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ntin wrote:

 Swiftblade wrote:
So I've been messing around with a chaos soup list, and I wanna give the bloodletter bomb a try. Its expensive to invest in money wise and command points wise though, so before I commit to it I was curious about peoples experience with dropping 30 bloodletters right in someones face. Is it worth investing in, or should I not believe the hype?

Not a Khorne player but I think you will need to drop a Khorne daemon character next to bloodletters to get the locus ability to re-roll failed charges. To make a 30 strength drop worth it. Failing a charge is going to mean a lot of dead bloodletters on your opponent's turn. You can drop the unit to 20 strength to make it a 1CP drop but soon as you lose 1 bloodletter to overwatch you lose the unit size bonus.

This is abit untrue. All you need is the banner. From there you could sp3nd the extra cp optionally by using the command or reroll. Between 3d6 charge and command or reroll you have a great chance of making combat.

Also if you want to use the khorne reroll. You still have almost not need to deep strike the herald. You can easily chain back 2 or 3 blood letter to an advancing Herald. That's easily a 30" + increase to the effectiveness of the locus aura range, and it saves you a cp.

Is the Corruption relic better utilized on a Daemon Prince or a Pox Bringer?

Daemon Prince becomes a high Toughness hunter, gains an additional reroll, a higher AP but with random Damage compared to Malefic Talons.

The Pox Bringer hits like a Power Fist with re-roll to wound Thats good... right?

I play a Mono Nurgle list so somebodies gotta take it..

I have given it to a deamon prince just so i can model a cool scythe on it

Are Chaos warhounds an acceptable proxy for flesh hounds if they are mounted on the same size base as flesh hounds?

 Glitcha wrote:
Are Chaos warhounds an acceptable proxy for flesh hounds if they are mounted on the same size base as flesh hounds?

40k warhounds are probably a bit big but the fantasy ones should be fine.

Not a Khorne player but I think you will need to drop a Khorne daemon character next to bloodletters to get the locus ability to re-roll failed charges. To make a 30 strength drop worth it. Failing a charge is going to mean a lot of dead bloodletters on your opponent's turn. You can drop the unit to 20 strength to make it a 1CP drop but soon as you lose 1 bloodletter to overwatch you lose the unit size bonus

they very seldom fail with the banner stratagem, of course re roll is great but not mandatory.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
Are Chaos warhounds an acceptable proxy for flesh hounds if they are mounted on the same size base as flesh hounds?

40k warhounds are probably a bit big but the fantasy ones should be fine.

Har-har, nicely played sir. Epic Scale Warhounds would be pretty cool too.

So what's the concensus on Skull Cannons right now?

I'm considering a World Eaters / Khorne Daemons list consisting of 2 or 3 rhino transports packed full of berskers, champs and apostles. I have a couple of helbrutes acting as advancing and ranged support for the rhino convoy though I'm debating swapping them out for maybe 3 skull cannons.

Any recommendations?

Skull cannons:
Overall: D - meh

eternalxfl wrote:
So what's the concensus on Skull Cannons right now?

IMO still very average. They are in a better spot than what they were previously but still outshined by many other choices (from a competitive stand-point)

Hey guys, tell me a unit that you think is strong, that's not a Bloodletter, Pink Horror or Nurgling and I'll evaluate it.
The 2 worst units in chaos daemons seem to be Keeper of Secrets and Hellflayer btw

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Hey guys, tell me a unit that you think is strong, that's not a Bloodletter, Pink Horror or Nurgling and I'll evaluate it.
The 2 worst units in chaos daemons seem to be Keeper of Secrets and Hellflayer btw

Herald of slaanesh on steed and Flamers of tzeench. I'd like to see numbers on these if you could please.

Herald of Steednesh:
Overall: C - OK

Overall: B - Not bad.

Pink horrors:
Overall: A - Very good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here are some more:
Screamers:
Overall: C - OK

Bloodcrushers:
Overall: E+ - poop

Plague Drones:
Overall: C - OK

Daemon Prince(Nurgle Claws):
Overall: C - OK

Plaguebearers:
Overall: C - OK into B+ when buffed

Exalted Flamers:
Overall: A- - Actually really good

Seekers:
Overall: C - OK

Fiends:
Overall: D - not great

 NurglesR0T wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:
So what's the concensus on Skull Cannons right now?

IMO still very average. They are in a better spot than what they were previously but still outshined by many other choices (from a competitive stand-point)

I plan to run 3 of them in a spear head. Ive found that by themselves they don't roll so well. but when combined with buffs and each other it gets to be pretty potent. 3d6 shots str 8 ap -2 d3 dmg. Reroll 1's to hit from a herald. The crimson crown near them helps too. Any wound roll of a 6 generates extra shots. When I was just rolling some dice, I was averaging 3-4 unsaved wounds by marines in the open. for 3-4d3 dmg. Against a Russ, it was either dead or crippled.

 Glitcha wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:
So what's the concensus on Skull Cannons right now?

IMO still very average. They are in a better spot than what they were previously but still outshined by many other choices (from a competitive stand-point)

I plan to run 3 of them in a spear head. Ive found that by themselves they don't roll so well. but when combined with buffs and each other it gets to be pretty potent. 3d6 shots str 8 ap -2 d3 dmg. Reroll 1's to hit from a herald. The crimson crown near them helps too. Any wound roll of a 6 generates extra shots. When I was just rolling some dice, I was averaging 3-4 unsaved wounds by marines in the open. for 3-4d3 dmg. Against a Russ, it was either dead or crippled.

I, uh, I'm running 6-8 in the 1500 list I'm building And I started working on them before the IMO super deserved price drop / gun buff, simply because I like shooty Khorne + weapon beasties. Definitely all about that Crimson Crown on their herald minder.

No idea how great SC spam will be buuuuuut I'll let y'all know over in batreps at some point this year

- Salvage

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: B
Vs plasma: C
vs anti-tank: C+

Damage melee:
Vs horde: B
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D

Overall: C - OK

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: F!
Vs plasma: E
vs anti-tank: D

Damage melee:
Vs horde: C-
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D-

Overall: D - not great

What is the difference between the two seekers? What determins the letter grade?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Hey guys, tell me a unit that you think is strong, that's not a Bloodletter, Pink Horror or Nurgling and I'll evaluate it.
The 2 worst units in chaos daemons seem to be Keeper of Secrets and Hellflayer btw

I'd like to see what your evaluation of Flesh Hounds is now that they've dropped in points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also not to bring up a dead argument but GW's latest Daughters of Khaine preview shows off the Bloodwrack Medusae which has an exposed breast. They may be old models but at least it gives some hope for a non-neutered Slaanesh release.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/23/daughters-of-khaine-preview-part-4-magic-and-prayersgw-homepage-post-3/

ntin wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: B
Vs plasma: C
vs anti-tank: C+

Damage melee:
Vs horde: B
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D

Overall: C - OK

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: F!
Vs plasma: E
vs anti-tank: D

Damage melee:
Vs horde: C-
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D-

Overall: D - not great

What is the difference between the two seekers? What determins the letter grade?

Edited for Fiends

Flesh Hounds:
Overall: B- - Not bad

 andysonic1 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also not to bring up a dead argument but GW's latest Daughters of Khaine preview shows off the Bloodwrack Medusae which has an exposed breast. They may be old models but at least it gives some hope for a non-neutered Slaanesh release.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/23/daughters-of-khaine-preview-part-4-magic-and-prayersgw-homepage-post-3/

Spoiler:

I would love to make that a deamon prince of slaanesh.

A lot of those models would make great slaanesh conversions. Would not even need much work.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also not to bring up a dead argument but GW's latest Daughters of Khaine preview shows off the Bloodwrack Medusae which has an exposed breast. They may be old models but at least it gives some hope for a non-neutered Slaanesh release.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/23/daughters-of-khaine-preview-part-4-magic-and-prayersgw-homepage-post-3/

Spoiler:

Funny, when you click on the picture of the model on the link you provided, there's an error saying the page no longer exists, ha!

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

ntin wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: B
Vs plasma: C
vs anti-tank: C+

Damage melee:
Vs horde: B
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D

Overall: C - OK

Seekers:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: F!
Vs plasma: E
vs anti-tank: D

Damage melee:
Vs horde: C-
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: D-

Overall: D - not great

What is the difference between the two seekers? What determins the letter grade?

Edited for Fiends

Flesh Hounds:

Spoiler:

Durability
Vs anti-horde: D
Vs plasma: B-
vs anti-tank: B

Damage melee:
Vs horde: B
Vs elites: C
Vs tanks: C

Overall: B- - Not bad

try to play sometimes and you will understand pretty well the real value of units.

Going up against a chaos list this weekend. Haven't seen the new daemons stratagems yet in action. Can someone give me the highlights and the gotchas? I know you can deep strike daemons like it's going out of style, and i heard this works quite well with pink horrors.

Deep Strike has a CP cost. <= 8 PL 1Cp > 8 PL 2CP. They can deep strike 20 strong troops for 1 CP and 21-30 strong troops for 2 CP. Heralds and Wingless DP, are 1 CP as well. Winged CP and Greater Daemons are 2 CP. Other daemon units typically take 2CP to drop in numbers that might be worrying. Tzeetch and Khorne, are the most effective gods to deep strike with.

Another stratagem is Warp Surge which increases invulnerable saves for 1 phase to a maximum of 3++. Tzeetch units can dig in like ticks with 30 pinks with a 3++. They do have to declare this stratagem at the start of the phase.

Each god has a 1 CP banner upgrade, which is declared during setup. It is worth focusing that unit as the special banner does some fun stuff.

After that, it really depends on what chaos god they are taking. As they have their own stratagems, warlord traits, artifacts, and psychic spells (well not Khorne obviously).

Daemons are still heavily reliant on their characters for buff auras. The named heralds will have a different buff than the default herald for that chaos god. In mono, god lists characters will gain a 2nd aura buff based on their chaos god.

You can snipe any Greater Daemon, as they all have >9 wounds. GUO did get a stat line buff over the index.

Thanks. As Tyranids i'm worried about the Pink Horror bath bomb. Very difficult to remove.

If you are worried about Tzeetch, hive fleet Kronos Neurothropes (aaannd a warlord trait I think?) could hinder their psychic phase. Pink Horror bomb is the same basic idea as Trygon devilgaunt bomb. It is hard to counter unless you just own table space.

horror bomb is far superior than devilgaunt bomb
1st they dont need an almost 200pts delivery system
2nd they are more more resilient with a 3++ inv save
3rd they shot at +1 to wound rr 1 to wound with demonspark
4th if you have spare point they can split
Depend what kind of list tyr plays, against some might be marginally effective, against some other can be a real pain in the ass, able to remove 2-3 units in a turn.

 blackmage wrote:

try to play sometimes and you will understand pretty well the real value of units.

Wtf is this? Really. What's the point of this? Are you monitoring and seeing that I'm/he isn't playing?

 blackmage wrote:
horror bomb is far superior than devilgaunt bomb
1st they dont need an almost 200pts delivery system

Command point or two instead

2nd they are more more resilient with a 3++ inv save

Another command point assumed

3rd they shot at +1 to wound rr 1 to wound with demonspark

Yet another command point, lol, and psychic power required

4th if you have spare point they can split

Valid, but so is spending points on the delivery system for devilgaunts

Depend what kind of list tyr plays, against some might be marginally effective, against some other can be a real pain in the ass, able to remove 2-3 units in a turn.

Devilgaunts can ignore moral too, which horrors won't, barring having skarbrand nearby.

Did I mention devilgaunts can fire twice for less command points than you've assumed for your horrors. 180 shots. It would take 2 units of 30 to equal that, and a lot more command points to deliver them, in an already command point hungry army.

Sorry but I get annoyed at the theory hammer that automatically assumes command point benefits in a dynamic game, where choosing to use them is very situational at times. Sure, give your horrors a 3++, I'll shoot at something else :/, or possibly just attempt to take away their save altogether with a psychic power

I haven't been really impressed the performance of 30 size units of troops (Daemonettes in my case). If they don't die in the shooting phase, then the morale phase will often finish off the unit. Has anyone tried running a large number of minimum size squads instead fewer max size squads?

ntin wrote:If you are worried about Tzeetch, hive fleet Kronos Neurothropes (aaannd a warlord trait I think?) could hinder their psychic phase. Pink Horror bomb is the same basic idea as Trygon devilgaunt bomb. It is hard to counter unless you just own table space.

blackmage wrote:horror bomb is far superior than devilgaunt bomb
1st they dont need an almost 200pts delivery system
2nd they are more more resilient with a 3++ inv save
3rd they shot at +1 to wound rr 1 to wound with demonspark
4th if you have spare point they can split
Depend what kind of list tyr plays, against some might be marginally effective, against some other can be a real pain in the ass, able to remove 2-3 units in a turn.

I didn't suggest one was better than the other? Only that this tactic was something that the Tyranid player could relate to.

ntin wrote:
I haven't been really impressed the performance of 30 size units of troops (Daemonettes in my case). If they don't die in the shooting phase, then the morale phase will often finish off the unit. Has anyone tried running a large number of minimum size squads instead fewer max size squads?

That's interesting to hear. I was thinking of focusing my deamon army some. At the moment I have ....

25 deamonettes , 30 bloodletters, 20 pink horrors, 5 seekers, 3 plauge drones, 10 furies of nurgle, 10 hounds, a soulgrinder, a deamon prince, the masque, skulltaker, changeling, and karanak. I also have access to a lord of change, a keeper of secrets, and 2 bloodthirsters.

I was thinking of adding more deamonettes, more seekers, and maybe some chariots of some sort. But if numbers of deamonettes have lackluster returns I may not bother.