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 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

I beat a Knight army recently w warriors and 2 Monoliths basically. It was my first stab at fighting them. I won 17-0. I played cat and mouse and really didnt engage or offer up any important targets and had him come at me. Then i popped behind and kinda forced him to choose. Once his troops choices were dead it was just about hiding and gank8ng objectives late game.

Most will bring ig derachments so if you can just kill those, you can outnumber on objectives pretty easily. I only ever killed his valliant and his troops. It was enough. So basically i acknowledged his armed supremacy and tried to outlast him.

 dracpanzer wrote:
How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.

It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.

As for knights, it's surprising how easy it is to fight them with some other factions. Death hex, S9 ranged weapons, worthless chaff to screen them, and a big mobile S10 melee beatstick if it broke through (it didn't, not even close). Doesn't help sisters but may curb the knights in tournaments if people start showing up with hard counters.

 Jancoran wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

I beat a Knight army recently w warriors and 2 Monoliths basically. It was my first stab at fighting them. I won 17-0. I played cat and mouse and really didnt engage or offer up any important targets and had him come at me. Then i popped behind and kinda forced him to choose. Once his troops choices were dead it was just about hiding and gank8ng objectives late game.

Most will bring ig derachments so if you can just kill those, you can outnumber on objectives pretty easily. I only ever killed his valliant and his troops. It was enough. So basically i acknowledged his armed supremacy and tried to outlast him.

Um? Them be necrons not see sisters!

I can beat them with other armies..... the question was with sob lol

A.T. wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.

It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.

I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.

 dracpanzer wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.

It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.

I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.

I'm putting my money on May or June. They'll either finish off the fiscal year with a big boom, or kickstart the next year with one. If they release the beta rules in CA like they mentioned, then the codex would be mostly finished. I would think the renders would be the time consuming part. Pressing start on the CNC for the molds and injections would the quick part.

 deviantduck wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.

It was at warhammer fest in May, though that was just a promotional character like Veridyan to be released before the real models.
Rumours were Q3-Q4 for the sisters with some temporary rules in this years chapter approved.

I get that, you would expect that with the supposed increased level of involvement the lack of any progress since the render would point to Q4 being a best case scenario. I wouldn't be surprised if it spills over in to 2020 at the earliest.

I'm putting my money on May or June. They'll either finish off the fiscal year with a big boom, or kickstart the next year with one. If they release the beta rules in CA like they mentioned, then the codex would be mostly finished. I would think the renders would be the time consuming part. Pressing start on the CNC for the molds and injections would the quick part.

My bet is on Kick start the fiscal year, b.c we will have a new SM codex for the end (Im betting we get a SM codex in the next 9 months).

I'm hoping for no earlier then June, or July. GW said that they're going to release the beta in December, so I want them to have enough time to collect data and make changes for the actual Codex before publication.

Yes, I do know their reputation, but I'm being optimistic.

How necessary is St. Celestine? I'd say she's practically mandatory for a mono-Sororitas list, but I'm just curious.

She is pretty mandatory. Unfortunately with the new ITC missions she bleeds victory points, so she's at a weird state right now of being necessary, but also being a huge impedence to actually winning tournament missions.
Thus is the state of Sisters, at least until Chapter Approved comes out.

If you are taking any sob she is mandatory

She doesn't bleed as many points as she used to in ITC mission due to the update but yeah she is pretty mandatory.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
She is pretty mandatory. Unfortunately with the new ITC missions she bleeds victory points, so she's at a weird state right now of being necessary, but also being a huge impedence to actually winning tournament missions.
Thus is the state of Sisters, at least until Chapter Approved comes out.

Everyone keeps saying that. Let's go over it. She only gives up:
*Headhunter: 1pt for each enemy Character that is destroyed.
1 if killed twice.
*Kingslayer: Choose an enemy model that is a Character.
4 if 8 wounds removed, 5 if she's your warlord and killed a second time.
*Marked for Death: Choose 4 of your opponent’s units with a Power Level of 7+. Earn 1 pt for each of these units destroyed.
1 if chosen and killed twice.
*Big Game Hunter: 1 point for every enemy model with the Monster or Vehicle keyword and 7+ wounds destroyed.
0
*Titan Slayers: For every 8 wounds lost by enemy units with the Titanic keyword in total throughout the course of the game, earn 1 point.
0
The Reaper: For every 20 enemy models destroyed, earn 1 point.
1 if she is in the pile of 20 modes and killed twice.
Recon: Have a unit at least partially in each table quarter at the end of your player turn. A unit may only count as being in one table quarter at a time for the purposes of this rule. 1pt per turn.
0
Behind Enemy Lines: If at least one of your units is wholly in the enemy Deployment Zone at the start of your turn, earn 1 Point. A unit is wholly in if every model in the unit is at least partially in the enemy Deployment Zone.
0
The Butcher’s Bill: Destroy 2+ enemy units during a player turn to earn 1 Point.
1 If killed twice.
Ground Control: Earn 1 point for each objective held at the end of the last Battle Round played.
0
Old School: Earn 1 point for the following:
● First Strike: An enemy unit is destroyed in the first Battle Round.
1 If killed twice first round.
● Slay the Warlord: The enemy Warlord is destroyed at game’s end.
1 if killed twice.
● Linebreaker: Have one of your models within your opponent’s deployment zone at the end of the game.
0
● Last Strike: An enemy unit is destroyed in the last Battle Round played.
1 if killed twice last round.

So at most she can give up 7 on her own if she's the warlord. Kingslayer + Old School + (Headhunter/First Strike/Last Strike/Butcher's Bill/Marked for Death/Reaper)

The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.

I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.

The twin Gemini are characters also, people say that killing one of her BFFs thus scores a point for Headhunter (and makes that ridiculously easy to complete)

It's a bit silly.

GW say that the Geminae do not count as unnamed characters so they cannot take the relic sword. It's to balance the unit and not make it even more powerful than it already is, otherwise they'd have to increase the cost to balance around it.

ITC say that the Geminae count as characters so they give up a point for head hunter every time one of them dies. it's to make her less attractive to imperial soup lists, unfortunately it means that it's a nerf to one of the only two good things in our index.

Although with the itc ruling, if a geminae is killed and head hunter is scored, surely that must mean that it's a viable trigger for the martyrdom stratagem?

Where is that ruling published? I've had people mention it before, but no one seems to have a written copy of it.
Plus, as of last week, secondaries don't stack anymore.
*Secondaries marked with an asterisk may not earn more than one point for destroying any one unit. If such a unit would award points for multiple secondaries, you must decide which it scores at the time it is destroyed. For example, if you chose Marked for Death and Big Game Hunter, and Marked an enemy Rhino, you must decide which Secondary Mission you earn a single point for when you destroy it.

So you can't use HH and KS for Celestine. I forgot that bit in my earlier post.

I can't see where it's written down but I believe the argument is that:
The Geminae are on Celestine's dataslate, which has the <Character> keyword, there for the Geminae models gain the <Character> key word. If one is killed then it counts as a model with the <Character> keyword having died.

Headhunter is worded as "*Headhunter: 1pt for each enemy <Character> that is destroyed. " Not score 1 point for each unit with the <Character> keyword that was destroyed.

ITC also said this:

How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?

Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.

It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
How necessary is St. Celestine? I'd say she's practically mandatory for a mono-Sororitas list, but I'm just curious.

Very, considering without her you are limited to just the Canoness, three times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.

I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.

Go double battalion, she fits just fine without all the extra req's.

Rynner wrote:
ITC also said this:

How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?

Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.

It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.

Where did you see this?

 deviantduck wrote:

Rynner wrote:
ITC also said this:

How does Celestine interact with the Kingslayer secondary?

Treat Celestine and her Geminae Superia as a single model for the purpose of this mission. Wounds dealt to any of the models in the unit count towards Kingslayer, but destroying Celestine or the Geminae Superia do not count towards any other non-stacking secondaries.

It makes her less of a liability than before which is nice.

Where did you see this?

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/08/16/itc-updated-missions-questions-answered/

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
How necessary is St. Celestine? I'd say she's practically mandatory for a mono-Sororitas list, but I'm just curious.

Very, considering without her you are limited to just the Canoness, three times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The reason I ask is I've developed a Mechanized Brigade where everything except the Seraphim and Retributors fit into transport vehicles (3 Repressors and 3 Immolators) at 2k. But to do this, I had to drop Celestine's 200 points.

I like the brigade and I like mechanized sisters, but I don't like losing Celestine.

Go double battalion, she fits just fine without all the extra req's.

My struggle with double BN is that I end up with only 1 or 2 fewer options anyways: maybe 1 fewer Elite (saves 40 pts), and 1 fewer HS (saves like, barely 100 points), and then makes me buy an extra Canoness anyways (because you need 4 HQs). That's still not enough to allow Celestine in.

Right now, I like having:
1) A firebase of at least two Retributor Squads with HBs, Imagifier, Canoness (280 points ish) (Lately I've splurged for a foot-mobile unit of heavy-flamer Retributors who have been surprisingly productive at deterring this firebase from being attacked, mostly by melting the first wave of attackers to goo)

2) 2 all-melta Dominion squads in Immolators with Immolation Flamers for tank hunting. (480)

3) 10 Seraphim with inferno pistols to screen for celestine and help with tank hunting (~150)

4) 6 Sororitas squads (either around 10 girls each on foot plus an Imagifier to help them along, or 5 girls each in 3 Repressors, so ~616 for foot and 636 in repressors)

This is already ~1600 points or so, and only has 1 HQ in it, and for double BN I'd need 4 (assuming 2 more stock Canonesses that puts me at like 1700), and a mechanized unit to carry them (103 for Immolator) puts me at just over 1800ish. I can look into squeezing her in, maybe.

That doesn't leave a lot of room for your IG CP battery and Knight Castellan.

 deviantduck wrote:
That doesn't leave a lot of room for your IG CP battery and Knight Castellan.

I mentioned earlier that I'm playing mono-Sororitas lmao.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
That doesn't leave a lot of room for your IG CP battery and Knight Castellan.

I mentioned earlier that I'm playing mono-Sororitas lmao.

I think my joke went right over your hull. Did you jink?

 deviantduck wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
That doesn't leave a lot of room for your IG CP battery and Knight Castellan.

I mentioned earlier that I'm playing mono-Sororitas lmao.

I think my joke went right over your hull. Did you jink?

*panics*
...
...

Oh no I was just testing you, yeah, totally good joke, haha, nice man.

 Drider wrote:
It's a bit silly.

GW say that the Geminae do not count as unnamed characters so they cannot take the relic sword. It's to balance the unit and not make it even more powerful than it already is, otherwise they'd have to increase the cost to balance around it.

ITC say that the Geminae count as characters so they give up a point for head hunter every time one of them dies. it's to make her less attractive to imperial soup lists, unfortunately it means that it's a nerf to one of the only two good things in our index.

Although with the itc ruling, if a geminae is killed and head hunter is scored, surely that must mean that it's a viable trigger for the martyrdom stratagem?

The gemini can trigger the martyrdom strategem... but read the end of the strategem. You must remove the WHOLE unit the character was part of at the end of the turn. So... that means you just killed off any remaining gemini and celestine to trigger an act of faith. I don't think this will be worth it 99% of the time.

The reason the gemini can't take the relic sword is related to the fact they are "named" characters and no other named character can take relics. Sucks... but yes... thats what it is.

I think the biggest problem with sisters currently with ITC is how our core build gives up almost every itc secondary and our army is short ranged, meaning we can't keep up with the progressive mission style.

celestine gives up king slayer
Transports bleed BGH
moment of blood shed is cake with t3 models and 5 man size and BGH stacking with moment.

AND we can't even sit back and "out poke" like we used to because our exorcist is terrible.. str 8/ap-4 is good... but d6 shots and d3 dmg makes it terrible. The exorcist had random shots in previous editions because when it shot 3 shots it was on par with things like lascannon predators... but half the time is spiked to more efficient... now... its utter crap. If the missiles did flat 6 damage per hit and it fired 2d3 shots it'd be back to the old spikey efficiency (and rightfully feared status). OR... fire 2d6 shots... the damage output of sisters at range is crap.

My understanding this edition is that... Pt for point... storm bolters are the best weapon sisters of battle have and cause more damage than anything else. I'm gonna do some comparisons in excel one day and share

The more we talk about ITC, the more i hate it..... so glad i dont play ITC.

Just to clarify. According to the 2017 CA FAQ losing a Geminae does not trigger Martyrdom. The entire unit has to be destroyed to before you can use it. Small change, but in the spirit of getting it right.

Fought a looong and inconclusive game against Thousands Sons today. I enjoy playing this opponent, but today he had a new build with a lot of relatively new and less familiar powers, stratagems, etc. We didn't get past turn 2 after quite a few hours; he was up on Maelstrom points, but I was turning the tide. Magnus and his warlord were both down to their last wound: the Warlord I ran down with Seraphim, and Magnus was dragged down by Celestine, Bullgryns, and an Inquisitorial Vanguard. The cards hadn't gone my way early and I really needed another turn after my Scions hit the board. Takeaway message: Magnus is a badass, and the volume of Smite and other psychic ruination 1kSons can bring is frightening. Having 3x Deny attempts plus Purity of Faith is was got me through those phases.

In other news, new Sororitas wargear spotted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/18/18th-aug-warhammer-fest-europe-live-bloggw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/