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Broadside Bash Game # 3

So I end up finding my table assignment and meet my opponent. He was an Ork player with mostly a horde list with some vehicles thrown in. I thought it would make for a really good/fun game. So we dice off, and I win the dice roll to go first and start to deploy.

Then a judge comes over and tells us that the game next to us has a pair of people who have already played each other (remember that the first 3 pairings were based on comp, so they should have seen this days before) and we had to switch partners We had to roll off to see who moves, and who stays and I lost the roll and had to pack up.

My opponent Mario showed up about 25 minutes late and we began. I would also like to say that I have been going to these tournaments for many years and that Mario and I have tangled before and have had troubles in the past. For example, after 5th edition came out he ended up playing the Catachan codex that you could download from the GW website. My argument was that 5th edition made all of the fringe lists obsolete (and not allowed at any GW event) because they were not updated with a FAQ to make them 5th edition compatible. I was overruled though, and had to play against it.

So I was dreading my game.

M list again:

HQ
Avatar
Eldrad

Elite
6 Harliquins w/2 Fusion Pistols, 6 kisses
Shadowseer W/Kiss
Troupe Leader w/Power Weapon

Troops
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance

3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor

Fast Attack
7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdraw

7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdraw

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers

3 War Walkers w/Scatter Lasers



Mario’s List of Catachan Imperial Guard:

HQ

Senior Officer w/Refractor Field, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol
Company Command Squad: Officer of the Fleet, Missile Launcher, Company Standard, Vox Caster
Chimera w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting

Senior Officer w/Refractor Field, Plasma Pistol, Vox Caster
Company Command Squad: Senior Officer, Officer of the Fleet, Missile Launcher
Chimera w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting


Elite
Sly Marbo

Troops
10 Veterans w/3 Meltaguns, Demo Charge, Vox Caster
Gunnery Sgt. Harker
Chimera w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting

9 Veterans w/3 Meltaguns, Demo Charge, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

Infantry Platoon:
4 Platoon Command Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer, Heavy Flamer
1 Junior Officer

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

Fast Attack
Hellhound w/Multimelta, Camo Netting

9 Roughriders
1 Roughrider Sgt.

Sentinel w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting
Sentinel w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting

Looking at his army is very short range, and without anything that can really hurt me. So the questions I had were, can I reach him, and can I kill enough in time?


Mission: Provide No Cover
Scenario: Victory Points on destroyed units only
Massacre=1200 Victory Points more than your opponents
Major Victory=700 Victory Points
Minor Victory= 200 Victory Points

Special Rules: Deep Strike, Reserves, Infiltrate, Scout, Outflank, Random Game Length


Deployment: Table Quarters

He wins the dice roll to go first (and this was after I won it on the other table!)

Setup


He starts with everything on the board except his roughriders, and Harker and his boys and their chimera. He packs himself as tight as he could into the table corner, and that means that I have to go over there and dig him out. He parks his sentinels in front of those bushy chimeras to help out with cover saves from his camo netting.

I set up ready to march forward.


I steal the initiative...hah!


Turn #1

Top of Eldar turn #1

I move out! Forward I go, and he makes a lot of saves from his camo netting, but I knock the flamer off of his Hellhound.



Bottom of Imperial Guard turn #1

He does not have much shooting, but he tries to hit me with 2 ordinance barrages from his Officers of the Fleet which was surprising and unpleasant, but they scatter.



Turn #2

Top of Eldar turn #2

Move forward. I kill a sentinel!!! Also my Warp Spyders and the Jetbikes kill a squad behind the rocks to the right.




Bottom of Imperial Guard turn #2

My Warp Spyders get a little to close and eat a lot of plasma and other goodies. Sly Marbo jumps out at my War Walkers that were hosing him, and he tosses his demo charge and misses by a lot. Harker also come on to the left, and camps behind a rock spire and starts to gun down guardians. Funny thing happens now… I ask him if all of his reserves are on the board and he says yes.



Turn #3

Top of Eldar turn #3
I keep the pressure on and keep moving forward. Those Chimeras are hard to kill, so I kill the sentinels in front of them, but do not get to remove one so it is still cover. I do manage to kill the hellhound on the left. The war walkers kill Marbo without a problem, but he does waste a turn of their shooting.



Bottom of Imperial Guard turn #3
His roughriders come on…this is going to hurt!


He goes after the jetbikes and Warp Spyders and does some damage.


Turn #4

Top of Eldar turn #4

I crush the roughriders. Although I can’t kill the chimeras I am keeping them stunned.



Bottom of Imperial Guard turn #4

They shoot what they can, and try to kill the Avatar but better men than them have tried, and they do not cause much damage. You can also finally see Harkers chimera to the right, and the guardian squad he has been working on the lower left.



Turn #5

Top of Eldar turn #5

I finally reach him and start to kill all that is before me. The harlequins take out a chimera with their fusion pistols and then assault the command squad inside. A brightlance kills the other chimera. My warlock fries a squad with destructor, the avatar goes crazy and kills a squad. I am starting to make real progress here!



Bottom of Imperial Guard turn #5

He moves Harker forward and kills a squad of guardians.


End of the game.

We did not get to finish because of our late start and when we totaled up the points I had killed about 850 victory points worth of stuff, and he had killed 400 victory points worth of stuff giving me a minor win. It sure seemed like I killed a lot more than 850 points worth of stuff, but it is hard to tell with IG because I do not know if you need to kill the whole troop selection etc to get the VPs out of it. Take a look at the last picture that is 1000 points worth of Imperial Guard (I am giving him 200 points for Harker)

It was a tough matchup for me because it is hard as heck for me to kill all of those guard in a timely manner, and he did about the best job he could do for the match up was just to turtle up in a corner, and try to deny my victory points.

Even though he was late, our game went pretty well, and I gave him high marks for theme and sports (I should have marked him down a lot more for being late, but I didn’t. In most check-box sports scoring there is a box for being late to the game).

At the end of the game he did ask me what my theme was. My theme was to build a competitive army without using a seer council or a grav tank…does that count as a theme? I did take Eldrad and he said that he needs to be in an Ulthwe army. So I guess I need to paint my army black to get a better comp score.

I did give him the best theme vote at the end of the tournament.

There is no way that those models amount to 1000+ points of IG.

AFAIK VPs are calculated like KPs, right? So you win VPs for each unit that you kill, you do NOT need to kill the entire platoon to get the VPs, you get VPs for each individual unit in the platoon.

Unless there where some mission rules involved that I'm missing, if that is the case then ignore me...

That can't be 1k in IG. Also I hope that those weren't Fleet officers but that they were marked as Master of Ordanance. I'm pretty sure just in the sentinels, chimera's, hellhound and rough riders are almost at the point level he claims you got.

Ya unless a lot of those infantry models are single models left over from units... its hard to believe its 1000 points..

Seems to me like a pretty great game against that particular opponent...

It could be 1000 points if you ended up smashing the transports and not the squads attached if they were requiring both to be destroyed for VP's.

lords2001 wrote:It could be 1000 points if you ended up smashing the transports and not the squads attached if they were requiring both to be destroyed for VP's.

Vehicles count as individual units, and even if they didn't that would give him the points of one chimera.

I guess I will have to go over the numbers. I think I threw out the sheet with the numbers, so I have to recreate it.


Dead:

HQ

Senior Officer w/Refractor Field, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol
Company Comand Squad: Officer of the Fleet, Missile Launcher, Company Standard, Vox Caster
Chimera w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting


Elite
Sly Marbo

Troops
9 Veterans w/3 Meltaguns, Demo Charge, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol

9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol


Infantry Platoon:
9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant

Fast Attack
Hellhound w/Multimelta, Camo Netting

9 Roughriders
1 Roughrider Sgt.

Sentinel w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting
Sentinel w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting



From what I see he has alive:

HQ

(Located to the upper right of the harlequins)
Senior Officer w/Refractor Field, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol
Company Comand Squad: Officer of the Fleet, Missile Launcher, Company Standard, Vox Caster
140 Points

Troops
(Driving around off camera)
10 Veterans w/3 Meltaguns, Demo Charge, Vox Caster
Gunnery Sgt. Harker
Chimera w/Heavy Flamer, Camo Netting
265 Points

(Standing to the upper left of the Avatar)
9 Veterans w/3 Plasmaguns, Vox Caster
Sergeant w/Plasma Pistol
115 Points

Infantry Platoon:
(In the crater to the upper left of the Avatar)
4 Platoon Command Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer, Heavy Flamer
1 Junior Officer
60 Points

(To the left of the Avatar)
9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant
60 Points

(To the left of Skull Mountain)
9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant
60 Points

(To the far upper right of the Harlequins)
9 Infantry Squad w/Vox Caster, Flamer
1 Sergeant
60 Points

So with what he seems like he has on the table, I have it coming in at 760 points being still alive. So I ended up killing about 1240 points – the 450 points that he killed give me 790 VPs

So it looks like I had a major victory (+700 VPs)

That would have given me 3 extra points in Generalship giving me the 4th highest and tying me with the tournament winner.

Ouch.

Least you still won.

Im certainly going to let the mech council take a break and try out footsloggers here soon.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Im certainly going to let the mech council take a break and try out footsloggers here soon.

Lies.

Very good Bat Rep as always.

Gotta double check on those kinds of games. People just don't add up the points right since it has no effect on them in those kinds of games.

Gornall wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Im certainly going to let the mech council take a break and try out footsloggers here soon.

Lies.

Very good Bat Rep as always.

Ill give your butt a rest, its probably sore by now.

Ouch... I missed the part where you would have been tied for overall. Sheesh.

He wouldn't have been tied for overall. He'd have tied the guy who won overall in Battle Points. It wouldn't have made much of a difference in the standings. He might have moved into the top 20 (he got pretty hammered on his soft scores)

Ah... read that wrong.

He got hammered in soft scores....why? Eldrad in a non-Ulthwe army? (notice the codex specifically says there's "students of Eldrad" all over the eldar race, so basically saying any army can use "Eldrad" or "Meldrad" or "BobbyJoeJimdrad") For using Eldravatar?

interesting battle... that Ig list was pretty... ick

Hammered on soft scores? Really? Must be because foot eldar are the cheese!

Soft scores are more than comp. He might have had a painting style that the judge hated, might have been tanked by his foe's in sportsmanship (he said he played slow), might even have just not gotten as many favored army votes as the top list.

None of that seems likely to me, but it's mean to presume that the TO's are compslapping foot Eldar if there isn't a breakdown available.

Well that's what I mean. Did the judges compslap him? If so why? It's not that nasty of a list.

Did his opponents slap him? It's not a cheesy list by any means. It has different elements that work together well - which is exactly what Eldar are supposed to do.

Around here, we would call that list "crappy", because there's not enough spam. Everything around here seems to be 6 cookiecutter troops choices and as many of X as you can take, cuz if you only take one the enemy's going to blow it up or kill it and now you're hosed. I can see why it works though. It depends on a bit of luck from the brightlances, but if it works it works!

40kenthusiast wrote:Soft scores are more than comp. He might have had a painting style that the judge hated, might have been tanked by his foe's in sportsmanship (he said he played slow), might even have just not gotten as many favored army votes as the top list.

None of that seems likely to me, but it's mean to presume that the TO's are compslapping foot Eldar if there isn't a breakdown available.

For the record, I said that my army takes a while to play, not that I play slow. I am trying to go as fast as I can because it is in my best interest to get in as many turns as possible.

For your beginning match-ups the judges scored our comp. The two judges scored comp from 1-6 with 1 being cheesy and 6 being fluffy my army came in at a 5 and a 6 which means that they thought my army was very tame.

But then when you look at the player judged comp I scored the 42nd lowest out of 47 players. Again, it might have something to do with Eldrad/Avatar, the fact that my army had 60 strength 6 shots, or the fact that I did not go into the background/theme of my army. I would like to point out that the other foot elder army was not has hard as mine, scored 34th lowest comp out of 47.

As far as sportsmanship goes, I think it goes hand-in-hand with comp score and there is some bleed over, and I scored 40th out of 47.

My painting was 26 out of 47, and I am comfortable with that.

To sum it up, the judges (like everyone else) thinks that my army is not very powerful when you look at it on the sheet of paper, but my opponents that played against it had a different opinion.

So basically they figured it was some relic of ye olden days army and then unleashed the butthurt when you smashed them?

I really hated their paint judging. You managed to get 6 more points than me in painting with some unpainted mini's in your army and no conversions.

As for your sports and comp I blame the judges again. If they had paired you up so that you didn't just punch people in the mouth day one then you would have had better sports and comp. Soft scores kill kittens!

I guess you should write up your fluff that your Avatar is actually powered by an internal furnace burning kittens. That will get the idea that your list is mean :-p

Blackmoor, your a nice guy, but a fool for giving him high sports, and since he's playing a list that obviously wasn't specifically allowed... wow, and showed up late... double wow.

I also think you scored over 1000 victory points from what I saw.

Typical "horde" guard player tactic... show up late, delay the game... and run a horde of models so they can slow play you. Congrats on the win, the TO should have awarded you a bonus for playing the guy. Its wins like these that are especially memorable. So good job and all that.

Sazzlefrats wrote:
Typical "horde" guard player tactic... show up late, delay the game... and run a horde of models so they can slow play you. Congrats on the win, the TO should have awarded you a bonus for playing the guy. Its wins like these that are especially memorable. So good job and all that.

Not trying to defend the IG player but I think some of what you said is out of line. It looks like the IG player didn't slow the game down at all, he hardly moved, and in fact made it so the majority of his troops couldn't shoot for most of the game. It sucks that he was late but the IG guy made it pretty easy for you to claim a win over him so I guess it evens out.

The guard players list could have been more effective if he was aggressive, he had enough units to do some damage, especially if he tried to be more aggressive. I just don't get the I'll sit back like a coward tactic and make a piss poor attempt to deny KP's.....
why even play the game. . . He had enough flamers/heavy flamers to do some real frying if he ever moved his troops.

Just curious, what did he fire his long ranged weaponry at? I would hope not the Avatar.

Thimn wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:
Typical "horde" guard player tactic... show up late, delay the game... and run a horde of models so they can slow play you. Congrats on the win, the TO should have awarded you a bonus for playing the guy. Its wins like these that are especially memorable. So good job and all that.

Not trying to defend the IG player but I think some of what you said is out of line. It looks like the IG player didn't slow the game down at all, he hardly moved, and in fact made it so the majority of his troops couldn't shoot for most of the game. It sucks that he was late but the IG guy made it pretty easy for you to claim a win over him so I guess it evens out.

1. showed up late
2. used an obscure list, that wouldn't normally be legal
3. cheated on victory points

All are dings on sportsmanship, plus if you've had issues with the same guy before... you just don't reward the guy for doing the same thing over and over. Based on how he played (turtle), each of the three issues brought up, especially the VP thing, I'd have given this guy a 4 out of 10.

Online.. yes, I tend to be harsher than I am in real life. But I do have gripes with those IG players who for any reason slow the game down, such as arriving late, or otherwise cause the game to end with time being called rather than a natural conclusion. (This very thing happend to me at hard boyz, the guy delayed the game by 51minutes, turtled up, and had I not finally gotten the TO to stick around, he would have continued to slow play me, I'm not even talking about his blatant cheating, fast dice rolls or questionable movement; there was lots of that as well. but no... we also ran out of time... and it probably cost me the difference between 2nd place and taking 3rd). IG are one of the few armies who generally significantly benefit from low numbers of turns being played.

Hope to see you at Kublacon Blackmoor, I still have to get back at you beating me so badly in LA.

I like this sort of army. I really do. Flexible, able to hammer elite units into the dust.

The only issues that I can see? There are two armies you won't have much luck with - Black Templars with blessed hulls, and Monolith heavy necrons who keep the warriors hidden and let the liths/scarabs/destroyers do the heavy lifting - what would be your plan for these armies?

Sazzlefrats wrote:2. used an obscure list, that wouldn't normally be legal

I don't think he was using Catachans in this tournament; it's just part of the prior history with this particular player.

lords2001 wrote:I like this sort of army. I really do. Flexible, able to hammer elite units into the dust.

The only issues that I can see? There are two armies you won't have much luck with - Black Templars with blessed hulls, and Monolith heavy necrons who keep the warriors hidden and let the liths/scarabs/destroyers do the heavy lifting - what would be your plan for these armies?

Vs Templars, kill everything but whats in the land raiders then kill what comes out after, oh yeah and then kill the land raiders with the wraith lords, every big tuna can they bring is 250 pt's less of everything else making all the st6 shooting even more concentrated.

Vs necrons, tougher match, if the destroyers crippled his war walkers (which should be the 1st priority then it would be a tough match. He would need to run up to the pizza huts with the wraith lords... knock knock then mop up the rest. Again... every lith he brings is 250 less of other units, I personally love it when people bring such large expensive models, they are point sinks. I see where your coming from though 3 liths just sitting their shooting particle whips would be pretty nasty against so many targets, I'm sure he would spread out though like any smart player would making the large blasts hit 3 models. If he ran the wraith lords two turns he should get 2 of them by turn 3. Terrain would have a larger than normal impact on such a match up.

It isn't so much the armies as the guys using them, the space wolf guy had some good tactics, this Imperial guard guy would have lost with any army he just sucked at playing. People got to remember that, yeah some lists look great on paper but if the generals sucks thats at least 50% of an armies effectiveness if not more down the drain.