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HQ- Swarmlord 280
Tyrant Guard 60
Lash Whip 5

Total- 345

- Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines- Free
Toxin Sacs- 10

Total- 185

Troops-
Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines - Free
Toxin Sacs- 10
Termagants x10 50
Total- 235

Genestealer x 7 98

Total- 98

Elites- Hive Guard x 2 100


Total- 100

Heavy- Tyrannofex 250
Rupture Cannon 15
Desiccator Larvae- Free
Tyrannofex 250
Rupture Cannon 15
Desiccator Larvae - Free
Total – 530

Grand Total- 1493


Tactics- The Tervigon HQ marches forwards with the Swarmlord and Hive Guard, giving the Swarmlord Feel No Pain and then later providing Synapse for the two Hive Guard when they set up out of LOS and start popping off shots. It can also spawn additional Termagants with poison for a screen/counter charge unit. The Tervigon troops choice just camps on an objective next to the two Tyrannofex's, providing Synapse for them + pumping out extra troops to claim further objectives, while the Genestealers outflank (utilizing the Swarmlords special rule if needed) to contest/claim further objectives or tie up heavy weapons squads. (Devestators etc).

The Main reason i'm taking the expensive Swarmlord is, much like Shep has mentioned in another thread, the Hive Tyrant won't cut it against things like Thunderwolf cavalry/Stormshield Terminators/Bloodcrushers, where as the Swarmlord tears them a new one, since even if he gets charged all his attacks cause instant death, he forces you to reroll successful invul saves and his Tyrant guard (assuming it survives) can use its lash whip to make them Intiaitive 1 too.

Let me know what you guys think .

Seems quite effective. One thing i like about it is that it causes the opponent to split their fire to many different dangerous targets. Most heavy weaponry will probably go into the tyrannofexes, leaving the genestealers and tervigons mostly unharmed for quite some time. Some opponents might play it differently, but no 1500 army will have enough shooting to take everything down.

I'd cut the HQ Tervigon for 20x Hormagants with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands on the other Tervigon. I also don't think you realy need 2 T-Fexes at 1500pts, so I'd drop one to bump the Termagant unit up to 30 and then buy more Hive Guard (as many as you can).

what happens when the trevigon stops producing units on the first turn?

I just don't think you have enough wounds to advance across the table and then kill people in melee. FNP on the swarmlord isn't really that great as most things shooting at the swarmlord will ignore it. but against autocannons and the like it could be ok. A better choice may be a venomthrope.

The t fex is out of place in this list. it is going to get 5 shots off each game and maybe damage 2 or 3 tanks if you roll well for penetration. Ask a tau play how often he kills a tank with a hammerhead. Once a game maybe even with two hammerheads at BS4 and +1 on the damage table. Sure you can stun weaker tanks out of existance but you will rarely kill one. I would invest its points in 2 podding Zoanthropes and some more stealers. I would also drop one tervigon and bring some toxic sac adrenal gland homaguants or some shrikes to provide cover to the advancing swarmlord.

zoans are a must but not by them selfs always at least buy them in squads of 2-3 stick them in a pod and than get some trygons plus some genestealers to all arrive via reserves deep, outflank ,etc

and Caffran9 is right you only need one tervigon in this list and dont put a massed amount of points into them ethier
and get that swarmlord some tyrant guard

The reason for the two Tyrannofex's was to pump out 4 S10 shots per turn (since at least one will usually miss on BS3). That way I could run my Hive Guard up behind a wall or something and shoot 4 S8 shots at approaching Rhino's etc. I guess I could swap out the Tervigon for more small troops, but wouldn't his Feel No Pain + possible troops help the Swarmlord advance more easily? I suppose the other tactic I could employ is just hold the Swarmlord back until i've weakened the enemy up a bit, utilizing him as a counter-assault unit against things like Terminators in Land Raiders etc that come to smash my troops on the objective.

I guess if I play it that way actually, I can drop the Tervigon HQ and then get more Genestealers/Shrikes etc to put pressure on the enemy while I shoot them with Hive Guard+ the Tyrannofex's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok i've made some revisions to the list, including some Gargolyes, buffing the Genestealers and adding another Tyrant Guard+ Hive Guard + Losing a Tyrannofex. Hopefully this makes the list more flexible/competitive overall.

HQ- Swarmlord 280
Tyrant Guard x2 120
Lash Whip 10

Total- 410

- Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines- Free
Toxin Sacs- 10

Total- 185

Troops-
Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines - Free
Termagants x10 50
Total- 225

Genestealer x 7 98
Toxin Sacs 21
Total- 119

Elites- Hive Guard x 3 150

Total- 150

Fast Attack- Gargoyle x20 120
Toxin Sacs 40

Total- 160

Heavy- Tyrannofex 250
Rupture Cannon 15
Desiccator Larvae- Free

Total – 250

Grand Total- 1499

This way i've improved my mid-range shooting (extra Hive Guard), retain the Feel No Pain buff for the Swarmlord's March+ given him another bodyguard for protection, increased the effectiveness of the Outflanking Genestealers (since now they can reroll against MEQ with their poison for more rending wounds) and also added in a fast squad of Gargolyes to use either as a screen or to harass heavy weapon squads/contest objectives. Let me know what you think guys, and as ever thank you for your comments.

I just don't think you have enough wounds to advance across the table and then kill people in melee. FNP on the swarmlord isn't really that great as most things shooting at the swarmlord will ignore it. but against autocannons and the like it could be ok. A better choice may be a venomthrope.

The t fex is out of place in this list. it is going to get 5 shots off each game and maybe damage 2 or 3 tanks if you roll well for penetration. Ask a tau play how often he kills a tank with a hammerhead. Once a game maybe even with two hammerheads at BS4 and +1 on the damage table. Sure you can stun weaker tanks out of existance but you will rarely kill one. I would invest its points in 2 podding Zoanthropes and some more stealers. I would also drop one tervigon and bring some toxic sac adrenal gland homaguants or some shrikes to provide cover to the advancing swarmlord.

I agree Hammerheads are for popping transports and helping Broadsides, but mainly you just go submission and take out infantry. Broadsides take out tanks.

If you want anti-tank and certainly at this point level Zoanthropes in pods are a much much better choice. Cheaper and far more effective.

Also I just don't see the point in spending 14 points on a Genestealer and then handicaping him by not getting toxin sacs? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get toxin sacs on the genestealers, re-rolls to wound when you are a rending creature is horrendous!

I also agree adrenal glands should be on the Tervigons too, again having the gaunts re-roll wounds in CC is too good to pass up though granted it will only be on the turn they assault for 10 points why not?

If you drop the Tyranofexes for 2 units of 2 Zoes in pods you should have easily enough points to add these biomorphs and bump that Termagant squad up to 30 models then FnP it and watch it become a tarpit.

You've chunked a lot of points into that hello please shoot me Swarmlord with little protection. People saying that the Tyranofexes will be targetted instead of him have never used Tau. Tau players will know that the Tyranofexes aren't a great threat, just not enough S10 shots for the points (for 530 points of broadsides you'd get 7 twinlinked AP1 shots per turn) and AP4 means that they can't even target ICs for ID because they'll get their armour save. I'd just ignore the Tyranofex until the swarm lord was dead or engage it in CC. Stopping the Swarmlord would be priority 1 then killing the tervigons whilst tarpitting the stealers.

This army feels like it is a hotch potch of what you like from the list. You've not commited to anything. the swarmlord only has 1 body guard and no fast MC to offer duel threat to make them spread their firepower.

You've got 2 Tervigons but no adrenal glands on them and you've got Catalyst but no large unit to take advantage of it instead you want to waste in on the swarmlord for whom 90% of the firepower he's going to be receiving will ignore FnP (unless you're up against Tau). If you want Tervigons commit to them and take plenty of Termagants and give them both glands and sacs.

You're stealers are half baked. Then a 3rd of your armies points have gone into the Tyranofexes who have very little else to help support their limited fire power. 2 S10 shots hitting AV13 have a 30.5% chance of killing it! Not terrible but that is only AV13 and with both your Tyranofexes firing everything at it you have less than a 1 in 3 chance of killing it! Obviously half that if the AV13 in question is a hammerhead as it'll have DPs. Still see that as 530 points well spent? They are more of a threat to AV13 and 14 in CC than at range!

Also as Razorlead says in a Nid zilla list the Venomthrope comes into it's own. In a swarm list it is pointless as you should be getting 4+ saves anyway but in a list like this, reliant on MCs, you need the Venomthrope to give you a save as 3+ will be negated by almost anything with a high enough strength to worry you (Autocannons and Tau aside).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For a contrast 2 Warp Lance hits on AV14 have a 55.6% chance of destroying it and that's for just 230 points of Zoanthropes (including a spore with Cluster spines at 50 points which can drop a pie plate on a different unit and shoot a further 6 S6 shots up to 6" if you're close enough).

That 530 points of Tyranofex still looking a sound investment?

HQ- Swarmlord 280
Tyrant Guard x2 120
Lash Whip 10
Unless your meta is Eldar heavy I'd steer away from the Whips. Power weapons will still be buried in squads you face even if they're not I1 normally.
Stepping down to a normal Tyrant might be a good idea to give you a little more firepower.

Instead of the Genestealers, a brood of Hormagaunts, or lots more Termagaunts. Since you're bringing two Tervigon I'm not a fan of upgrading the termagaunts so nobody can get confused.


Elites-
Hive Guard x 1 50
Hive Guard x 1 50
Hive Guard x 1 50
Since you're not able to distribute wounds and have no other elite choices there's no reason to make them all shoot at one target. being able to spread the love around is more important than delivering 6 s8 shots into one unit. Venomthropes would be a very good idea as well so to provide a little more cover to your larger creatures.

Fast Attack- Gargoyle x20 120
Toxin Sacs 20
Adrenal Glands 20

The only thing I think I see wrong with this is that its one brood.


Heavy- Tyrannofex 250

No sir, I don't like it. Perhaps a Trigon Prime, or two broods of hormagaunts in Spores w/ Venom Cannons. A pair of Venomthropes and more Gargoyles...

I'm a fan of swarm lists just not messing around. If you're creating a target rich environment spew targets so they have to make decisions.
If the Swarmlord is mandatory I'd still dump the Tyrannofex and beef up other units.

Alright cheers guys, i'll probably drop the Tyrannofex, add in Zoanthropes and beef up the Termagant stuff+ upgrade the Tervigons. I should add that this is my first time playing Nids, so apologies for any obvious errors I may be making. I just got home from playing a -massive- Tyranid Planetstrike event at my local GW store though, so can comment on a few of the other things people have suggested:

Trygons, while cool, just get owned by the mass amount of Anti-Tank that most people seem to bring to the table (to counter the prevalance of mech in 5th), since most weapons (melta, lascannon, plasma) don't even allow them to take armour saves and wound them on 2's. Another big thing I noticed is that, since none of the normal Tyranid MC's even have invul saves, they get utter battered by the classic terminator+ thunderhammer combo that marines love so much and, whilst I agree you won't always face squads that can do this as easily, I see alot of such combo's in my Meta so am quite worried about that.

Other things I noticed were- Hormagaunts with Poison -and- Adren glands are amazing now, a squad of twenty started wiping out some terminators just due to the sheer amount of attacks they put out . I also had a chance to playtest the Swarmlord with 3 Tyrant Guard and here is what I found:

Assuming you utilize enough target saturation and the Swarmlord gets into CC, he's an absolute beast, especially if you get off Paroxysm before hitting the intended assault target. During the course of the game, my Swarmlord managed to kill a total of 11 Stormshield Terminators, 1 Chaplain and a Captain from the Salamanders (Tu'san or something), lasting at least 3-4 turns against a mass of Thunderhammer attacks because he actually has an invulnerable save. (Probably due to alot of luck+ Preferred enemy abuse on my part, since he was stuck in a melee of 20+ terminators all game, but in the average 1500 one I wouldn't face anywhere near as many as that).

Conversely, I got a Hive Tyrant into combat with another squad of TH/SS terminators and he got -completely owned- in the first round of combat, so he seems like a no-go for me in competitive play where you're likely to face things like Powerfists, Thunderhammers, and crazy special characters en-masse.

Cheers for all the feedback though everyone, i'll revise my list and post the changes here.

Trygons are good used in pairs. Swarmlord is a beast in CC against stuff like Hammernators and ICs in particular.

However a Trygon with even without an invulnerable save is favourite in combat against 4 hammer terminators assuming he assaulted it is pretty close against 5, but against 4 he is a pretty strong favourite. So don't discount them due to lack of invulnerable save. Their issue is more surviving into combat which is why you need 2.

The Swarmlord is beast in CC but getting him there is the problem. He is a walking target and has no invulnerable save against incoming shots. I don't think he'll get there in this list, he can also be tarpitted by stuff like Ork boyz or massed IG, unless he's hitting power armour or better he's not going to be getting you value with his attacks.

Can anyone recommend a good way to deliver the Swarmlord into CC? I mean would a big screen of Termagants+ Tervigon work? or do I need something like mass Gargolyes flying infront of him or something? lol This is so much easier in my Daemon list where I just deepstrike Skulltaker in their face >.<

-Edit- here's the revised list for now..

HQ-
Swarmlord 280
Tyrant Guard 60
Tyrant Guard 60
Boneswords 30

Total- 430

- Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines- Free
Toxin Sacs- 10
Adren Glands 10

Total- 195

Troops-
Tervigon 160
Catalyst 15
Cluster Spines - Free
Termagants x10 50

Total- 225

Genestealer x 7 98
Toxin Sacs 21
Total- 119

Elites-

Hive Guard x 3 150

Zoanthrope Brood x3 180
Mycetic Spore 40
Total- 370

Fast Attack-
Gargoyle x20 120
Toxin glands 20

Total- 160

Grand Total- 1499

Honestly I think your list is weak for a tournament, if your playing a 1 off game and know you don't need scoring units its okay.

You have basically taken a nidzilla list which prolly is less effective with this codex than the last.

Can you recommend a list with a similar theme then? that would do better in a competitive/tournament setting?

MorbidAngel wrote:Can you recommend a list with a similar theme then? that would do better in a competitive/tournament setting?

At 1500 points a Swarmlord is too much of a points sink. At 2500, ROCK ON...but at 1500...you just blew at least 20% of your points on one thing. ONE THING. I'd say take to Tyranid Prime with Boneswords and Adrenal and attach him to a warrior brood of 4-5. Then use a Trygon and hope for lucky reserves. Either way, a Prime is AWESOME with a little upgrading, will have a squad to soak up shots, and he makes the warriors even better. And what I just recommended is a 100 pt HQ, I just saved you anywhere from 180 to 240 points. Bring a Trygon Prime. And if you go Zoan heavy, I'd drop pod one squad as a ace in the hole and use the other ones to foot slog and face the advance. At 1500 pts your enemy is not going to throw a lot at you that you need ALL the Zoans immediately in their face via pods.

Also, 10 Termagaunts will be eaten in one turn. 24 of them is only 120 pts and is a good assault shield for your I1 Tervigon. 24 gaunts with free glands and poison who are possibly FNP are nothing to sneeze at, even with the Furious Charge rewrite.

Yeah..I know he's ridiculously point heavy, but god he's amazing if you get him into combat :( . The problem is getting him there against good players I guess. >.<

Here is what I would propose. Nothing flashy but efficient and should get the job done.
***
HQ
Tyranid Prime 100
** with Boneswords, glands

TROOPS
Tervigon 195
** with Catalyst, glands, poison
Termagaunts 110
** 22 x
Tervigon 195
** with Catalyst, glands, poison
Termagaunts 110
** 22 x
Warrior Brood 175
** 5x Warriors w/ glands

ELITES
Zoanthropes 120
** 2x Zoans
Zoanthropes 120
** 2x Zoans
Zoanthropes 120
** 2x Zoans

HS
Trygon Prime 250
** with glands
*******
Attach the Prime to the Warrior squad. Boosts the warriors and makes them real efficient. I would use the Trygon Prime to bust the back ranks and hoep the Warriors come later. If they did, great, send them through the hole so long as they are not running into a trap. Even if reserves screw up and they come off the board edge that will be a real good unit. Zoans are good for popping but a part of me would change one squad to Hive Guard just so you can hide them near an objective behind a wall and take pot shots. A swarmlord is nice and flashy and death but a 1500 IG army will put ALL fire on it the first two turns and it will never touch them. He takes too many resources, is too slow, and there is sadly not enough to make him not the big target. Not at 1500 anyway.

You want to get the Swarmlord into combat? Easy two things you need at least 2 Tyrant Guard and a Flyrant to provide a more immediate threat and force your opponent to split his fire.

All that would come to about 600-700 points of HQ. Is that doable at 1,500 points? No. Hence the problem with your theme.

That 2nd list effectively has 1 MC as all your scoring units. 10 Gants will be dead so fast as to not even bother placing whilst the Stealers are beasts they'll be killing not controlling objectives and one squad will most likely not survive the battle, stealers aren't there for that they are there to tear the opponent apart and die in the process, certainly in such small numbers.

Dump the Swarmlord and then decide what you want to commit to. Horde with Tervigons or MCs.

The swarmlord is great and a killing machine but he's just too expensive and too slow to figure at the 1,500 point level. The Swarmlord basically commits you to 2 Tyrants and a Nidzilla list.

To be honest I wouldn't even look at a standard Tyrant at less than 2,000 points. I lik ethem and they look ace but they are just too much of a points sink at the moment.

Ok thanks everyone, i'll reconsider the list and maybe use a Tyranid Prime + Warriors instead. As a side note I -wish- you could give it wings so it could deepstrike/go with Shrikes or something, that'd be awesome.

MorbidAngel wrote:Yeah..I know he's ridiculously point heavy, but god he's amazing if you get him into combat :( . The problem is getting him there against good players I guess. >.<

Dont put too much hope on the Swarmlord's CC, shep did say he can fight those CC nonsenses ,but that doesnt mean he can take them all by himself, those unit can add numbers to their group ,when the number high enough ,Swarmlord wont stand a chance with his 4+ i Sv and 5 T6 wounds ,not to mention 4attack each turn wont take things off fast.

The strength of nids in this edition is on the swarm ,do the math yourself and see how much damage a 20models strong Gargoyles or Hormagaunts unit with ToxinSacs and Adrenal glands could do on all of those hardcore CC units (or a geater Demon of Korne) ,and compare it to the Swarmlord. Fluffywise Swarmlord is a leader not a tough guy ,unit like Gargoyles,Hormagaunts are actually the fists/Claws of Swarmlord , give them right buff with your Swarmlord (18"range in the shooting phase ,the unit can later fleet/charge more inchs)and hit your opponent with speed.

honestly you might consider reworking your combat approach, seems like your mostly assault but honestly your just going to pop a vehicle then get shot to hell bu all the short range firepower inside against those SW lists. I would add some more dakka

What kind of extra Dakka would you recommend? I already have some Hive Guard + Zoanthropes. Are you referring to small arms firepower or?

Hive guard and zoans are a great unit to any army and they do add some medium to short range fire that is just plain awesome.
I always make sure that I have my elite slots filled in all the time. Hive & and zoans are too good of a unit to pass up.