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Here's a question:
How do you feel about people speaking in different languages at tournments? The example would be teams mates from another club speaking in a language they share, while you cannot speak the language. Here is the scenario:

Last event I was at, I witnessed something I thought was odd. I live in the United States. I witnessed during a round, 2 club mates playing at adajacent tables, who throughout the course of the round were communicating in a non-english language. It was weird to watch. It wasn't my game, but its led to some thought on my part. Were they communicate talking about the girlfriends or wives? Were they talking about their potential moves in the game? Or discussing dinner? I truly don't know.

Now I wasn't the opponent, but I could see the player getting erked. My initial thought was "its not my game, they can speak up for themself." But it raised an internal question, is it rude to ask them to stop? There is no proof what they are discussing, it could be something non-gaming relate, but it might be strategizing.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I would say if you are playing someone who is holding a discussion in another language while you play you have every right to ask them to stop. They have every right to continue speaking whatever language they want.

After that I would say going to a judge would be a good option, and make a request through the judge. At that point it will be up to the judge to make the call as to whether the behavior is appropriate at their venue.

To that point, its worth noting that in Europe I expect that this situation would occur frequently due to the proximity of countries with different languages. In north america, I think it would be less common to see, and therefore making it seem more suspicious than it really is.

That is poor form and really impolite by those players.

In a tournament they should be asked by the judges to speak english. It keeps them above suspicion.

Yes, especially tournaments in France and Germany.

Seriously, why shouldn't a player speak to a friend in a mutual native language?

You've got to be totally paranoid to think foreigners only exist in order to cheat in games of 40K.

English is a foreign language to a lot of people. Everyone at tournaments should be made to speak Esperanto.

The UK guys might have more experiance with this since their GTs attract people from all over Europe.

If they were both playing there own games I do not think it would be a big deal.

On the other hand, if one was just watching then it would have to be like a poker tournement where the rule is "English only during the play of the hand".

It reminds my of a story from my youth.

I was taking a written exam and while thinking, I was ever so gently tapping the eraser part of my pencil on the table. One of the teachers assigned to oversight approaches me and asks me to stop.
I, of course, responds; "I'm sorry. I didn't notice. Was I making any noise?"

She smiles and says; "No, but, as I know that both you and your friend sitting next to you are Eagle Scouts, we were worried you were using Morse code to communicate".

We of course wasn't.
Remember kids, you are only paranoid if They really aren't out to get you.

"Are you calling me paranoid? Oh my God. They have gotten to you too!"

Tricky. If a friend just stops by and they chat briefly, I'd say they have every right to do it in the language of their choice.

Tournament etiquette does forbid discussing tactics for a game in progress with any third party (it's actually often considered cheating), and general social etiquette says that's it's rude to maintain an ongoing conversation in a language that all the parties present don't share, if all parties have a common language.

But it's a bit of a step from observing rudeness to assuming that cheating is going on.

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes, especially tournaments in France and Germany.

Seriously, why shouldn't a player speak to a friend in a mutual native language?

You've got to be totally paranoid to think foreigners only exist in order to cheat in games of 40K.

English is a foreign language to a lot of people. Everyone at tournaments should be made to speak Esperanto.

That's not the point.

The point is you are engaged in an activity with someone that you've chosen to partake in, and instead of playing and communicating with them in this hobby of yours, you're discluding them and having a conversation in another language with someone on another table.

I'd ask them to focus on the game, and in the language we both speak.

I agree there is a difference between a bit of chit-chat, and constant inattention to your own game because you are busy talking with your friend next door.

Where to draw the line, though? Should all off-table communication be banned during a tournament, in whatever language?

I was objecting to the argument that no-one should be allowed to speak in a language except English during a tournament. Also the ZOMG!1! Foreign == Cheat paranoia.

I'm with Kilkrazy on this one - as long as he's not totally ignoring his opponent to talk to the guy next to him, then it's fine. Your problem seems to be with the fact that he was speaking a foreign language - I would ask the OP what he would do if he was the only english-speaker in a room, and he happened to bump into another english-speaker? Would you just ignore him because it's 'rude' to speak to a fellow countryman in a language you have spoken all your lives?

A long time ago, whilst in the curryhouse with my then GF, a table of German businessmen were all talking in their own language and having quite a laugh. I didn't pay them much attention but on finishing our meal, my gf walked over to the table and said something to them, as she was fluent in the language. They all promptly shut up at that point.

It was only as we got home that she revealed they had been rating all the women in the restaurant, including her and been talking in a far less than polite way about them. She to her credit sat through all that and didn't rise to it, despite being fluent, as she knew my temper would have boiled up. She had told them, in German, that yes her breasts were nice and she was glad they had thought so, but that only I would be enjoying them, since I deserved a treat following my release from prison for murder...

Those chaps used the notion that no one would understand them to behave in a less than decent fashion.

If the two guys at this tourney were both talking in their native tongue to exchange greetings etc then fine and dandy, if they then continued a conversation across tables in a foreign language, whilst playing against English speaking opponents, then yes, that was fething rude.

So did ya Killy any of them?

G

Kilkrazy wrote:Where to draw the line, though? Should all off-table communication be banned during a tournament, in whatever language?

Not a bad idea, really. Would help keep players a little more focussed, which is good for speeding up the round...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:A long time ago, whilst in the curryhouse with my then GF, a table of German businessmen were all talking in their own language and having quite a laugh. I didn't pay them much attention but on finishing our meal, my gf walked over to the table and said something to them, as she was fluent in the language. They all promptly shut up at that point.

It was only as we got home that she revealed they had been rating all the women in the restaurant, including her and been talking in a far less than polite way about them. She to her credit sat through all that and didn't rise to it, despite being fluent, as she knew my temper would have boiled up. She had told them, in German, that yes her breasts were nice and she was glad they had thought so, but that only I would be enjoying them, since I deserved a treat following my release from prison for murder...

Those chaps used the notion that no one would understand them to behave in a less than decent fashion.

If the two guys at this tourney were both talking in their native tongue to exchange greetings etc then fine and dandy, if they then continued a conversation across tables in a foreign language, whilst playing against English speaking opponents, then yes, that was fething rude.

Every time I hear one of these stories, I always end up imagining the alternate ending:

The crowd of foreigners sits stunned while the annoyed bilingual American marches off after delivering the speech. Then, one of them turns to the other and says "What was she saying about a duck flying at midnight?!?"

I had originally thought of the analogy of only speaking English at a poker table too, but that's a case of people involved in the same game having the potential to collude to the detriment of others.

In a Warhammer tourney, I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. If it's obviously a matter of two people speaking their native language while each playing their own game, then no big deal. If they're obviously analyzing each others' play, pointing at each others' games and such, then I'd raise the issue.

There was a Korean restaraunt somewhere up in Scotland I believe that had been there years. Like all Asian food joints, it had loads of foreign writing on the sign at the top. One day, a passing Korean guy broke down laughing upon seeing the shop sign. When queried as to the joke, he explained that there was effectively a banner across the top of the shop insulting all Scotch people in several interesting and offensive ways.

Needless to say, this guy had to shut up shop and move pretty sharpish once word got around. Apparently he was very attached to his kneecaps.

Tru story dat.

@Ketara: You had me at "Korean restaurant somewhere up in Scotland".

I would agree that carrying on such a conversation is rude at the very least. I can't think of anyway it enhances the game itself and it's bad etiquette in conventional society under normal circumstances. Some people are bad sports--it has to be trained out of them.

Heh. In ireland there's the added fun if you speak irish that you know, everyone is supposed to be able to speak it (it being the official language and all) but no one actually can.
I wouldn't use it to have a chat though, even though a few of my club can speak irish (some of us better than others.)
At the same time, Albatross makes a great point about being in a room full of non-english speakers and meeting another english speaker. It depends on what it looked like they were doing. If it looked to me like they were commenting on the game, I'd ask them politely to refrain from doing so. I've done similar things in the past, if I get tired of being talked across. But we shouldn't get lazy or complacent about languages just because we're lucky enough to have most people know ours, either.
Certainly, if I was travelling to continental europe to play, I'd brush up on my french and (very poor) german at least.

Ahtman wrote:@Ketara: You had me at "Korean restaurant somewhere up in Scotland".

No joke, I read that line and instantly thought 'Sounds like a new Tarantino flick".

I think it's rude to not communicate with the person across the table from you. At least include them into the conversation if you can't break away from your buddies hip for the round...

AgeOfEgos wrote:I think it's rude to not communicate with the person across the table from you. At least include them into the conversation if you can't break away from your buddies hip for the round...

That's the real issue here, for me.

Whatever language you're speaking, carrying on a conversation with someone not involved in the game and excluding the person you're actually playing against is rude. Have the courtesy to focus on the game.

Why should you have a right to hear the discussions between the allied players on the opposing team?

If they're not cheating - and answer any questions in English - then get over it.

Forcing people to speak in a second or third language puts them at a major disadvantage.

If I went to play a game in France, I could speak to organisers and opponents to ask what's going on, exchange pleasantries and buy a few drinks - but I'd be completely unable to tell my team-mate that I think he should tank-shock the less obvious target for the psychological aspect.

So I'd do it in my mother tongue, then if they asked me what I'd said, I'd explain, simply, "discussion de la tactique, mon ami".

But he wasn’t talking about a team game, he was talking about friends playing separate individual games. I don’t know if the same custom holds where you are, but most places I’ve wargamed in the world, it’s considered cheating or at least very poor form for any third person to give tactical suggestions or reminders to one of the players in a competitive two-person game.

In a team game (like two men a side), sure, it'd be perfectly appropriate.