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Oye! Read this article or you won't understand what I'm talking about.

Right, you've read that article? Good. That article did get me thinking, 'when everyone is a nerd, is no one a nerd?' I run an RPG club at my school, and while I've tried to indoctrinate some of my friends (gamers all), but I've only ensnared those who were predisposed to dice games. Time and again they've brushed it off as "too nerdy." So, can it be that we are the last nerds standing? Fantasy/Sci-Fi and Comic Book Nerdom was spread in one fell swoop by the movie industry. Actual comic book collecters are a dieing breed. Between the original Xbox and the Wii video games have been spread to every corner of the consumer population. Everyone constantly uses computers now, for good or for ill, and while only a handful actually care to learn how a computer works the majority of people have a basic idea.

So can it be RPGs are the last staple of Western Nerdom untouched by the masses? More specifically the table top RPGs. This is different than simply painting miniatures; people have always painted and will continue to no matter the canvas. I'm talking about using a group's collective imaginations in combination with dice and miniature avatars, not to tell, but experience a story. For some reason, this avenue of gaming is closed off to the public. I don't even mean the price of starting a miniature collection, just playing a dice game. Something about it scares them off, like its taboo. So I'm conerned; if table top gaming doesn't become mainstream, it'll go the way of the comic books. I honestly don't think this fringe existance is sustainable.

What do you guys think?

Well, I'd bait them in with a board game (with dice). Slowly, surely, Nerdom will rule above all.

I am of the opposite opinion.

The wargame industry will never become mainstream for a number of reasons and that is a good thing.

Mainstreaming anything means big business dumbing it down for the masses, and disenfranchising the core fans who nurtured it and let it grow big enough for mainstream attention.

Look at the state of 40K if you play nearly anything except Space Mariens (Hurr!!!)

Kilkrazy wrote:I am of the opposite opinion.

The wargame industry will never become mainstream for a number of reasons and that is a good thing.

Mainstreaming anything means big business dumbing it down for the masses, and disenfranchising the core fans who nurtured it and let it grow big enough for mainstream attention.

Look at the state of 40K if you play nearly anything except Space Mariens (Hurr!!!)

I am and I do, but what you described sounds just like what GW is doing. It feels like a desperation move for no reason; if it doesn't make them mainstream (and it won't), it'll kill them.

There is going to be a huge revival in wargaming when RepRap technology allows people to share 3D model files and "print" miniatures.

The technology is already here, it just costs $30,000.

No, because that technology can just as easily be used by a hipster chick in New York making little bunny sculptures. Then those sculptures will feature in a blog, then a magazine and then be all the rage for about 6 months until everyone forgets about it. The youtube documentary will get 2 million hits, tops.

daedalusaf wrote:Well, I'd bait them in with a board game (with dice). Slowly, surely, Nerdom will rule above all.

That's how they snared me. If it weren't for Risk, I would still be just another beer-guzzling football-watching metalhead with nothing to show for my life but a wall full of concert ticket stubs and ..... HEY!!!!

Kilkrazy wrote:I am of the opposite opinion.

The wargame industry will never become mainstream for a number of reasons and that is a good thing.

Mainstreaming anything means big business dumbing it down for the masses.

Too late.

I live in a farm town, that article doesn't really apply here...well written though.

Onward to the larger picture. I can remember back when I was labled a "geek" and a "nerd" for enjoying the Zelda video games and being into 40k when I was in middle school. Ever since I returned to this hobby, people seem more intrigued when I tell them about it, as opposed to laughing and pointing at me. I see the expansion of this game and games like this as a good thing (so long as it's not overly simplified...fingers crossed) because it forces people to think. Thinking people lead to good things. Who knows? Maybe wargaming and RPGs and other nerdy things are the key to saving the human race...

DarkHound wrote:Something about it scares them off, like its taboo.

Its a combination of associative judgment by obscurity (the mainstream nerd hobbies have always been fairly popular), and complexity vis a vis a significant group of people. I've never played a pen and paper simply because I've never known enough interested gamers who I would want to play with.

Interesting article, I think the line between nerd and a normal human being will become a more blurred but that 'true' nerds will always be just as nerdy.

Everyone and their mum uses the internet these days but only the nerds will access a site via the IP address. Everyone watches Lord of the Rings but only geeks read the Silmarillion. Everyone likes video games but only nerds have spent 500+ hours on Dwarf Fortress sneering at the inferior lifeforms who cannot fathom the interface. Heck, lots of non-nerds like World of Warcraft, but only nerds will have long rants about the injustice of the latest patch or how terrible Blizzard is for destroying the background.

Indeed, I don't think wargaming/rpg's will become mainstream easily or at all, this is due to the amount of money needed to buy the stuff, the time needed to be spent on the models and the amount of rules that need to or should be learned, this makes it hard to just 'jump in' and the best way to get involved is through friends or a club....

DarkHound wrote:I'm talking about using a group's collective imaginations in combination with dice and miniature avatars, not to tell, but experience a story. For some reason, this avenue of gaming is closed off to the public. I don't even mean the price of starting a miniature collection, just playing a dice game. Something about it scares them off, like its taboo.

Lack of imagination, mostly. And the fact that when we reach a certain age, our society still tells us that we're supposed to grow up and stop playing make-believe. So to the majority of people, in whom the need to be seen as 'grown up' eventually muscles out the 'childish' desire to pretend, the idea that anyone other than kids would be interested in playing such games is a hard thing to comprehend.

Interesting how no matter how nerdy or dorky we all still seperate and cast judgement upon one another. Is a larp'er the nerdiest of the bunch just because I personally would never do that. Is someone who sits and plays D&D the worst, or simply the fella who collects spiderman toys. Really no one is abouve the other, and in all honesty the word nerd is so stupid in my eyes for people to use because they are trying to be pious(did I spell that right?) towards one another just to make themselves feel better for their addictions. ......Although I still think Yu'Ghio(however that is) is stupid as hell.....just saying!

Videogames shows us a bit how something tabu 20 years ago is now so mainstream that everyone of every age plays them.
Wargamming is already at the edge of mainstream its a matter of time.
Sure some still hold the banner its geeky childish whatever... well everyone knows video didnt kill the radiostar

NAVARRO wrote:Videogames shows us a bit how something tabu 20 years ago is now so mainstream that everyone of every age plays them.
Wargamming is already at the edge of mainstream its a matter of time.
Sure some still hold the banner its geeky childish whatever... well everyone knows video didnt kill the radiostar

Hell I knew a guy who put himself through college just playing video games. He was some top 5 ranked player world wide for the smash brothers series I guess. Heck have you seen what prof. magic players can make!!!!!!

IMHO, I can see table top wargaming becoming more and more of an outdated form of entertainment.

Virtual gaming is the future, and as the virtual experience gets better and better ( Holodeck ala Star Trek anyone ) then the need to labour and "collect" little 28mm fixed representations of soldiers will be like stamp collecting....

In a way, i'm not at all phased or worried by this, in fact, I'd welcome it.....but thats more to do with the fact that I'm more into display painting and modelling then out-right gaming.

Another point to consider, when you look at the limitations of wargaming tabletop style, I think online computer gaming offers a gamer alot more...a hell of a lot more.

How many people here would like to try a new table top gaming system? And how many people don't, because they're worried that noone else in their area actually plays that game to. Seems like a small thing, but right now, its a massive hindrance to the genre.....maybe you're fed up with GWs offerings, and you'd like to play #what ever# else.....if no one else is playing it, you've got two choices, suck up the GW soda-pop, or quit gaming altogther......yeah, great...all hail the relativly social hobby...or should I say GW Hobby?

This kind of thing isn't a problem in the virtual world, as invariably, if you can't go online and play, you have the AI of your system to contend with....and judging by some of the people who actually do tabletop wargame, the AI is prefereable....again, IMHO.....

Wargames fight mainstreaming because of the buy-in.

What's mainstream? Cell phone games. Console games.

I can't use this formula to explain World of Warcraft.

Also it isn't as well known, heck who doesn't know vin diesel has a tattoo on his chest of his D&D character, and proudly admits it. I remember him on I think it was cohan O"Brian a few years back when he went on for 20 minutes on how much he loved D&D. Also you have famous warhammer players like Robin Williams(somone a while back posted a pic of him), billy crystal has owned up in interviews he plays orks(yetish orks to be in fact), Will smith, andtommy lee jones play 40k together (smith told a reporter for article years ago he got Jones to start playing 40k on the set of MIB). Not sure where I was heading with this as I had to stop to do some actual work(damn the man), but you maybe get the idea! (if you do let me know pleas)

Empchild wrote:Also it isn't as well known, heck who doesn't know vin diesel has a tattoo on his chest of his D&D character, and proudly admits it. I remember him on I think it was cohan O"Brian a few years back when he went on for 20 minutes on how much he loved D&D. Also you have famous warhammer players like Robin Williams(somone a while back posted a pic of him), billy crystal has owned up in interviews he plays orks(yetish orks to be in fact), Will smith, andtommy lee jones play 40k together (smith told a reporter for article years ago he got Jones to start playing 40k on the set of MIB). Not sure where I was heading with this as I had to stop to do some actual work(damn the man), but you maybe get the idea! (if you do let me know pleas)

So, hey, if it doesn't make it to being mainstream it'll probably end up as one of those "rich people" hobbies. I'm fine with that.

RPG'ers are the 2nd to last bastion of Nerd followed quickly by LARP'ers. Everyone enoys a little LoTR on the big screen or the home theater. I just don't want to ride on the bus next to a 320 Frodo.

Table top games are a completely different animal. The pretend play of RPG/LARPs substitute reality with made up play.

A table top game, while the subject of your battles may be a tad nerdy (sci fi/Fantasy) can be done tastefully with ancients, medieval, and WWI, WWII and modern era. Much more akin to "train" guys.

Yep... RPGers still deserve wedgies.

RPG'ers are the 2nd to last bastion of Nerd followed quickly by LARP'ers. Everyone enoys a little LoTR on the big screen or the home theater. I just don't want to ride on the bus next to a 320 pound Frodo.

Table top games are a completely different animal. The pretend play of RPG/LARPs substitute reality with made up play.

A table top game, while the subject of your battles may be a tad nerdy (sci fi/Fantasy) can be done tastefully with ancients, medieval, and WWI, WWII and modern era. Much more akin to "train" guys.

Yep... RPGers still deserve wedgies.