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So this is my first competitive 1850 list.

HQ: Vulkan He'stan 190 (he will be in the LRR w/ termies)

Troops: 10 TSM 240
Meltagun
MM
PF
Rhino w/ Dozer

10 TSM 240
Meltagun
MM
PF
Rhino w/ Dozer

10 TSM 245
Flamer
MM
PF
Rhino w/ Dozer
Combimelta


Elites: 5 Assault Termies TH/SS 450
LRR w/ MM

Heavy Support: Vindicator w/ Siege Shield 125
Vindicator w/ Dozer 120
TFC 100

Fast Attack: Land Speeder w/ MM and HF 70
Land Speeder w/ MM and HF 70



The reason for all the Dozer blades is b/c of my horrible rolling I had in a game against guard. This list depends on getting close and when a LRR and 2 rhino's fail dangerous terrain, you are in for a long pointless game.
The one vindi has a Siege shield because I came across 5 spare pts after giving it a dozer blade.

The TFC may seem out of place, but in a play test against nidz and marines it more than earned its points back.

Yes I know that I lack long range fire power, but I am trying to play a more fluffy salamanders type list. (Close range)

So what do you guys think?

looks nice, only thing i can think of is that the combi melta on the rhino seems a little outta place since you could use the points on something more valuable o.o

a wise dakkite once told me that rhinos are moving coffins, so its best not to throw extra points at them. keep the price low and upgarde something else

heavy support looks nice...i play CSM so not sure if it works better for regular marines, but i have found that vindicators tend to work best if you use them with a pred or something with longer range near them instead of two vindicators. that way you can eliminate some of the heavier threats likely to attack the vindicator since it does such huge damage with its cannon.

very nice list though, from what i can tell those are the mods you need according to what has worked best for me, but do what you think will turn out better for you in the end.
best of luck to ya

The combimelta is with sgt. lol SM cannot take combi weapons on rhinos.

The storm bolters are also equipped on sgts.

Part of the reason that I like 2 vindis is the scare factor. If i force my opponent to take shots at the vindis, then he is not shooting the rhinos w/ tacs. My squads will then be able to advance onto some objectives.

Thanks for your reply though.

Any thoughts?

Very nice, my 1750 point Vulkan list is very similar to this.

I'm not a big fan of those tactical squads though, they seem to be mismatched. In terms of heavy and special weapons, in my Vulkan list I like to give all my tactical squads Flamers and Plasma Cannons. Flamers are there because, with the expensive Terminator squad and Land Raider, you often don't have enough bodies on the ground to handle horde. Plasma Cannons are the real danger in these squads, which are there to take out small elite squads such as Berserkers/Plague Marines once your speeders and other melta weapons have destroyed their transports. Personally, I think the PC is the only heavy weapon worth not moving the entire squad to shoot; the amount of damage one direct hit can inflict can almost recoup the entire squads cost.

I'd also like to see another MM/HF Land Speeder here, perhaps drop the TFC? It seems like it won't get LOS often enough with all those other tanks on the field. That might not be an issue though; I'll admit that I've never used one before.

Overall I think the list lacks long range firepower. What happens when you face up against an army that can out-maneuver you, such as Eldar or DE? Or any army that is better in assault or has better short-range firepower? Things like Lascannons our Missile Launchers are great here as they take out low AV targets at long range and give you better flexibility. A really easy way to get these into your list would be to replace your Redeemer with a regular Land Raider and take a Land Speeder Typhoon. I use both of these in my 1750 list and the tactical choices they open up for you are worth their weight in gold. Dropping the TFC would give you enough points to take the Typhoon as well.

Hopefully this was of some use. Your list will likely do well even without any of my changes, but the fine tuning I've suggested above should help you take on a much wider range of opponents.

pdawg517 wrote:So this is my first competitive 1850 list.

HQ: Vulkan He'stan 190 (he will be in the LRR w/ termies)

Troops: 10 TSM 245
Meltagun
ML
PF
Storm Bolter
Rhino

10 TSM 250
Meltagun
PC
PF
Storm Bolter
Rhino

10 TSM 245
Flamer
MM
PF
Combimelta
Rhino


Elites: 5 Assault Termies TH/SS 450
LRR w/ MM

Heavy Support: Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115
TFC 100

Fast Attack: Land Speeder w/ MM and HF 70
Land Speeder w/ MM and HF 70



The storm bolters are there to take up an additional 20 pts. About the only other place I can see them being used is on seige shields for the vindis.

I have always had good luck with the TFC and think that it can be a great antihorde and MEQ killer.
The vindis are a different story. When I run one, it sucks. But with two I usually get to fire some shots.

Feedback or suggestions?

Not enough stuff in your list is taking advantage of vulkan's ability.

It's all about melta and flamers with vulkan. I would rather have ac/las sponson pred's than vindi's for heavy support. Some long range anti-tank is always good for marines. PF"s in tac squads is not a very good idea. That's 75pts or another mm/hf speeder.

Try this:

Vulkan
Librarian w/term armor/null zone/avenger

2x10man tac squad w/melta/mm/rhino
1x10man tac squad w/flamer/mm/rhino

1x5man ass term squad w/th/ss in lrc w/mm

3xland speeder w/mm/hf

2xpred w/ac/las spons

1850 even.

Maximizes vulkan with every choice in the list, except for the preds, which help provide long range anti-tank that is usually lacking in a vulkan list.

The vindicator is a point sink and taking any Heavy or special weapons in your squads that don't benefit from Vulkan is just wasting Vulkan.

jaweyermuller wrote:The vindicator is a point sink and taking any Heavy or special weapons in your squads that don't benefit from Vulkan is just wasting Vulkan.

Seriously? Can you honestly not see any disadvantage in only taking Flamers and Meltas? This is horrible advice.

its not only meltas and flamers, there is 2 autocannons and 4 las cannons! My only gripe is that the powerfists are fantastic on tac squads, and the redeemer is far superior than a crusader both in rules and in synergy with flamery goodness. The libby needs to be downgraded to stock to make use of the redeemer though.

EDIT: sorry just realized I was using weazels list (a stronger list), not the OP's list, for comparison to your reply unbeliever. When looking at the OP's list, I agree that missile launchers would be nice to shake/stun from a distance, seeing the long range firepower is a bit lower.

Change the tac heavy weapons to missiles, far better at taking on eldar.

Also tacs have nothing to do with powerfists, they are piss poor at melee with every army being able to outmelee them with their melee specialists.
Save those points on more dedicated melee models.

Try MM attackbikes also, especially if you face Tau, they are more powerful vs tau then speeders plus let you save some more points.

DevianID wrote:...the redeemer is far superior than a crusader both in rules and in synergy with flamery goodness.

Just to make sure; you know that Vulkan doesn't twin-link the flamestorm cannon, right?

...and that the normal LR can earn points right back from the very start and doesnt get completely useless like the redeemer if its imobbed nor has to go chase after the opponents in order to fire plus can only go 6´unless it wants to half its shooting power?

Original list updated.

I've only seen a LRR use its flamers twice...once on me unfortunately but thank goodness for WBB. While the LR has more action in the game, I believe the threat of the LRR is very palpable. It has definitely influenced my movement phases a great deal. And while I avoid it in 9/10 games, the opponent is forcing me to react to what he is doing. If the opponent has the wherewithal and the units, then he could use that for an advantage.

If you have the models, then go ahead and play test the list you have. You may find that your assault terminators tend to get isolated when they advance, so either be real patient with them and allow your LR's lascannons create prime assault opportunities, or rush with combat squads in Rhinos.

An assault squad with flamer(s) would be another unit worth looking in to.

Of course their are disadvantages to only taking flamers and melta weapons but if you mix the weapons correctly and know how to play the game the disadvantages are easily managed to the point of being able to negate them almost entirely. The only heavy weapons my tac squads take besides multi meltas are missile launchers because I like to run 2 tac squads with razorbacks and combat squad them. Plus if I am relying on long range firepower over close quarters firepower and assault then my army isn't exactly playing the way Salamanders are supposed to. I tend to believe if you are playing an army with a definite theme then you should play the army that way. Anyways, just sharing what works for me.

pdawg517 wrote:Original list updated.

Dump the pf's in the tac squads and pick up another mm/hf speeder.

What about drop pods for the Tacs?

pdawg517 wrote:What about drop pods for the Tacs?

Nope. Not in this list.

Tac squads should do what tac squads do best.

Rhino bunkers.

This list is having a identity crisis. It needs more Fast attack. You don't need lascannons if you got Land Speeders and/or Attack Bike in your opponents face right off the bat. Use Vulcan's ability to TL your meltas to deal with armour. Lascannons are not even good at dealing with armour, great at poping transports that's about it.

True, no need for lascannons and certainly not for preds with las, thats to expensive.
A fast MM that Vulkan twinlinks is far better and for less points.

Long range anti-tank fire is going to become a necessity very soon for any army list, if you are going to maintain an 'all-comers' capability.

It's that simple.

imweasel wrote:Long range anti-tank fire is going to become a necessity very soon for any army list, if you are going to maintain an 'all-comers' capability.

It's that simple.

What exactly are you hinting at here?

No need to be coy - out with it!

Not sure what else is coming up, but it seems to me that long range anti-tank is *already* necessary, what with Codex: Tyranids, more and more people taking transports, etc.

Fetterkey has it. Nid dex and the plethora of inexpensive transports.

Rushing 2 or 3 land speeders to get 2 or 3 wounds on a mc, only to die from counter fire is not an optimal deal.

Also throwing away your speeder for 50pts of gaunts/gants is also less than optimal.

imweasel wrote:

Rushing 2 or 3 land speeders to get 2 or 3 wounds on a mc, only to die from counter fire is not an optimal deal.

That would be silly to engage a MC when you got a TL heavy flamer... roast 'gant anyone?

General_Chaos wrote:

imweasel wrote:

Rushing 2 or 3 land speeders to get 2 or 3 wounds on a mc, only to die from counter fire is not an optimal deal.

That would be silly to engage a MC when you got a TL heavy flamer... roast 'gant anyone?

Like I said, throwing away your speeder to kill 50 pts of gaunts/gants is not a good return on investment either.

imweasel wrote:

pdawg517 wrote:Original list updated.

Dump the pf's in the tac squads and pick up another mm/hf speeder.

Oh... wait a minute it's only a good idea when YOU say it.....

Not sure what else is coming up, but it seems to me that long range anti-tank is *already* necessary, what with Codex: Tyranids, more and more people taking transports, etc.

Not so true for Vulkan lists, especially if they include drop pods.

Lascannons are currently only good against monoliths for the points lascannons cost. You pay an arm and a leg for a las pred when you have free missile launchers that are almost as good.
When we talk the new nids the ML will do the job better point wise then an expensive lascannon.

As for landraiders, as said, melta weapons in a vulkan list are much better vs LR builds then any lascannon will ever be. Have a cheap melta pod or MM attackbikes or speeders and the LR problem is pretty much countered forcing the opponent on the defensive and playing a reactive game to your cheaper threats to his more expensive units.

General_Chaos wrote:

imweasel wrote:

pdawg517 wrote:Original list updated.

Dump the pf's in the tac squads and pick up another mm/hf speeder.

Oh... wait a minute it's only a good idea when YOU say it.....

No. I just am not advocating using nothing but mm/hf speeders.

Taking some is fine.

Sticking all your eggs in that basket is not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:Lascannons are currently only good against monoliths for the points lascannons cost. You pay an arm and a leg for a las pred when you have free missile launchers that are almost as good.
When we talk the new nids the ML will do the job better point wise then an expensive lascannon.

It is very, very difficult to take down a tfex with ml's.

It is very, very difficult to take down a tfex with ml's.

It is very very easy to take one out with mastercrafted hammer terminators in a Vulkan build.
It is also even easier for the common nid shooting now to down that expensive las pred so taking las preds to counter the occasional nid threat is a very bad idea.

Lascannons are good vs the odd stuff one faces in a tournament like certain nids from range and necron monoliths. It is up to each player to read the meta game and decide weather spending lots of points to have a better chance to counter rare things if worth it or not in an against all environment, especcialy if it goes against the armies overall theme.