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Yeah, it's actually not as bad as you're making it sound. You are already getting a heavy discount for the WK, and now you're making it more survivable. Tack on Fortune and it's going to be hard to put down.

Nothing stopping you adding a cheap battalion to give the CPs you need.

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, it's actually not as bad as you're making it sound. You are already getting a heavy discount for the WK, and now you're making it more survivable. Tack on Fortune and it's going to be hard to put down.

Nothing stopping you adding a cheap battalion to give the CPs you need.

I'm not saying it's bad, it's just too high a cost for my playstyle. 3 HQ is about my max, rarely 4. In order to do this combo AND have a decent amount of CPs, I'd need to take 5 HQs and spend even more CPs. Just seems like a drain on already dwindling resources.
Now, a Battalion + Super Heavy detachment netting 11CPs total is appealing, even if it requires 3 WKs

-

 Galef wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So let me get this straight, I can have a 4++ HWC WK if I...
...take 5 HQs (3 for the Command detachment for the WK to be in, 2 for the mandatory Battalion I need for CPs), spend 1 CP to give it the keyword and another CP PER TURN to transfer the Spiritseer's Invul to the WK?

Yeah, no. I think I'll pass on that. It'd be far better to just take a Skathach WK with Inferno Lance and Shield if I really want an anti-Knight shooting WK with an Invul. It may be about 100pts more, but I don't need to bleed CPs to make it work. Added bonus that it can either leave the table if needed and/or drop in on turn 2

-

To be fair, the Supreme Command of 2 Spiritseers, 1 Farseer Skyrunner, 5 Wraithblades/Guard, 1 Wave Serpent and 1 Wraithknight, in addition to (imo) Eldrad + 1 Warlock Skyrunner and 3 troops is a really nice base to start with, and will give you around 600 points to play with. Not a great deal, but, certainly enough to start adding in some other units of potential.

I guess my issue is that I rarely have more than 10CPs to spend, and blow through them by turn 3 on stuff like Linked Fire, Fire and Fade, Lightning reflexes, etc. All strats I have found to be mandatory, not to mention the Command point reroll for the odd roll of 1 or 2 on something that only needed a 3+

In order to do this combo, it would require me to:
A) intentionally take detachments that yield slightly less CPs than my typical lists (although still 9 as you described instead of the 10 I usually get)
B) use those fewer CPs before the game starts for the Wraithhost Keyword (now down to only 8CPs) and each turn for the Stratagem (7,6,5)

So order to get a WK a 4++, I look at it as a 5+CP investment. Is 5 or more CPs worth it? Not to me, and not when other WKs can get a 5++

-

To be fair, if you are taking WKx3 you aren't spending any CP on linked fire as you can't afford fire prisms. Now something I just thought of for you that would allow you to take 2x HWC and still get a 5++ is the Skyshield Landing Pad fortification. It will cost you 110 points, but you would have enough room for at least two WK and some other support. Then you can do a Battalion/Supreme Cmd/Fortification Network in a 2k list. The points will be tight, but its doable.

 mokoshkana wrote:
To be fair, if you are taking WKx3 you aren't spending any CP on linked fire as you can't afford fire prisms.

True, but I can easily see the Command reroll being needed more for fewer units that have more important rolls (specifically 2d6 shot rolls)

 mokoshkana wrote:
Now something I just thought of for you that would allow you to take 2x HWC and still get a 5++ is the Skyshield Landing Pad fortification. It will cost you 110 points, but you would have enough room for at least two WK and some other support. Then you can do a Battalion/Supreme Cmd/Fortification Network in a 2k list. The points will be tight, but its doable.

And I did this very thing in 7E. I even have an Eldar Landing pad that I'd love to use again:
I'll have to search for the rules though.

-

 Galef wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, it's actually not as bad as you're making it sound. You are already getting a heavy discount for the WK, and now you're making it more survivable. Tack on Fortune and it's going to be hard to put down.

Nothing stopping you adding a cheap battalion to give the CPs you need.

I'm not saying it's bad, it's just too high a cost for my playstyle. 3 HQ is about my max, rarely 4. In order to do this combo AND have a decent amount of CPs, I'd need to take 5 HQs and spend even more CPs. Just seems like a drain on already dwindling resources.
Now, a Battalion + Super Heavy detachment netting 11CPs total is appealing, even if it requires 3 WKs

-

Sure, it won't fit everyone's playstyle, but it's nice that it now is a viable option which it wasn't before. I'm sticking with the suncannon knight at 431pts with starcannon shoulders. I won't need it in a specialist detachment.
I'm probably going to give the Spearhead detachment a whirl with 3 sword wraithlords at 95pts each. Probably stack a large wraith axe unit in there too.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Yeah, it's actually not as bad as you're making it sound. You are already getting a heavy discount for the WK, and now you're making it more survivable. Tack on Fortune and it's going to be hard to put down.

Nothing stopping you adding a cheap battalion to give the CPs you need.

I'm not saying it's bad, it's just too high a cost for my playstyle. 3 HQ is about my max, rarely 4. In order to do this combo AND have a decent amount of CPs, I'd need to take 5 HQs and spend even more CPs. Just seems like a drain on already dwindling resources.
Now, a Battalion + Super Heavy detachment netting 11CPs total is appealing, even if it requires 3 WKs

-

Sure, it won't fit everyone's playstyle, but it's nice that it now is a viable option which it wasn't before. I'm sticking with the suncannon knight at 431pts with starcannon shoulders. I won't need it in a specialist detachment.
I'm probably going to give the Spearhead detachment a whirl with 3 sword wraithlords at 95pts each. Probably stack a large wraith axe unit in there too.

Yeah, if you can get Protect and Fortune on the Wraithblades, they are going to be pretty impervious to damage. You could even throw in a bone singer for an extra smite and the ability to heal those wraith back up as needed.

Do we know if the wraithlords base cost 83 or 93? The images I've seen are too blurred to make out.

 Galef wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So let me get this straight, I can have a 4++ HWC WK if I...
...take 5 HQs (3 for the Command detachment for the WK to be in, 2 for the mandatory Battalion I need for CPs), spend 1 CP to give it the keyword and another CP PER TURN to transfer the Spiritseer's Invul to the WK?

Yeah, no. I think I'll pass on that. It'd be far better to just take a Skathach WK with Inferno Lance and Shield if I really want an anti-Knight shooting WK with an Invul. It may be about 100pts more, but I don't need to bleed CPs to make it work. Added bonus that it can either leave the table if needed and/or drop in on turn 2

-

To be fair, the Supreme Command of 2 Spiritseers, 1 Farseer Skyrunner, 5 Wraithblades/Guard, 1 Wave Serpent and 1 Wraithknight, in addition to (imo) Eldrad + 1 Warlock Skyrunner and 3 troops is a really nice base to start with, and will give you around 600 points to play with. Not a great deal, but, certainly enough to start adding in some other units of potential.

I guess my issue is that I rarely have more than 10CPs to spend, and blow through them by turn 3 on stuff like Linked Fire, Fire and Fade, Lightning reflexes, etc. All strats I have found to be mandatory, not to mention the Command point reroll for the odd roll of 1 or 2 on something that only needed a 3+

In order to do this combo, it would require me to:
A) intentionally take detachments that yield slightly less CPs than my typical lists (although still 9 as you described instead of the 10 I usually get)
B) use those fewer CPs before the game starts for the Wraithhost Keyword (now down to only 8CPs) and each turn for the Stratagem (7,6,5)

So order to get a WK a 4++, I look at it as a 5+CP investment. Is 5 or more CPs worth it? Not to me, and not when other WKs can get a 5++

-

Well, the CP outlay for the WK would be 3CP, then an additional 2 per turn after the first use of the strat. I'd also argue with the 600 points you could easily pick up a 3rd detachment for another 1CP or, if you feel like the WK and Guard/Blades can carry, another battalion to help you play the mission.


I do agree though, that, the chances you'll take a HWC WK over one of the other types is pretty slim, but, the opportunity is there, and going from a 5++ to a 4++ has saved thousands of Knights since their codex was released. Sure, it costs an extra cp, but, also works in combat.

Any more thoughts on either the Skyshield LP or Voidshield Generator?
Now that WKs are a bit more playable, either of these Forts might make them that much better. Or even adding a Fort to any Eldar army.

VSG seems kinda pricey, but gives a 4++ to a bigger bubble of units. SLP is a bit more affordable, but only provided a 5++, which many units might already have.
The bonus for either in a list with a WK is that it's more T8 to try an draw fire away from the WK
But I don't think either are worth it for just 1 WK. 2 maybe, and only the HWC WKs.

-

vindicare0412 wrote:
Do we know if the wraithlords base cost 83 or 93? The images I've seen are too blurred to make out.

I made a list of the changes with reductions which you can get a few pages back but here's the direct link: LINK

It's 85 points, for what it's worth.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

vindicare0412 wrote:
Do we know if the wraithlords base cost 83 or 93? The images I've seen are too blurred to make out.

I made a list of the changes with reductions which you can get a few pages back but here's the direct link: LINK

It's 85 points, for what it's worth.

thanks! missed it under the spoiler tag

 Galef wrote:
Any more thoughts on either the Skyshield LP or Voidshield Generator?
Now that WKs are a bit more playable, either of these Forts might make them that much better. Or even adding a Fort to any Eldar army.

VSG seems kinda pricey, but gives a 4++ to a bigger bubble of units. SLP is a bit more affordable, but only provided a 5++, which many units might already have.
The bonus for either in a list with a WK is that it's more T8 to try an draw fire away from the WK
But I don't think either are worth it for just 1 WK. 2 maybe, and only the HWC WKs.

-

I'm not sure where you are seeing the VSG gives a 4++ as BS tells me its only a 5++. Now the way I read the VSG, it would benefit from its own aura, so even though it has 2 less wounds than the Landing Pad, it would be more survivable with its better save. I think the landing pad is better at an 80pt discount. Don't forget a 2x Deathshroud Cannon SWK can benefit from the 5++ if you want to start it on the board or drop it into your zone on Turn 2.

 mokoshkana wrote:
I'm not sure where you are seeing the VSG gives a 4++ as BS tells me its only a 5++.

I'm looking at a leaked datasheet from when the Index dropped, but the VSG gives 4++ between 10-18 wounds. Once it drops to 9, it only grants a 5++. 4 or less only a 6++
So unless an FAQ changed that, I think that's still the way it works.

In a way, that kinda works in it's favor (for WKs) as it encourages opponents to try a shoot at it (instead of the WKs) to drop the save.
But the SLP gives a 5++ until it's dead, so that's a plus for it too.

I actually have Eldar versions of both...and 3 WKs. So I'm theory hammering several combos to see what works (on paper/in my head at least)
It's tough, as I wouldn't want WKs sitting back all game since much of their cost is in those Titanic feet. If I just want to sit back, I'd just use Prisms (like my normal list does)

For the VSG, perhaps I can deploy it at the edge of my DZ and on turn 1 move the WKS to the edge of it's Aura (so that enemy units cannot move within the aura)
By turn 3 if I haven't neutralized all threat to the WKs, the VSG won't matter as I've probably lost already. But if I have neutralize most of the threats, the WK can move forward and charge remaining units.

-

any honorable mentions for 3rd party eldar(ish) chainswords, have a veritable bucket of unassembled ancient metal body plastic arms guardians but hardly any chainswords

anyone have an easy recipe for elder Bastions? I think they are T9 and 20 wounds and a beast to kill.....throw 10 dark reapers inside with about 8 storm guardians when it goes boom to soak up damage and to screen the Aspect warriors.

For 160 points and some quad guns.....I think it would be a good go.

Would a home made one of foam board or resin be permitted in most tournaments???

 admironheart wrote:
anyone have an easy recipe for elder Bastions? I think they are T9 and 20 wounds and a beast to kill.....throw 10 dark reapers inside with about 8 storm guardians when it goes boom to soak up damage and to screen the Aspect warriors.

For 160 points and some quad guns.....I think it would be a good go.

Would a home made one of foam board or resin be permitted in most tournaments???

I have a DE one. I have used for fun, nothing for comp games, as its easier to kill than you would think, especially vs re-roll meta and Smash Captains (they auto hit you in melee). It has been destroyed by turn 2 every game so far, some games turn 1.

It is slightly skinnier than a normal Bastion (1" skinnier actually) but i did that kinda on purpose as its DE and DE are skinny Elves.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS here is another pic along with Void Shield Generator




Yes they are painted poorly b.c i didnt care they are for friendly games
.

very nice.

For an Dark Eldar I have a 13" heavy obelisk on a diaz with 4 cut bits from a raider drivers seat on the corners....they look very much like yours.

Oh... if it still had the escape hatch rule i would totally play it more often.

That thing won me games in 7th. To the point my local would target the Bastion first even if there was on Kabal warriors in it lol.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
any honorable mentions for 3rd party eldar(ish) chainswords, have a veritable bucket of unassembled ancient metal body plastic arms guardians but hardly any chainswords

I tought about making my own silicon nolds and use the Striking scorps as base ( the arm looks like guardian armor anyway) but i need to find some decent shuriken pistol for left arms ( unless i kitbash some from harlies and guardians arms.)

Tzaangor chainswords are easy to pick up (no one uses them!) and just need the tzeentch icon scraped off. They can definitely pass for aeldari.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
any honorable mentions for 3rd party eldar(ish) chainswords, have a veritable bucket of unassembled ancient metal body plastic arms guardians but hardly any chainswords

I tought about making my own silicon nolds and use the Striking scorps as base ( the arm looks like guardian armor anyway) but i need to find some decent shuriken pistol for left arms ( unless i kitbash some from harlies and guardians arms.)

yep pondering giving blue stuff and milliput a go, just thinking the teeth might be a bit shaky

I would love to get some feedback the these 2 lists I worked up:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/768172.page#10267470

 Galef wrote:
I would love to get some feedback the these 2 lists I worked up:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/768172.page#10267470

Disclaimer I haven't played any 8th so might be behind the times;

The re-roll relic stone seems a more reliable / safer than the Wing, as zooming up and fluffing the Jinx is sad times

Still think S-Cannons over Scatters, especially with the Doom/Jinx combo

More Banhee's

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Still think S-Cannons over Scatters, especially with the Doom/Jinx combo

My issue is now that 2 Scatters are only 1pt more than 1 Starcannon, you either get 8 Str6 AP0 shots, or 2 Str6 AP-3 D:d3 shots
With the Suncannon and 4 total HWCs, I feel more lacking in the # of shots department than the power of shots.
But normally, I'd agree

-

do you think your knights could get tarpitted with so few screening units?

I don't know how they play....so I'm just throwing that out there.

Knights don't care much for tarpits, they move over infantry and still shoot after falling back from CC. Unless you missposition so hard you're swamped by the entire enemy army. But even then you could just stomp away happily. A list with three knights might also happily sacrifice one of those to tarpits for ultimate freedom of movement with the rest.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Knights don't care much for tarpits, they move over infantry and still shoot after falling back from CC. Unless you missposition so hard you're swamped by the entire enemy army. But even then you could just stomp away happily. A list with three knights might also happily sacrifice one of those to tarpits for ultimate freedom of movement with the rest.

They care about tarpitting by being in front but not in combat thus denying more valuable targets being charged though. That's something. Though there's 2 issues for that here.

a) the knights are often characters so you need to be 3.1" away, not 1.1" or you'll get charged and stomped on your turn.
b) eldars don't have that much models so especially keeping problem a in mind that is albeit tricky sometimes. But surrounding knight with 20 guardians to save more valuable target from being stomped/objective being taken COULD be worth it sometimes.

So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

tneva82 wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Knights don't care much for tarpits, they move over infantry and still shoot after falling back from CC. Unless you missposition so hard you're swamped by the entire enemy army. But even then you could just stomp away happily. A list with three knights might also happily sacrifice one of those to tarpits for ultimate freedom of movement with the rest.

They care about tarpitting by being in front but not in combat thus denying more valuable targets being charged though. That's something. Though there's 2 issues for that here.

a) the knights are often characters so you need to be 3.1" away, not 1.1" or you'll get charged and stomped on your turn.
b) eldars don't have that much models so especially keeping problem a in mind that is albeit tricky sometimes. But surrounding knight with 20 guardians to save more valuable target from being stomped/objective being taken COULD be worth it sometimes.

They were talking about Galef's 3x WK list, not imperial knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trashpanda wrote:
So what do you guys think of the warp hunter now it's down to roughly the same as a fire prism?

D6 auto hits at s10 ap-4 d6d at 12" looks like the money shot for me. Granted it doesn't get a strategm or shoot twice like the prism but packs a nasty punch.

I'm thinking of taking 2 as counter attackers, seem to be facing a lot of storm fangs/ravens getting in my face turn 1 atm and the auto hits helps negate any hit modifiers they are stacking.

I don't like the idea of a pricey tank that has random shots. I'd rather take something that is more reliable.

Range too short.