Sorry if the answer is obvious !

The dual power sword loadout is legal and gives the sorcerer an extra attack, yeah. It's in the FAQ iirc, since they did forget about it for the book's original print.