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My Broadside Bash thoughts are up on my blog:
http://blackmoors40k.blogspot.com/

Game # 1

I show up at and the first 3 games are arranged by our judge scored comp. With 0 being cheesy, and 6 being fluffy, the 2 judged scored me a 5 and a 6, so my first three games are against fluffy armies. That just shows you one of the many flaws of comp scoring. The judged scored my army well for comp, but my army is very tough, so I will play against 3 armies that I have no business lining up against. That is one of the reasons why I felt that I scored so poorly in my player scored comp is because I was playing against armies that I had no business playing against.

Here is my army:

HQ
Avatar
Eldrad

Elite
6 Harliquins w/2 Fusion Pistols, 6 kisses
Shadowseer W/Kiss
Troupe Leader w/Power Weapon

Troops
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance

3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor

Fast Attack
7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdraw

7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdraw

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers

3 War Walkers w/Scatter Lasers


I changed it around from the Wild West Shootout. I took off some of the War Walkers and falcon and to make up for the loss of strength 6 shooting I added Warp Spiders, and for anti-tank I added Wraithlords. It gives me some mobility and some resiliency, to try to make my army a bit better.

On to the batreps!

So I find my first table and my opponent is Charlie Nichols. Charlie is one of the best players in LA, and I have tangled with him a time or two in the past. The last time I think we played was at the 2006 LVGT;
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/169568.page

Here is his list:

Charlie’s Space Wolf list:

HQ
Logan Grimnar

Elite
Venerable Dreadnought w/Plasma Cannon and Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

8 Wolf Scouts w/Meltagun, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon

Wolf Guard (Goes with the first 3 troops)
Wolf Guard w/Power Fist, Combi-Melta
Wolf Guard w/Power Fist, Combi-Melta
Wolf Guard w/Power Fist, Combi-Flamer

Troops
12 Bloodclaws w/Powerfist, Meltagun

8 Grey Hunters Pack w/Meltagun
1 Grey Hunter w/Mark of Wulfen
Rhino

8 Grey Hunters Pack w/Meltagun
1 Grey Hunter w/Mark of Wulfen
Rhino

8 Grey Hunters Pack w/Meltagun
1 Grey Hunter w/Mark of Wulfen
Rhino

10 Grey Hunters Pack w/2 Plasmaguns


Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusaider

5 Long Fangs w/1 Missile Launcher, 2 Lascannons, 2 Heavy Bolters
1 Squad Leader


Here is mistake #1. I have not played against the new Space Wolves, and looking at his army, I thought that I could easily crush it, so I was way overconfident.

Scenario: Ground Control
Mission: Table Quarters- Scoring units are the only units that can hold or contest table quarters
Special Rules: Deep Strike, Reserves, Infiltrate, Scout, Outflank, Random Game Length
Deployment: Table Quarters


I win the dice roll to go first and I give it to my opponent. That is mistake #2.

Set up:
Space Wolf set up:


Eldar setup:

I was afraid of the wolf scouts so I set up a lot farther forward than I should have. That is mistake #3.

The face off:





Turn #1

Space Wolf top of turn #1
His drop pod drops on my left flank and his dreadnought flames and shoots up some Guardians and Warp Spiders.

He drives forward and pops smoke. He shoots his Long Fangs at my War Walkers and Stuns one.
(No pictuure)

Eldar bottom of turn #1

I shoot up his dreadnought and take it out. My War Walkers shoot at his long fangs and kills 3 and they break, but they do not run off the board. Everything else shoots at his tanks and do nothing.



Turn #2

Space Wolf top of turn #2

He bum rushes forward and Logan and the Bloodclaws get out of the Land Raider and attack my Guardians and my Warp Spiders and take them out. He has a squad of Grey Hunters hit a squad of my Guardians and War Walkers. He has the Powerfist against the War Walkers and kills one and wiped out the Guardians.



Eldar bottom of turn #2
This is where I get myself out of my sloppy set up and turn the game around.

His Grey Hunters are still locked up with my War Walkers, so I can’t shoot them, so besides a few shots at his tanks that do nothing, I get ready for assault.

I hit Logan and his band of merry men with doom and I go after him with my fortuned Harlequins and a Wraithlord. Where they were going to put a hurting on them, they end up killing just a few when I rolled bad, and the Harlequins get butchered, and there are only a few lived to jump out of combat.

My Avatar and Eldrad go after the Grey Hunters squad and the Avatar only kills two, and Eldrad only kills one and his powerfist takes out the War Walkers.

I throw my second Wraithlord into Logan fight and he kills off both of my Wraithlords.

Mistake #4 My Warp Spiders jump into the forest into the middle of the table forgetting that he still has a squad in a rhino.



Turn #3

Space Wolf top of turn #3

He goes after my Jetbikes with his Long Fangs and takes them out. He hits my Harlequins with random stormbolters and kills them.

Logan jumps back into his ride, and the bloodclaws move to hold the table quarter to my right.

His squad jumps out of the rhino and kills my Warp Spyders.

The Avatar whiffs and kills only 1 Grey Hunter keeping him locked in combat.



Eldar bottom of turn #3

Looking around, I have nothing left to move. My Avatar is locking into combat because he rolled so badly and was unable to lock up the fresh squad, but Eldard and him were able to finally kill the last Grey Hunters

At this time I realize that he is going after my troops, I need to preserve my last one and I start to run for cover behind the drop pod.



Turn #4

Space Wolf top of turn #4
He mounts up in his rhino and takes off.

He goes after my Guardians with his Land Raider and kills a couple.

(No picture)

Eldar bottom of turn #4

I take out his Rhino and his guys spill out.



Turn #5

After turn 5 we started to hurry because the time is running out.

Here is how it ended:
My Avatar knocked out all of the Land Raiders weapons and immobilized it (I have very bad luck against Land Raiders), and took out the Grey Hunter squad before Logan took him down.



Eldrad threw himself into his last Grey Hunter squad and fought them to a standstill.



So the end game was I had one table quarter with my remaining Guardians hiding behind the drop pod and he had 2 table quarters with his Grey Hunters and another with the remaining Blood Claws for a major loss for me.

Well, I can sum up this loss to my hubris. I was way over confident going into this game. I had not lost with my Eldar in…why I do not know when the last time I lost with them, I think is had been over a year.

I should have respected Charlie a lot more. He is a real good player and I took him lightly. I let him go first, and I deployed very sloppy. There is a way to set up to defend against an assault army and in my overconfidence I did not bother with it. Not only that, but he did what no one else has ever done, and that was go for my troops. He really went after them every chance he got and that almost assured him of a win.

Nice report! Just out of curiosity, why did you jump out of assault with your Harlequins after your charge? The standard doctrine seems to be to try and hit and run only after enemy assault phases.

Also, what gave you the impression that his list was weak? It seems to me that he didn't really use very many "wolfy" things and that a standard SM list along the same lines would have done about the same or perhaps better, though you did mention being thrown off by the Wolf Scouts.

Just out of curiosity Allan, did he play very slow?

I find some of his unit choices questionable, but since soft scores ruled the day that could be why its such a wonky wolf list.

I had intended to go to this event, but the drive, entry fee and lodging combined with what looked to be an awful scoring system put me off.

Whatever one unit of wolf scouts elect to do to you is desirable to letting the rest of the army get closer. One more turn of shooting probably would have stopped his armor before it hit your lines.

Thanks for the write up.

He outplayed you, It happens to us all, I got my nids gunned down by basic CSM , a good humbling is better than a win sometimes.

Seems like he had a solid army with a solid game plan.

Fetterkey wrote:Nice report! Just out of curiosity, why did you jump out of assault with your Harlequins after your charge? The standard doctrine seems to be to try and hit and run only after enemy assault phases.

Most of the time you do not hit-and-run after the first combat because they will just rapid fire you to death, or they will charge you in their turn. I had the Wraithlord still in combat with the unit, and so I thought i could get away and hit them again next turn because Harlequins only have strength 3, and have very few attacks when they are not charging. I lost my shadowseer though, and it allowed him to target that unit and kill it with shooting.

Also, what gave you the impression that his list was weak? It seems to me that he didn't really use very many "wolfy" things and that a standard SM list along the same lines would have done about the same or perhaps better, though you did mention being thrown off by the Wolf Scouts.

IMO if I played right, I should have been able to easily beat him. I do not want to take anything away for Charlie, but my army was just a bad match-up for him. A lot of it has to do with him having only 3 troop transports and very little shooting. There was not much he was going to do to me at range, and if I could slow down his transports I should easily beat him. Not only that, but when he got to me I should have been able to beat him with my counter assault units. I did not set up right though, so he was able to multi-charge units, and he got stuck in combat so I could not use my firepower to soften him up before charging.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mundar wrote:Just out of curiosity Allan, did he play very slow?

Perhaps...I am slow too though. Most of my games had trouble with the time limit.

I find some of his unit choices questionable, but since soft scores ruled the day that could be why its such a wonky wolf list.

I think a lot of it had to do with what he had painted.

I had intended to go to this event, but the drive, entry fee and lodging combined with what looked to be an awful scoring system put me off.

After the Broadside Bash last year I almost did not go. If I had to choose one event to go to in LA, I would go to the So Cal Slaughter.

Whatever one unit of wolf scouts elect to do to you is desirable to letting the rest of the army get closer. One more turn of shooting probably would have stopped his armor before it hit your lines.

I should have gone first and set up farther back. That would have given me 3 turns of shooting at him to soften him up and to stagger his assault, and should have put a hurting on him.

Thank you for the report, I'm looking forward to read about the other games!
Do you deploy the War Walkers like this more often, I presume you do this to get a possible cover save from the Wraith Lords and to be in Guide range of Eldrad?

I only asked because when he and I played at the wild west shootout, I found he was probably the slowest player I've ever encountered in a tournament. So I figured that could've been why your game ended early.

Charlie played just fine in our game at the Bash. We finished just in a time but I found you just need to keep him focused. He's easily distracted, especially if he's been drinking

Charlie is known for being a wee bit slow, but nothing bad. He is a good guy, and a really good player.

I laughed when I saw he and Blackmoor get paired up game 1, that was funny.

In your listing of his army, it shows he had 3 squads of GH's in rhinos and 1 LRC, but in the photos, all I see are 1 LRC and 2 rhinos. Is it a mistake on his list or did he forget 1 troop choice?

Good battle. Unfortunate for you to underestimate the wolves. They are a very strong and balanced army, though I think Charlie's list isn't really one of the more competitive ones out there.

He seems like he got to your army really fast.

I like your other list better Blackmoor, the one with 2 units of war walkers and the fire dragons. The grav/dragons give you a nice answer for the odd cheese filled land raider (which the bright lances don't always do well with) and 2 x war walker units with lasers puts out a much better rate of fire at longer range. The spiders are a great unit and look more resilient on paper but I think the range on the walkers in this foot based list is invaluable. I don't think the 2 wrathlords are pulling their weight either, there just too slow and don't do enough damage with 2 attacks in combat and the shot or two a turn.

On the space wolf army.... I believe this is a good list to bring against eldar, eldar players love facing armies with few elite units, this army looks more balanced and has enough troops to make anybody sweat in an objective based game.

The great thing about 40k is that things rarely happen like they are "supposed to" I was just playing a game last night where my unit of dual multi laser war walkers put a staggering 15 wounds on a 5 man terminator squad only to watch them make every single save. In the same shooting phase 7 guardians shot off an un-guided un-doom assisted volley and killed three of those same terminators.... its just the way it goes sometimes.

Makes the game interesting..

Well, I can sum up this loss to my hubris. I was way over confident going into this game. I had not lost with my Eldar in…why I do not know when the last time I lost with them, I think is had been over a year.

this is why you lost, way to over confident (that and winning the wild west shootout increased that even more). Also I noticed you said you havent played your eldar since the WWshootout, so saying you havent lost in over a year isnt saying much if you havent played in 4 months lol.

Anyways, good batrep, nice pics, I think your list is weak, guardians die to a stiff wind, wraithlords cost way to much for what they do, and no fire dragons in an 1850 list? Not sure why you wanted to go second?......or why you deployed your guardians in a nice flamer formation.....at 1850 you have basically 0 AT, and it showed in the bat rep. Your other list was definatly better than this one.

This isnt meant to be harsh, but I think playing a 4e list in 5th really showed here. Look forward to seeing the other bat reps, hopefully 2 wins will make me look like an ass

Blackmoor's list has attracted a lot of haters-- I still remember the discussions after the Wild West Shootout-- but it seems to work well for him, and I've seen similar lists do well under different commanders. I don't think the list archetype is really as bad as you think, though I agree there are some suboptimal elements here.

While Guardians aren't the greatest troops, you don't need to be great in order to claim objectives, and picking them off is harder that it seems with 5th edition cover. Honestly, I think that Blackmoor had a theoretical advantage in this matchup, and his analysis of the game seems pretty much spot on. The Wolf Scouts won this one for the SW player, regardless of what they actually did in game (if anything)-- an extra turn of shooting would have been pretty brutal against that list, especially since the SW player had essentially no fire support and his one unit of Long Fangs had to retreat on turn one.

I don't agree that this Eldar build is weak.

In fact the build is very strong its just like he said and the battled showed, he set up and then expected to win. No if you follow his other battle reports like I do you will see he takes most people out behind the wood shed and does evil things to them with this type of army.

1. Fortuned Avatars are amazing and combined with Eldrad you have an HQ selection that is almost always going to be around at the end of the game. Not to mention shut down the opponents psychic phase. I can't think of two HQ choices (besides maybe a tervigon and Hive tyrant) that help an army more.

2. Yeah guardians are weak alone and unprotected but with cover saves and while inside that fearless bubble the Avatar creates they are a real pain to deal with. Only somebody that has not played against an army like this would make such a cocky remark about being able to take care of them easily. The army I have been playing lately has anywhere between 20 and 60 of the fearless little fellas and realistically opponents are to buisy shooting at the elements that are shooting his army to pieces (ie war walkers, fire dragons ect) to be able to worry about them until its too late. This space wolf player just knew what he was doing buy targeting them and as you can see he still didn't end up killing them all which is testament to their resilience, the classic resilience by numbers. The difference is the space wolf player played the mission where the eldar looked to be banking on tabling the other army so objectives where given little regard till it was too late.

3. Strength 6 shooting.. The eldar put out st 6 shots with the best of them, it can kill transports and light vehicles, decimate hoards and even kills marines/terminators and Monstrous creatures due to the volume of wounds. If you notice the space wolf player got rid of the st 6 threats (war walkers and spiders) asap and it paid off.

I'm guessing that after the humbling 1st round and if he takes the time to set up properly he creams the next two players he faces unless the mission is wacky. I can't wait to see.... always a good read anyhow so thanks Blackmoor for posting.

I hear the guy with the most battle points had an almost identical eldar army to Blackmoor's. He had 3 massacres and 2 major victories. Hist list:

H.Q.
Eldrad
Avatar

Elites:
Harlequins, 7 kisses, Shadowseer, Troupe Leader with P.Weapon

Troops:
Pathfinders x 5
Dire Avengers x 10, Exarch, B.Storm, Defend
W.Serpent, B.Lance, S.Stones
Guardians x 10, B.Lance, Warlock, Conceal, S.Spear, S.Seer
Guardians x 10, B.Lance
Jet Bikes, S.Cannon

Fast:
W.Spiders, Exarch, Dual Spinners, P.Blades, Withdraw

Heavy:
Wraithlord, EML, B.Lance
Wraithlord, EML, B.Lance
Warwalkers x 2, 2 x S.Cannons, 2 x S.Lasers

One thing that I forgot to say in the batrep...

The Wolf Scouts did come on the board on turn #3, but they entered on the right table edge (due to a bad dice roll) and never were a factor, and never made it into a picture.

Mafty wrote:

I think your list is weak, guardians die to a stiff wind, wraithlords cost way to much for what they do, and no fire dragons in an 1850 list? Not sure why you wanted to go second?......or why you deployed your guardians in a nice flamer formation.....at 1850 you have basically 0 AT, and it showed in the bat rep. Your other list was definatly better than this one.

This isnt meant to be harsh, but I think playing a 4e list in 5th really showed here. Look forward to seeing the other bat reps, hopefully 2 wins will make me look like an ass

In your own words, "lol you really have no idea how to play tournament 40k do you? I see you thought my foot eldar army was weak in another thread also. Well it seems those weak foot eldar armies are winning tournaments and those 20+ kp SW lists aren't. lol See you at the Ard Boyz finals this year, maybe not. lol"

Yeah Toby has been running that list for the last few years. Blackmoor's and his list are just straight up gross. If used properly they are a world of trouble for most of the armies out there. SW's are one of the worse match-ups for them but in this case it seems that Allen got over confident.

See ya at the Slaughter in Space 2 Allen

Blackmoor I think you summed it up well. Ignore the Jack Ape, your list is interesting and I understand you probably tailored it for comp. I look forward to the rest of your batreps.

G

Mafty wrote:

Well, I can sum up this loss to my hubris. I was way over confident going into this game. I had not lost with my Eldar in…why I do not know when the last time I lost with them, I think is had been over a year.

this is why you lost, way to over confident (that and winning the wild west shootout increased that even more). Also I noticed you said you havent played your eldar since the WWshootout, so saying you havent lost in over a year isnt saying much if you havent played in 4 months lol.

Anyways, good batrep, nice pics, I think your list is weak, guardians die to a stiff wind, wraithlords cost way to much for what they do, and no fire dragons in an 1850 list? Not sure why you wanted to go second?......or why you deployed your guardians in a nice flamer formation.....at 1850 you have basically 0 AT, and it showed in the bat rep. Your other list was definatly better than this one.

This isnt meant to be harsh, but I think playing a 4e list in 5th really showed here. Look forward to seeing the other bat reps, hopefully 2 wins will make me look like an ass

I think you might be wrong on all of your points except the first one.

I got back on track after I had the overconfidence beaten out of me, and even with a loss in my first game I did end up scoring 7th out of 47 in battle points.

Now what you got to say Mafty? Come on punkin tell us all how smart you really are. We are all ears.

Great report never seen a game between these two yet but it was very interesting to see hope to see anouther by you.

A loss is a loss. Seeing some people trying to give excuses for their losses makes me feel like yawning.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Now what you got to say Mafty? Come on punkin tell us all how smart you really are. We are all ears.

what? this guy got his ass handed to him by a mediocre space wolf build, what do you want me to comment on? its a gakky eldar list, im sick of fanboys preaching how great foot eldar is. Id LOVE to play this list with my mech eldar (seriously, except I dont live in LA, or anywhere near LA).

tell you how smart i am..........hmmm no fire dragons in 1850.....there was 1 land raider, what damage did he do to that LR? oh thats right nothing.

If you think foot eldar are a viable build (i imagine you read BOLS and think that eldar article was fantastic though hahah), than your delusional. foot eldar isnt viable, any competent build will spank it, and this bat rep proves that point.

Nice Battle Reports Allen!


Charlie is indeed a great player, I've faced him twice thus far in the SoCal GW League, each game was very close and hard fought, but my Daemons carried the day.

It's very refreshing to see a player admit to his mistakes and faults during a game, so I applaud you for that! I'm sure I'll be seeing most of you at the SoCal Slaughter In Space II!!!!

Mafty wrote:

what? this guy got his ass handed to him by a mediocre space wolf build, what do you want me to comment on? its a gakky eldar list, im sick of fanboys preaching how great foot eldar is. Id LOVE to play this list with my mech eldar (seriously, except I dont live in LA, or anywhere near LA).

I will be at Adepticon. Are you near Chicago? Too bad I would not play you even if you were. I am tired of proving to people how good it is. You will have to live with your false assumptions.

tell you how smart i am..........hmmm no fire dragons in 1850.....there was 1 land raider, what damage did he do to that LR? oh thats right nothing.

I knocked all of it's weapons off and I immobilized it. It's not that I could not penitrate it or damage it, I just rolled bad. If you check out game #2. I tool out the land raider with very little problem even without fire dragons.

If you think foot eldar are a viable build (i imagine you read BOLS and think that eldar article was fantastic though hahah), than your delusional. foot eldar isnt viable, any competent build will spank it, and this bat rep proves that point.

That is not true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkish wrote:A loss is a loss. Seeing some people trying to give excuses for their losses makes me feel like yawning.

Should I just post a battle report?

I thought it would be more instructional and help out others by showing them where I went wrong.

All hail the Dark General T!

Back on topic, you are right, the list sucks which is why Blackmoor has won several RTTs with it (quite literally) from Florida to LA.

Mafty, the batreps you have posted are decent, I am not quite clear what your problem is here - does it somehow offend you that someone posted a batrep that they lost? Or that they play eldar different than you? Basically, you are just kind of coming across as a bit of a d-bag which I am fairly certain is not your point.

Som, there is kind of a BOLS hate vibe coming from him.



"i imagine you read BOLS and think that eldar article was fantastic though hahah"

Arrogant, rude, throwing out false accusations, the model of internet gamer meaness.

First off warhammer is about generalship, and blackmoor was out played. You proved with your words that you think it's only about list building.

2. You assume Blackmoor needs to even go to websites for lists. He does not check out his list of wins as Som said.

3. His list performed well, foot eldar perform well, those are fects.

3. If you think fire dragons are what make or break an eldar list...nevermind.

Please come down off of your high horse, calling people fanboys and what not.

Thanks.

I don't get this Eldar list yet. I'd probably be one of the enemy's who was overconfident intially, then walk away shaking my head after the game. Hopefully the rest of the Batrep's will show me how it works.

I've never seen Warp Spiders work out, I think that's the part I'm missing.

You can check out his other batreps by looking through the threads he has started.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/195.page

One of the things that you will notice is that no matter what army blackmoor is playing it isn't a net list (or if it is, it is because of his success with it). What he is really good at is finding units and combos in the list that don't look that good but that really are and then getting a whole lot of practice using them. He also tends to build lists that buck whatever the current trend is so that all of the lists that are built as counters toward the current meta don't really affect him.