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 Dryaktylus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
yet still one of the better Kill Team games GW made (the one during 4th was better)

The one with Kill Team versus guards?

the one in the back of the 4th Edition Rulebook

chaos0xomega wrote:
HH is still a SG game, I don't know where people keep getting the idea that its not when its been made explicitly clear in multiple places. Likewise the leaks from the influencer event a couple weeks ago indicated that there s no plan for the game to get regular edition updates and the plan is to support the game in a manner similar to AT and Necromunda - i.e. regular "splatbook" type releases.

This comes up simply because of the large amount of plastic that is released now, and some people dream of a full plastic range
in addition, some of the ForgeWorld stuff was re-branded as "Expert Level Model Kits" (started as a test to combine webshops with the relase of the Tau Codex) which stirs up rumours that HH Resin kits are coming into the regular GW shop

for GW to get the maximum profit out of the investment, going the way of the main-game edition cycle makes sense
HH is popular enough, for a lot of people it is a better 40k using more detailed rules they miss in 40k with availability being the only problem etc.
to keep it as a side game, all the work for new rules and plastic models instead of resin upgrades for exiting kits makes only sense if GW wants HH to grow

and if it stays a SG game, looking at Necromunda a regular update/re-release of the rulebook is still a thing and it is still not a reason why 10th 40k won't happen next year

Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

I'm in the same boat. A lot of the rules are rough translations of a playtest of the rules, so here's hoping that it's still the same old 1 special or 1 heavy per 5

GW wants to push their gakky idea of "mix all the weapons all the time" and "build only whats in the kit" and it's honestly disgusting.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

GW, in a rare moment of legitimate genius, made it possible to take two heavy weapons in a CSM squad in 8th ed - which was a very neat choice.

Of course, because it's GW, they had to correct this choice. White Knights and other ghouls will tell you his is fluffy, actually.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

GW, in a rare moment of legitimate genius, made it possible to take two heavy weapons in a CSM squad in 8th ed - which was a very neat choice.

Of course, because it's GW, they had to correct this choice. White Knights and other ghouls will tell you his is fluffy, actually.

FFS gw, ffs.

I certainly will not change up my new csm.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

I'm more interested what the breakpoint is at 5 models, is it special only at 5? If so my 5 man lascannon blobs will be sad. Saying that if you have some that are double special and some that are double heavy... swap one special with one heavy to meet requirements? Not sure that needs anything breaking apart unless you're all heavies or specials and potentially don't want to take them in 5's.

Dudeface wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

I'm more interested what the breakpoint is at 5 models, is it special only at 5? If so my 5 man lascannon blobs will be sad. Saying that if you have some that are double special and some that are double heavy... swap one special with one heavy to meet requirements? Not sure that needs anything breaking apart unless you're all heavies or specials and potentially don't want to take them in 5's.

I'm fairly sure it will be the same as tactical marines.

Woo. Now that they're officially chaos legionnaires again, they can be saddled with the weapon restrictions that (lorewise)... never applied to them.

Meanwhile, Hellblasters are re-creating legion support squads in defiance of the Codex Astartes, because reasons.

People ask, 'Why doesn't the game reflect the fluff?' Well you see, GW just doesn't want it to.

Chaos Marines have been following the Codex Astartes since 4th Edition.

~~ Wait And See ~~

Voss wrote:
Meanwhile, Hellblasters are re-creating legion support squads in defiance of the Codex Astartes, because reasons.

Who's gonna tell him?

JSG wrote:

Voss wrote:
Meanwhile, Hellblasters are re-creating legion support squads in defiance of the Codex Astartes, because reasons.

Who's gonna tell him?

Tell who, Bobby? He's fine with it. He's bemused that the Space Marines have been following the Codex so slavishly all this time.

I'm just amused by the dichotomy, the rulebook-bound loyalists have options and variance, and the 'chaotic' faction is hard coded to insane degree.
GW's concept of chaos is far more 'daemons of law' (with their set forms and functions) and rigid followers of a 'one true path' exemplified by each of the traitor legions.
The random tentacles are rather disruptive of the real underlying themes, to the point that they tend to feel out of place now.

Well we play an NPC faction, and coding for NPCs is tough. Can't include everything.

Btw, just looking again at the MD leaked rules:

Malefic discipline:

• DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators

• +1 to wound

• Bring back a DAEMONKIN model

• 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge

• Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it

• 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit

• +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

The 4+ inv it's the most intriguing, isn't it? At first, what you all said about the daemonkin key convinced me, but then why should a sorcerer need to invoke a posessed unit?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I'm looking at the part where it says legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and 1 special weapon each. Praying that's not the case, really really don't want that. I have 8 squads that are outfitted with double plasma guns, double flamers, double melta guns double heavy bolters and one squad double missile launchers. Now I gotta break their arms and backpacks off and give them different weapons, so fething frustrating.

If each unit is visibly distinct from the others, maybe.

But I'd take one of your plasma gunners and swap him with one of your heavy bolters, and there's two units that don't need any changes instead of a squad with two heavies and another with two specials, you now have two units with one of each- no remodeling required. Then I'd swap a flamer dude for a missile launcher dude, and that's two more units that don't need any changes. Your double meltaguns don't seem to have a corresponding double-up heavy to swap with, so one of the models in that unit might need to be modified.

I used to move the heavies and specials around for my metal sisters all the time; sometimes I'd pull all the heavies out of BSS units to field them as retributors- ditto for specials becoming dominion units.

I have seen people really theme up individual units though- so much so that this approach wouldn't work. If that's you, obviously, my suggestion won't be helpful.

It does serve as an object lesson for people though: with Crusade, I've been tempted to really kit out each unit with a theme and identity... but it does inhibit the flexibility of my toy soldiers when I can't group them up in alternative configurations... So as much as the extensive theming of individual units within the army appeals to me as both a modeler and a storyteller, it's a good idea to keep my theming discreet enough that models can still work in different configurations and arrangements when they need to.

The thing is, even if they're limiting you to the box, the rules should still allow you to take 2 heavy weapons or 2 special weapons in 10, since you can have a missile launcher and heavy bolter, or plasma gun and melta gun, or plasma gun and missile launcher. Options are there.

But, if we're going to be doom and gloom over the presence or lack of a singular weapon, I'd rather direct our doom and gloom to the fact we haven't seen any hint of the rumored Chaos Bikers.

drbored wrote:
The thing is, even if they're limiting you to the box, the rules should still allow you to take 2 heavy weapons or 2 special weapons in 10, since you can have a missile launcher and heavy bolter, or plasma gun and melta gun, or plasma gun and missile launcher. Options are there.

But, if we're going to be doom and gloom over the presence or lack of a singular weapon, I'd rather direct our doom and gloom to the fact we haven't seen any hint of the rumored Chaos Bikers.

Bikers are horribly outdated, you're not wrong. Outriders look decent and shows they could potentially do good.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

drbored wrote:
The thing is, even if they're limiting you to the box, the rules should still allow you to take 2 heavy weapons or 2 special weapons in 10, since you can have a missile launcher and heavy bolter, or plasma gun and melta gun, or plasma gun and missile launcher. Options are there.

But, if we're going to be doom and gloom over the presence or lack of a singular weapon, I'd rather direct our doom and gloom to the fact we haven't seen any hint of the rumored Chaos Bikers.

Bikers are horribly outdated, you're not wrong. Outriders look decent and shows they could potentially do good.

They're just as old as Khorne Berzerkers and older than the Defiler and Noise Marines.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Chaos_Space_Marines

I know a big part of it is my fault that I put a little too much trust in the rumors and it seems like Chaos Bikers just won't be happening right now, else they would have been revealed I think. Would love to be wrong.

As it stands, setting aside World Eaters and Emperor's Children, it's Bikers, the Defiler, and Huron Blackheart that need to be brought into the modern age. Ideally the rhino-chassis vehicles and chaos land raider too, but I'd be happy with just the Bikers and Huron Blackheart at this point.

Voss wrote:

JSG wrote:

Voss wrote:
Meanwhile, Hellblasters are re-creating legion support squads in defiance of the Codex Astartes, because reasons.

Who's gonna tell him?

Tell who, Bobby? He's fine with it. He's bemused that the Space Marines have been following the Codex so slavishly all this time.

I'm just amused by the dichotomy, the rulebook-bound loyalists have options and variance, and the 'chaotic' faction is hard coded to insane degree.
GW's concept of chaos is far more 'daemons of law' (with their set forms and functions) and rigid followers of a 'one true path' exemplified by each of the traitor legions.
The random tentacles are rather disruptive of the real underlying themes, to the point that they tend to feel out of place now.

This is extremely true. Chaos is the most orderly faction there is.

Every bloodletter is the same as every other bloodletter. Same for all the other lesser deamons or greater deamons.
Each of the chaos gods have the same structure, each of them has their lesser deamons, greater deamons, heralds, favored champions and so on. Complete homogeneity.
Chaos works according to extremely predictable patterns.

I also agree with the random tentacles. Chaos mutations should be alterations to things already present. A jewel turns into an eye. A piece of iconography turns into a real face. A spike turns into a horn. A helmet turns into a monstrous head. Tentacles and stuff like that should be sparse and added where they make sense. A posessed space marine or a rhino perhaps.

Are there really that many tentacles?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are there really that many tentacles?

In Death Guard, yes, but not really across the rest of the faction. The Chosen feature tentacles on their backpacks that help them hold extra weapons, but that's about it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are there really that many tentacles?

As said above, for the Death Guard, there are heaps. Paint up a set and you'll be surprised how often you're going "Oh... there are more. I need more Pink Horror!"

drbored wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are there really that many tentacles?

In Death Guard, yes, but not really across the rest of the faction. The Chosen feature tentacles on their backpacks that help them hold extra weapons, but that's about it.

I intend to paint those metallic, so that they look like cables. Then I'll just clip off and file away the "danglers". All better.

Dudeface wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Irritating that Legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and special weapon. I got 8 squads that are doubled up with either special weapons or heavy weapons, now I gotta change them. Praying that it's wrong or just not true so I don't have to break my fething models apart.

I'm more interested what the breakpoint is at 5 models, is it special only at 5? If so my 5 man lascannon blobs will be sad. Saying that if you have some that are double special and some that are double heavy... swap one special with one heavy to meet requirements? Not sure that needs anything breaking apart unless you're all heavies or specials and potentially don't want to take them in 5's.

That makes sense. I could get a couple squads legal without breaking anybody, because I only have 2 squads that are double heavy weapons and they're carrying heavy bolters. It just irritates me because my squads have been like this for years now, ever since 5th edition I believe. From 5th edition until 9th, Chaos Marines could do whatever they wanted with the 2 weapon slots they had. 2 heavies, 2 specials, 1 of each or nothing at all. It was great. This may sound weird but I write a lot of fluff on my legion, and the units within my army all have their own fluff and the sergeants and captains Ect all have their own names, history and personality traits. Sergeant Loris has 2 guys in his squad carrying meltaguns, it feels weird to me changing his unit after all these years. If this BS is true, then I'm just not gonna be using the doubled up squads in any games period, and that's if I even do decide to play because GW is losing me with the constant rulebook changes. And I mostly paint and and write anyway, so this edition is just more disappointing to me than anything else.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Are there really that many tentacles?

As said above, for the Death Guard, there are heaps. Paint up a set and you'll be surprised how often you're going "Oh... there are more. I need more Pink Horror!"

I don't think those are tentacles...

With some modifications, like replacing the weaponry with claws and tentacles, the new Chosen could work as possessed.

Ah yes. Chaos. The faction known for rigid equipment doctrine. Don't let the Aspiring Champion see that non standard issue gear.

How have they strayed so far?

 Eldarain wrote:
Ah yes. Chaos. The faction known for rigid equipment doctrine. Don't let the Aspiring Champion see that non standard issue gear.

How have they strayed so far?

Chapterhouse mainly.

Well that and the fact that there is always going to be some disconnect between the nature of Chaos and what can be put on the table to ensure a relatively fun (I would say balanced but someone would take offense to the word so let's stick with "fun for both players") experience. I'd be all for for a more free form army building experience, but I'll just be happy if they don't remove yet more options.

drbored wrote:
The thing is, even if they're limiting you to the box, the rules should still allow you to take 2 heavy weapons or 2 special weapons in 10, since you can have a missile launcher and heavy bolter, or plasma gun and melta gun, or plasma gun and missile launcher. Options are there.

It will be interesting to see what they do. Hopefully it won't be a Plague Marine level of silliness. Just using the old assembly instructions (not including the new Legionary sprue from Kill Team) it would be something like:

If the unit has less then 10 models, 1 model may be armed with a Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun, or Flamer

If the unit has 10 models then 1 Legionnaire may be replace their Boltgun with a Meltagun or a Missile Launcher, another Legionnaire can replace their Boltgun with a Heavy Bolter of Plasma Gun, and another Legionnaire can replace their Boltgun with a Flamer.

Up 5 Legionaries can replace their Boltgun with an Astartes Chainsword

And to think this doesn't deal with the two Legionaire Champion models in the box or all the Kill Team sprue fun! I think they might be better off adhering to the Codex Astartes.