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So I was thinking, what would people thinking to 'Juggernaut Cavalry' for World Eaters? They'd work on a very similar line to Thunderwolf Cavalry (just imagine these two duelling, that'd be sweeeeet!), but have the bonus of Khorne Bezerker profiles, something like this I imagine:

Cost: 60pts

Squad Size: 1-5

WS 5. BS. 4. S 5. T 5. W 2. I 4. A.4. LD. 10. Save 3+

Special Rules:
-Fleet
-Rending
-Furious Charge
-Fearless
-Rage (unless led by IC).
-Champions of Khorne - In order to 'tame' a juggernaut daemon must be champion of Khorne (etc. etc.), for the purposes of summoning Greater Daemons, each rider counts as a champion and can therefore be used to summer the GD. [Not sure why you'd want to for 60pts but still, it's fluff]
-Blessing of Khorne - the champions and the juggernauts are blessed by khorne and benefit from his disdain of sorcery and hence gain a 4+ invulnerable save against any psychic powers that may affect them.

Equipment:
-Bolt Pistol
-Chain Axe
-Power Armour
-MoK (included in profile)


You may think that for 60pts it's undercosted (possibly) and that it would rip Thunderwolf cavalry to pieces, however it does suffer from the headstrong rule and can't, unlike TWC, buy extra equipment.

Personally, I think it would be quite cool, and I'd like to imagine TWC and Juggernauts actually being fairly similar in terms of nastiness (judging by fluff)...

Your thoughts?

I like it. Without having any ranged weapon they're a melee only squad which should negate some of the "QQ it's OP"

I disagree with the Ld 10 though. Aren't Aspiring champions only 9? And your standard TWC are only 8.

Also why give them headstrong? They can't shoot anyway so why not just give them Rage? It's simpler and doesn't require a Codex: Space Puppies to look up.

OK, thanks, I've swapped the rage/headstrong bit, good call.

And they're ld10 (now added fearless) as that's what Khorne Bezerkers are!

Thnaks for the input

Ah I don't have a current chaos codex but yea if zerkers are Ld 10 & fearless give it to them.

Only one problem Juggernauts are too slow to be considered cavalry.

deviant cadaver wrote:Only one problem Juggernauts are too slow to be considered cavalry.

They've always been faster than humans and are pretty much metal rhinocerii.

I've been thinking about doing a World Eaters list using the SW codex specifically so I could run something like this, but TBH, I really wish the CSM codex had a unit similar to your idea, which is very good, I think.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

deviant cadaver wrote:Only one problem Juggernauts are too slow to be considered cavalry.

They've always been faster than humans and are pretty much metal rhinocerii.

Every current iteration of the Juggernaut has them considered Infantry. Both in Codex: CSM, And Codex: CD.

MinMax wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

deviant cadaver wrote:Only one problem Juggernauts are too slow to be considered cavalry.

They've always been faster than humans and are pretty much metal rhinocerii.

Every current iteration of the Juggernaut has them considered Infantry. Both in Codex: CSM, And Codex: CD.

Rules=/=Fluff

And both of those current "iterations" are abominations but that's neither here nor there.

Well, juggs cant be calvary (as pointed out many times). So basically your taking a zerker, mounting him on a juggernaught, giving him 2 wounds, and 2 more attacks (and rending)? Well when you consider a Bloodcrusher is 40 pts (without upgrades), comes with the same base stats but less attacks, and is ALWAYS equipped with a power weapon (not to mention immune to instant death) I really think the overall idea needs a bit of work. I'd also give them the option of something to give them invun saves, and something anti-psyker (like kharne or khorne demons have). Also, the champions ability seems just tacked on, and honestly it really WOULD never get used. So heres an idea;

- Mark of the Blood God - Model is immune to all psychic powers without a strength. Any power that has a strength the model gains a 2+ invunerable save.
- Blessing of Khorne - The model is blessed by Khorne to fight through even the most viscious wounds. The model is immune to instant death and gains a 5+ invunerable save while in close combat.

So, I'd do this;

Cost: 35 points a model

WS 5 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 2 I 4 A 3 LD 10 Save 3+

Special rules:
- Furious Charge
- Fearless

Equipment:
- Chain Axe
- Bolt Pistol
- Power Armor
- IoK (included in profile)

Options: 1 model may be upgraded to an Aspiring Champion of Khorne for an additional 20 points. He may choose any of the following;
- Replace Chainaxe with a Power Weapon for 10 points or a Power Fist for 15 points.
- Any models may be upgraded with Mark of the Blood God for 10 points a model.
- The unit may be given Blessing of Khorne for 10 points a model.

So we have a Khorne Zerker base with 1 more str, 1 more toughness, 1 more wound, and 1 more base attack.
- Replace Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol for 10 points.

This gives us basically a khorne zerker on a juggernaught. Due to the fact they're slow, have a massive base, and have no invun to shooting (plus a 3+ save only) makes them worse than Twolf Calv. At the same time, however, they're cheap, tough as nails in CC, can pop tanks, and are fluffy. I mean we have a guy with 5 attacks on the charge at str 6, with a champion option who can take a PF, and the ability to grant the unit immunity to ID and 5+ invuns in CC? seems pretty good to me! Note that with upgrades it would probably be around 45 points a model, plus a champion, so the unit itself would be around 200 points, which is sufficient I think.

Seriously, if you want to run a World Eaters list with Hell hounds and juggers, just use the Co:SW.

If you instead want an all Zerker army, wait for Co:BA.

Personally i am going to be using Codex BA for my world eaters mainly,

But realistically, why not just add Juggernaut mounts onto Khorne Berzerkers. + the points of the mounts to the base points of the Berzerkers. Really that is what they would be.

IMO, they should have MoK too, not just an IoK. Otherwise you can technically get normal marines riding around on Juggernauts.

Lose Cavalry, less points but give them Fleet instead.

Juggers have always been 6" movement compared to say Slanneshi mounts.

Well, I dont intend to use this, it's just an idea and I guess potential should there be a Legions codex.

Well, I think swapping cavalry with fleet is a good call [edited on OP].

and @Zid, I feel what you have suggested makes them way too cheap for what they can accomplish. I mean, they're 15pts less than TWC, but have Fearless, Furious charge and WS5, even with a champion, they would cost less than TWC and could potentially rip them to pieces.

it is basically taking a zerker (champion) and putting him on a juggernaut, I struggle to see what else it would be! I dont have the Daemons codex so I cant really compare them to blood crushers, it was intended as something for CSM codex (Legions) rather than the daemons.

I think, fleet, 4 attacks base, an additional bolt pistol and say a 4+ or 5+ ward against psychic power sounds fair (still get 6, str 6 rending attacks on the charge each), and in contrast to your opinion, I feel this would defeat TWC, whilst the way TWC has wargear available keeps them diversified. [edited in OP]

oh, and yeah the champions thing is effectively just strapped on there, but hey, people want fluffy rules, you dont pay extra for it and you dont have to use it so I struggle to see the complaint in my opinion, other than it's a pretty useless rule unless you're desperate to get a GD daemon out...

Anyways, just my thoughts, keep the CC coming by all means.

Juggernaught Cavalry sound awesome although can you imagine how much GW will charge for one model....holds onto chair for support