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Made in us
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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

This weekend they had the 40k Throne of Skulls GT finals.

For those of you that don’t know, UK GW's GT is 6 games at 1500 points, and you play in 3 “heats” in the fall to qualify for the finals that was held last weekend. There is no comp, no sports and no painting scores so it is battle points with victory points as the tie-breaker.

The results for the top 10 are:
1:Chaos: 2 lash 6 oblit raider army.
2: Chaos: 2 lash 9 oblit army.
3: Space wolves, With 3 rune priests, 2 Squads of long fangs, 4 units of tooled up grey hunters.
4: Space Marines
5: Necrons: Lord on destroyer, 6 wraiths, monolith, 5 destroyers, 7 immortals, some warriors.
6: Chaos: Khorne daemon prince, 2 raiders, 2 rhinos, 3 units of zerkers + Khorne terminators
7: Chaos Daemons: Fate Crusher
8: Orks
9: Orks
10: Eldar

They had a lot better spread of armies that they have had in the past, Lash Chaos is still a very good combo no matter how people say that Mech stop it (the oblits and just blast you out of your tanks).

The tyranid codex is still new, and there were only 2 tyranid players there that finished in the middle of the pack.

There were 2 surprises though. The first is that there was no IG in the top 10. Maybe it is not as good at 1500 points. The other surprise was that there was a necron player in the top 10, which goes to show you that every codex has a list that can win if you are good enough player.



Note:
Taken from this article:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69412
Thanks to Tange for the results.


 
   
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Blackmoor wrote:
5: Necrons: Lord on destroyer, 6 wraiths, monolith, 5 destroyers, 7 immortals, some warriors.


Really? You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves.


Blackmoor wrote:
There were 2 surprises though. The first is that there was no IG in the top 10. Maybe it is not as good at 1500 points.


I've played it at 1500 points. Its really really stupid (as in good) if built correctly.

Maybe the Europeans aren't as good as us.
(yay broad all encompassing statements. )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/15 16:51:56


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Las Vegas, NV

Wow.

Dual lash chaos gets first and second? People still win with that build? That is interesting.

And Crons! Double wow! That is a curious build, I wonder how he played it? That guy must be one hell of a player to pull that off.

Hmm, that is a very interesting result. Do you have any more specific informaiton, Blackmoor?

   
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Timmah wrote:
Maybe the Europeans aren't as good as us.
(yay broad all encompassing statements. )


Well, we'll finally gonna find out this summer at the ETC.

I'm honestly curious to see how the US top players compare to the top Europeans (i.e. not the English ).
and this year the Australians come as well...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/16 18:57:38


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Blackmoor wrote:

There were 2 surprises though. The first is that there was no IG in the top 10. Maybe it is not as good at 1500 points. The other surprise was that there was a necron player in the top 10, which goes to show you that every codex has a list that can win if you are good enough player.



Note:
Taken from this article:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69412
Thanks to Tange for the results.


U Hit it on the head could it be that IG the mech Messiah is not God when to force to play at the point level nature intended? Another point about the Lash, I bet the winners have been playing that list for years and know what they are doing. It would interesting to know how they played on their way to victory.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/16 20:08:45


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tastytaste wrote:
Blackmoor wrote:

There were 2 surprises though. The first is that there was no IG in the top 10. Maybe it is not as good at 1500 points. The other surprise was that there was a necron player in the top 10, which goes to show you that every codex has a list that can win if you are good enough player.



Note:
Taken from this article:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=69412
Thanks to Tange for the results.


U Hit it on the head could it be that IG the mech Messiah is not God when to force to play at the point level nature intended? Another point about the Lash, I bet the winners have been playing that list for years and know what they are doing. It would interesting to know how they played on their way to victory.


Seriously, mech IG is ridiculous at 1500. There are very few armies that can even hope to contend with it at that points level. At 1850 and 2k it gets better and is much more balanced.

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Sounds like a point worth expanding on in an Army Lists or Tactics post!

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Mannahnin wrote:Sounds like a point worth expanding on in an Army Lists or Tactics post!


I agree taking it to theory hammer is a much better idea hehe.

Seriously, though I have yet to find a 1500 IG that has truly scared me because they mostly end up looking like glass cannons. All we can base our perspective is on what we have faced and the results from tournaments and no IG list or player has proven their mettle thus far to win a major event.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/16 20:46:10


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Well in fairness there haven't been any US 1500 pt tournaments. Its just that PBS get more and more imba as points drop.

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Down under

My assault space wolves with scout units seems to ream 1500 IG unless he forgoes the turn of shooting to move things forwards far enough to avoid the scouts.

So yes, I'd be interested in seeing a tactica post regarding "ridiculous" 1500 IG builds.

OT does anyone know (couldn't troll through all that forum to see as it was taking 10 minutes to load pages) what build the marines were in 4th?

 
   
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Edmonton, AB

The entire top 10 was not mech, so yeah, lash can and will win.

Maybe the Eldar were, but the rest certainly were not.

Here's some food for thought to those thinking IG are bad at 1500:

What out there can compete with 6 Hydras (only 450 points) backed up with a few Devil Dogs (240 points) and all the rest being chimera riding platoons?

How about three platoons all with Lascannons (10+ chimeras total)?

You can go the route of suicide Melta Command Squads in Vendettas with chimeras and tanks backing it up.

No other codex right now can has close to the number of cheap 'take all comers' options IG have right now. It was a really great codex, there are so many cheap flexible options out there. Just saturate the battlefield in chimeras and there is nothing lash can do about it.

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Blackmoor wrote:This weekend they had the 40k Throne of Skulls GT finals.

1: Chaos: 2 lash 6 oblit raider army.
2: Chaos: 2 lash 9 oblit army.
3: Space wolves, With 3 rune priests, 2 Squads of long fangs, 4 units of tooled up grey hunters.
4: Space Marines
5: Necrons: Lord on destroyer, 6 wraiths, monolith, 5 destroyers, 7 immortals, some warriors.
6: Chaos: Khorne daemon prince, 2 raiders, 2 rhinos, 3 units of zerkers + Khorne terminators

They had a lot better spread of armies that they have had in the past,

I dunno: Top 6 being all MEQs, and 3 of 6 being CSM isn't such a good spread IMO.

   
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I have been told IG is fierce at 1500 points and I believe it. Everything in the IG codex is cheap for what you get.

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Edmonton, AB

Calling them fierce has me imagining men dressed in zebra print with bright pink boas... holding lasguns of course.

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tastytaste wrote: I bet the winners have been playing that list for years and know what they are doing.


Very good point.

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I can't believe they only play 1500 points....And that GW supports that. More points = more sales...

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Yorkshire, UK

Hmmm, some interesting points here, but as the first UK poster to have a say, what's with the 'maybe they're not as good as us' comments?

1500 is a very different game (and metagame). Many builds struggle to fit in everything they want at that level - bump it to 1850 or more and you can usually add in the last couple of units to round out your strategy.

What this means is that top level competition at 1500pts forces you to think slightly differently (not better or worse, just different) about your army selection than top level competition at 1850 or more - hence why you'll see different builds at the top of the pile.

Also, as has been said, the guys who won with dual lash will have been playing that build since the CSM dex came out. Experience counts for a lot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/17 07:44:47


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Why do all the yanks who only play comp tournaments feel confident that they have a true grasp of competitive builds in non-comp tournaments?

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olympia wrote:Why do all the yanks who only play comp tournaments feel confident that they have a true grasp of competitive builds in non-comp tournaments?


Uh, there's plenty of non-comp events that we play. Heck, I won't even go to a comped event.



1500 points seems very rock-paper-scissors - ish. Its more about whether you brought the correct stuff to deal with your opponents army or not.

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far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

Timmah wrote:
olympia wrote:Why do all the yanks who only play comp tournaments feel confident that they have a true grasp of competitive builds in non-comp tournaments?


Uh, there's plenty of non-comp events that we play. Heck, I won't even go to a comped event.



1500 points seems very rock-paper-scissors - ish. Its more about whether you brought the correct stuff to deal with your opponents army or not.


There are, no doubt, plenty of RTT that are free of comp. It's a pity that none of the GT/Vegas qualifiers are that way.

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Yea, it is very sad.

I honestly don't understand comp. I would much rather play noncomped 1500 tournaments than 1850-2k comped ones. (ofc non comped 1850-2k would be the best)


Really though Olympia, if we didn't have comp/sportsmanship scores in all of our events, then they would just attract a bunch of jerks who think they can use whatever unit they want out of their army book. I mean look at the European tournament circuit. No one even plays in it anymore because its just all jerks. oh wait...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/17 14:35:35


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Canterbury

Actually I think the overall winner was using Imperial Marines, but he was listed as chaos in error/originally.

39th for me, 3 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw. All cool enough games, very fun weekend allround. I never seen so many Valkyries/Vendettas and Eldar tanks.

I played 3 mech eldar, 2 guard and 1 chaos marine armies.

I've got some snaps of some of the armies on here ..errr... site might be construed as slightly NWS/language warning.

Biggest surprise of the weekend : only Two Tyranid armies in the final out of 115 players. I believe only 4 or 5 Tyranid armies even qualified ( note you are free to take wahtever army you wish to the final, you don't have to stick to the same on or build). Speaking to a few TYranid players there's a feeling the book just doesn't quite work at 1500 points.

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Timmah wrote:Yea, it is very sad.

I honestly don't understand comp. I would much rather play noncomped 1500 tournaments than 1850-2k comped ones. (ofc non comped 1850-2k would be the best)


Really though Olympia, if we didn't have comp/sportsmanship scores in all of our events, then they would just attract a bunch of jerks who think they can use whatever unit they want out of their army book. I mean look at the European tournament circuit. No one even plays in it anymore because its just all jerks. oh wait...


Yeah and without comp no one would bring Necrons! (oops they took 5th place).

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

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olympia wrote:
Timmah wrote:Yea, it is very sad.

I honestly don't understand comp. I would much rather play noncomped 1500 tournaments than 1850-2k comped ones. (ofc non comped 1850-2k would be the best)


Really though Olympia, if we didn't have comp/sportsmanship scores in all of our events, then they would just attract a bunch of jerks who think they can use whatever unit they want out of their army book. I mean look at the European tournament circuit. No one even plays in it anymore because its just all jerks. oh wait...


Yeah and without comp no one would bring Necrons! (oops they took 5th place).


Haha truf. Take that all you US TO's who think events need comp.

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Reds8n, what were the missions?

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

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Hey, the UK has lots of both kinds of events.

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More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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Canterbury

olympia wrote:

Reds8n, what were the missions?


1. Spearhead, Seize Ground.
2. Pitched Battle, Annilation.
3. Dawn of War, Capture & Control.
4. Dawn of War, Seize Ground.
5. Spearhead, Capture & Control.
6. Pitched Battle, Annilation.

You always play each deployment and each mission twice, the order varies but, thus far, the last battle is ALWAYS PB/Annih.

You also have to tot up VPs as well and these are used as a kind of tiebreaker or goal difference as with30/10/1/0 (win/draw/loss/quit or forfeit) you get a lot of score the same of course. The guy who took first plave won 6 out of 6.

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We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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No soft scores, standard missions = NO DRAMA. Take note tournament organizers.

PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.

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I must confess there's a general sense of amused bewilderment with regards to some of the overly complicated missions that seem to be the norm over the pond from UK (European ?) players generally in my experience.

All your models are required to be painted and based, and with each and every result sheet you hand in there is the option to tick a box that says "awkward opponent". I believe you have to get 2 of these before the refs will take some form of sanction against you. But I'm unaware of any such violations taking place in the last few years. During the games the refs can issue red or yellow cards, like in football, but again these are quite rare.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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olympia wrote:No soft scores, standard missions = NO DRAMA. Take note tournament organizers.



Olympia, you're my new best friend. :p

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