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 _Ness wrote:
dont forget the 2CP vanilla pass morale stratagem in the BRB.


EDIT: Quick question: Where do i find the limitation for a stratagem that i can only use it 1 time per phase

It should be in the description of matched play

Hmmm cant find it

BRB. : 242
COMMAND POINTS
When you build a Battle-forged army, it will have a number of Command Points. These can be spent to utilise Stratagems – each of which represents a strategic or tactical asset available to your army. All Battle-forged armies start with 3 Command Points. The simplest way to accrue more Command Points is to take more Detachments – many of which increase your total number of Command Points. You can spend Command Points to use a Stratagem before or during a battle. Each time you use a Stratagem, reduce your Command Points total by the appropriateamount. If you do not have enough Command Points for a specific Stratagem, you cannot use it. Unless other wise noted, you can use the same Stratagem multiple times during the course of a battle. The different Stratagems available to players depend on the mission they are playing. Players can always use the three Stratagems presented below, but some missions, battlezones and expansions may introduce additional Stratagems to your battles.

To keep this on topic:

Anyone tried a advancing nephrek monolith for objective grabbing and blocking LoS?

Necron_Mason wrote:
I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP

Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...

 skoffs wrote:

Necron_Mason wrote:
I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP

Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...

It may be an ITC or some tournament rule. It's definltely not in the main rulebook.

 skoffs wrote:

Necron_Mason wrote:
I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP

Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...

Neither GW or FLG have made that a rule, but I know of some smaller tourneys that have. It was bandied about in response to Tau Commander spam and the cultist sorcerer lists that happened right when 8th was released.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
That's the main problem with the sniper barge- having to build around it. It uses up your relic and warlord trait which are needed for other things quite often.

Mephrit is great for our troops and they like to have a VoD so that costs a CP. Warriors really like mephrit but if you're using warrior blobs you need the ignore morale warlord trait.

Need is a strong word. The warlord trait and relic can be useful elsewhere, but it really comes down to your builds. I rarely use warriors other than a unit for distraction or objective holding, so I'm not so concerned with keeping them around in the face of concentrated fire, as that is futile. If you are running multiple warrior blobs then yeah, I can see putting the effort in to keep them durable. It's also not really difficult to work one into a list as I think they are well worth the -1 cp for an auxiliary detachment.

 _Ness wrote:
Hmmm cant find it

BRB. : 242
COMMAND POINTS
When you build a Battle-forged army, it will have a number of Command Points. These can be spent to utilise Stratagems – each of which represents a strategic or tactical asset available to your army. All Battle-forged armies start with 3 Command Points. The simplest way to accrue more Command Points is to take more Detachments – many of which increase your total number of Command Points. You can spend Command Points to use a Stratagem before or during a battle. Each time you use a Stratagem, reduce your Command Points total by the appropriateamount. If you do not have enough Command Points for a specific Stratagem, you cannot use it. Unless other wise noted, you can use the same Stratagem multiple times during the course of a battle. The different Stratagems available to players depend on the mission they are playing. Players can always use the three Stratagems presented below, but some missions, battlezones and expansions may introduce additional Stratagems to your battles.

To keep this on topic:

Anyone tried a advancing nephrek monolith for objective grabbing and blocking LoS?

Look on page 215 of the BRB.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Necron_Mason wrote:
I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP

Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...

Neither GW or FLG have made that a rule, but I know of some smaller tourneys that have. It was bandied about in response to Tau Commander spam and the cultist sorcerer lists that happened right when 8th was released.

Yeah, its more of a Tourney thing were they don't allow duplicate attachments.

Xachariah wrote:

 meleti wrote:
Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..

This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.

The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.

All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.

Xachariah wrote:I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.

I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.

Lessons
- Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat.
- Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament.
- Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP.
- Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24".
- Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job.
- Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play.
- Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part.
- I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necron_Mason wrote:
Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?

IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.

Thanks for the information, always good to hear. I'm fairly nonplussed by the results since it was pre-FAQ and things should look different going forward, a lot of the things we were weak against are phasing out and we should have a slightly equal or easier time against the new meta.

If not Mephrit, what will you go for? I've been running Sautekh mostly for the Warlord Trait and Methodical Destruction, but lately I've been thinking of Nephrekh with a Sautekh Warlord (especially Imotekh since he can still MWBD things, though other options are good). I agree Mephrit is not as insane as people thought they would be.

I think 3 units of Destroyers is overkill. I do want to try out 2 like you said, they're insanely efficient and can really cut down the enemy in ways they might not suspect.

I also agree Wraiths can end up disappointing, especially if you whiff the save rolls for them, but they play an important role as a way to tie up hitty enemy units and a fast way to threaten important shooting units that don't want to be in combat. I think 10 is too many, I generally run my unit of 6 and call it there.

To get the wheels turning, what do you guys think about adding a section the front page about specific matchup tips?

vs. Tau
The first step in beating Tau is to Kill the marker lights, you won't get them all, since they'll be hiding some marker lights on sergeants and the like, but make sure pathfinders and marker light drones are dead as soon as possible. Tau generally have a low BS, and marker lights give them a lot of benefits to shooting though the ones we have to worry about are reroll ones (1 marker light) and +1 to hit (5 marker lights).

Remember that Drones are a separate unit, and can be targeted individually, so it's generally a good idea to clear out nearby drones with warriors/immortals before shooting with units like destroyers. Drones also have bad leadership, but the unit size is usually small enough for it to not matter.

Since we don't have abilities like null zone, you'll just have to accept that sometimes a riptide isn't a good target. If your opponent is running the branching nova charge stratagem (and they will every round) often your best bet is to let it cook itself for a few rounds before you commit. Riptides take a mortal wound from rolling any 1s on their ion accelerator and from nova charging. If they don't have any marker lights you can expect that they will have lost between 4 and 6 wounds by turn three, which makes it easier to push them into lower wound profiles.

Multicharge like it's your job. Thanks to the greater good nearby units will overwatch you anyway, so might as well declare charges against them as well, in case you get a good roll, or plan on using blood rites.

Split your wraiths, I'm not one to tailor lists, but if you are worried about tau this is a pretty easy way to frustrate them. Tau depend on marker lights to alpha which is a very finite resource, so it's harder for them to engage two units than it is to engage one larger unit. This will interfere with the repair protocols stratagem, which may or may not matter at all depending on matchup.

Mind your screens, Tau have some great deep striking/infiltrating units, so you need to be careful to not expose your HQ. If you have an HQ and you feel confident in it's survival (A CCB with the lighting field relic) you can bait the assassination attempt by hanging back slightly, and then taking out the deep strikers.

 Grimgold wrote:
To get the wheels turning, what do you guys think about adding a section the front page about specific matchup tips?

I'd be on board.
If you guys write them up I'll add them to the top post.

I have only done this once, but vs tau the obelisk is simply deadly. Drop it in, use the stratagem to do mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 6+, then hit the drones first. That should kill half of them right there. Then hit the units, normally the player will allocate any wounds to the drones again taking out most of the rest. The obelisk will also become a fire magnet after that, so that gives you basically a free turn to not have to worry about your stuff getting targeted so move your stuff like your getting a free turn. Yes it's expensive and only really useful vs heavy flyer unit based armies but the look on your opponents face when he realized he lost most his drones and some of he suits just took wounds is priceless.

Turn 2 deepstrike does hurt it a bit though.

Deceiver is especially nice vs Tau so you don't have to foot slog through those 36" range he is likely to have on his fire warriors, Deceiver and Veil might get you quite a few units up quickly to negate his range advantage


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
I have only done this once, but vs tau the obelisk is simply deadly. Drop it in, use the stratagem to do mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 6+, then hit the drones first. That should kill half of them right there. Then hit the units, normally the player will allocate any wounds to the drones again taking out most of the rest. The obelisk will also become a fire magnet after that, so that gives you basically a free turn to not have to worry about your stuff getting targeted so move your stuff like your getting a free turn. Yes it's expensive and only really useful vs heavy flyer unit based armies but the look on your opponents face when he realized he lost most his drones and some of he suits just took wounds is priceless.

Turn 2 deepstrike does hurt it a bit though.

Also the thing has awesome LOS due to its size and can help finish off those drones with it's teslas

Tau also don't have an abundance of -1 to hit modifiers, making Tesla pretty effective vs them. Destroyers should have the range and movement to get to most targets, but are going to need to camp in cover.

Echoing the "kill all markerlights" mention

So what would be the viability of a Star God Pantheon list? 3x Tesseract Vault, 3x Transcendent C'Tan, and one of each named.

 EnTyme wrote:
So what would be the viability of a Star God Pantheon list? 3x Tesseract Vault, 3x Transcendent C'Tan, and one of each named.

So no less than 6 T Vault kits, expensive fun

Edit: nr of kits

Requizen wrote:
Thanks for the information, always good to hear. I'm fairly nonplussed by the results since it was pre-FAQ and things should look different going forward, a lot of the things we were weak against are phasing out and we should have a slightly equal or easier time against the new meta.

If not Mephrit, what will you go for? I've been running Sautekh mostly for the Warlord Trait and Methodical Destruction, but lately I've been thinking of Nephrekh with a Sautekh Warlord (especially Imotekh since he can still MWBD things, though other options are good). I agree Mephrit is not as insane as people thought they would be.

I think 3 units of Destroyers is overkill. I do want to try out 2 like you said, they're insanely efficient and can really cut down the enemy in ways they might not suspect.

I also agree Wraiths can end up disappointing, especially if you whiff the save rolls for them, but they play an important role as a way to tie up hitty enemy units and a fast way to threaten important shooting units that don't want to be in combat. I think 10 is too many, I generally run my unit of 6 and call it there.

Mephrit's weakness wasn't in the dynastic code, but in my inability to leverage it properly. A bunch of ObSec troops don't get to dictate when you're within 12". I'd probably move my main detachment to Sautekh, move Mephrit to an outrider, and drop Novokh.

Regarding not like wraiths but liking Destroyers, I'm considering running Destroyers (and Tomb Blades) as wraiths. Against gunlines, fly the Tomb Blades / Destroyers forward, shoot enemies up, then charge with them. 18 wounds at 3+ is better than wraiths if the enemy doesn't have melee AP, since you get +2". Against assault, use them in layers to take charges and and shoot down the enemy (or just use their speed to stay out of melee entirely).

I'd have to playtest it though, since right now I'm just spitballing.

You'll soon run into better availability of AP though

The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

 skoffs wrote:
The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Actually its not a bad idea.
Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up.
They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.

I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.

Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?

Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?

Xachariah wrote:
I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.

I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.

Lessons
- Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat.
- Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament.
- Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP.
- Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24".
- Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job.
- Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play.
- Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part.
- I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necron_Mason wrote:
Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?

IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.

Right off the bat:
1) 1150pts for what? 18 models? You really seem low on model and vulnerable to multi wounds. Won't be able to clear out 60 cultist/other crap either.
2) Mephrit will shine on warriors / arks. LOADS of shot, praticaly double their AP effectiveness.
3) Immortal pride again will be useful for warrior blobs. Anything over 10+ minis that may have morale test.
4) Wraith are the worst punching combat unit we have, i posted the mathhammer some 30 pages back. They are durable, but also fire magnets. 550 points of flayed ones, lychguard, pretorians will deal more damage. I personnaly prefer scarabs to block and draw fire. Scarabs can also advance + charge and even RP, and i always blow one up for D3 MW, it draws attention. I really don't care about its offensive capabilities and don,t have to take a novokh detachment with them, nephrek fits them better. I swear, 8/10 games people waste their first turn trying to wipeout my scarabs, i just don't care!
5) No DDA?
6) 5 man immortals need sautekh stratagem. I did a number on tyranids whiping out 2 huge units with my 5X5 immo still standing. He didn't see that coming.

I'd say just increase your footprint by removing 6 destro or wraith and put more boots on the ground. Sautekh bataillon + nephrek outrider would be better too. Just my 2 cents.

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.

Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?

Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?

A scarab screen is a given. Or even a tomb blade screen. Something quick that can take a beating so the c'tan won't get immediately shot.
If you are taking a C'tan its because you want to dish out mortal wounds. So get them in a position to throw mortal wounds at something that really doesn't like mortal wounds.

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.

Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?

Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?

Nightbrigner you keep back unit somehting BIG comes in range, then you KILL it. Only Magnus can survive him. Also know that it's 200pts dedicated to killing big things, you need less DDA / destroyers in that case.
Deceiver, after his trick he becomes less good. You want to take him upward screened. Warriors + Ghost ark with characters in it is a good thing to grand illusion with him. Or he can just grand illusion destroyers or redeploy to take advantage of cover.

Still there are plenty of good C'Tan powers out there. Some for multi-units. Some for big units. Some for single strong target. Some for 3-4 wounds big models in squads. And there's a stratagem to throw an extra power every turn. So you get plenty of MW potential. Just use them wisely: vs targets that have high armor / invu save the rest of your army have trouble dealing with. I usually soften the target up with MW before finishing it with a charge or a big shot.

Edit: i really want to try both together.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Actually its not a bad idea.
Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up.
They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.

Agreed. It would depend on the situation, but by locking yourself in combat you are also giving up and overwatch shots that might be useful. Hard to say, more of a judgement based on the game conditions i think.

Xachariah wrote:Mephrit's weakness wasn't in the dynastic code, but in my inability to leverage it properly. A bunch of ObSec troops don't get to dictate when you're within 12". I'd probably move my main detachment to Sautekh, move Mephrit to an outrider, and drop Novokh.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Mephrit is a trap. It encourages you to get your shooty dudes into close distances. While we like Rapid Fire range, once you're inside that 12" mark, our troops generally just get shot and charged and die after. It's really hard to take advantage of it early unless you teleport/Deceiver, at which point you've split your forces and are probably in a bad position, unless you deck an important unit quickly. Nephrekh, Sautekh, and even Novokh can play to the strengths of the units without needing to get into risky positions, and have other strengths going for them as well.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Actually its not a bad idea.
Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up.
They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.

Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.

I think Mephrit seems like it would be good for things like ghost arks because of the fly rule....maybe even a monolith, if it weren't for the cost.
for troops I think you're just going to get caught in close combat and lose units.....if you used something like tomb blades that have fly you could potentially get on high structures for some protection from a charge......but it's too situational.

Mephrit seems to only be beneficial for very short periods of the game and specific situations. If I were going to use it I'd be stocking up on warriors and/or ghost arks.

Sautekh seems more applicable for larger portions of the game as it allows us more mobility while still being able to shoot....plus the warlord trait is useful.

I don't feel like any of our dynastic codes are outstanding. They have some cool features, but it seems to me that the stars of the show are in the stratagems.

I don't feel like the codes will make or break your army (barring the cc one) so long as you're smart about your stratagems and list building.

Requizen wrote:

Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.

Yes, because all enemy units have thunder hammers and terminator armor
Or you can charge that unit of hellblasters that you didn't quite kill off. Or stealth suits. You know, stuff that can't actually fight back or have been crippled in the shooting phase.

torblind wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
So what would be the viability of a Star God Pantheon list? 3x Tesseract Vault, 3x Transcendent C'Tan, and one of each named.

So no less than 6 T Vault kits, expensive fun

Edit: nr of kits

Yeah. It'd be crazy expensive, but if you're in a casual meta, they may let you run the vaults without the C'Tan glued to it, or you could work some eBay magic. Just think it could be a fun gimmick list to run. May cost me a friend or two, though.

Doctoralex wrote:I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.

Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?

Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?

Nightbringer is a part of my Deceiver bomb... turn #1 Threat Overload.
Deceiver, and Nightbringer for sure, Wraiths if I get a 3 or a 4... 10 tesla immortals if I luck out and get a 5 or a 6 on the Deceiver's roll (though I might hold the Immortals back depending on the opponents army.