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Hey all, trying to put together a list of things that while not strictly against the rules are something that you find sketchy / get annoyed by. Purpose of this is for me, and other players to find out if we do them & hopefully fix them. I'll start us off:

Please pick up failures & not successes on rolls. - I was guilty of this until an opponent noted that sometimes people will pick up their successes instead of failures & do it fast enough that they "accidentally" pick up a failure that you may not notice.

Do not use "Special dice" for certain rolls - you may be superstitious but all it does is draw suspicion, I know I get suspicious but if a handful is doing badly I usually just toss them into my "bad box" for the game.

Do not "float" the tape measure. - Either put it down or mark the distance with a die & move the model to that spot. - Too many times I've had people, intentional or not, move the tape measure as well as the model & get etra distance.

Do not extend the tape measure too far for your move. - I.E. 8" is fine for a 6" move but 18" is not. - This can be used to help judge distance before deciding what to shoot at.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything just want to spread the word & hear what you don't like so if I do it I can fix it.
One final thing, I realize this topic may get heated but please stay on topic & if you don't like what someone gets annoyed by take it to P.M.'s & keep the thread on topic.

Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

What do you guys think of this:
Measuring Longer range Weapons First: Say you have a vehicle that can shoot at multiple targets, one weapon has a longer range then the other. You shoot the longer range weapon first and measure it even though it is clearly in range. But doing this lets you see if the shorter range weapon is also in range. You are following RAW.

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

What do you guys think of this:
Measuring Longer range Weapons First: Say you have a vehicle that can shoot at multiple targets, one weapon has a longer range then the other. You shoot the longer range weapon first and measure it even though it is clearly in range. But doing this lets you see if the shorter range weapon is also in range. You are following RAW.

I don't mind people measuring longer range weaponry first, as long as they measure in the direction they are firing at - if they make a 360 degree circle of the tank, I might have an issue. But honestly, how many tanks have this issue?

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Do not use "Special dice" for certain rolls - you may be superstitious but all it does is draw suspicion, I know I get suspicious but if a handful is doing badly I usually just toss them into my "bad box" for the game.

I have three colors of dice, a dozen each of bronze, silver and gold. When I'm rolling for Warriors, I use the bronze ones. When I roll for Destroyers, I use the silver. When I roll for Lords I use the gold. Would that count as "special dice" for certain rolls?

lords2001 wrote:

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

What do you guys think of this:
Measuring Longer range Weapons First: Say you have a vehicle that can shoot at multiple targets, one weapon has a longer range then the other. You shoot the longer range weapon first and measure it even though it is clearly in range. But doing this lets you see if the shorter range weapon is also in range. You are following RAW.

I don't mind people measuring longer range weaponry first, as long as they measure in the direction they are firing at - if they make a 360 degree circle of the tank, I might have an issue. But honestly, how many tanks have this issue?

I was thinking specifically of a BW full of Lootas. Lootas range 48" and big shootas 36"

-Not declaring what you are rolling the dice for.

-Assuming I know every nuance rule of your army and never feel the need to explain what you are doing in the game.

- Not sharing dice/sticking to your own 'special dice'.

I have a collection of dice in a few different colours (so that I can roll the whole unit's shots together, and have different weapons be different colors). When i play a game, everyone is welcome to use them. All the dice go back in my pot, the game goes faster, everyone is happy.

I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who insists on using their own 'special' cube of dice, for superstition or otherwise, and won't let anyone else use them. Possible cheating aside, it slows down the game when you have to roll all the weapons individually because you want to use your 'special blue ultramarines dice'

Oh, and really important

- Leaving stuff all over the table!

No cans, books, food. Even try and keep the dice and tape measures in their dice box. A cluttered table makes my army look less pretty!


.

Geemoney wrote:What do you guys think of this:
Measuring Longer range Weapons First: Say you have a vehicle that can shoot at multiple targets, one weapon has a longer range then the other. You shoot the longer range weapon first and measure it even though it is clearly in range. But doing this lets you see if the shorter range weapon is also in range. You are following RAW.

I thought you had to declare where all your units were firing before you start measuring and rolling.

Aduro wrote:
I have three colors of dice, a dozen each of bronze, silver and gold. When I'm rolling for Warriors, I use the bronze ones. When I roll for Destroyers, I use the silver. When I roll for Lords I use the gold. Would that count as "special dice" for certain rolls?

No, that I'd say is fine but some people think a certain few dice are lucky & they always use them for certain types of rolls. I.E. Leadership is one color, Saves are another (One needs low rolls the other needs high). As long as you use the same dice for all types of rolls for that unit It's cool with me.

With the tank & using longest gun 1st, I don't mind as long as they can't shoot at multiple targets.

Edit: To avoid uneeded extra post @ Dexy (Below):
I think this is against RaW as he is moving his models more than their assault range which is not allowed.

Bundling in combat
I was playing a guy who I didn't really want to play but couldn't be bothered to argue, he had about 1 guy within charge range of my Chimera, then all of a sudden, the entire squad is surrounding my tank.

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

What do you guys think of this:
Measuring Longer range Weapons First: Say you have a vehicle that can shoot at multiple targets, one weapon has a longer range then the other. You shoot the longer range weapon first and measure it even though it is clearly in range. But doing this lets you see if the shorter range weapon is also in range. You are following RAW.

if your talking about a tank with an embarked unit, its legal. If its a vehicle that can fire at different targets by itself its not, as all fire from the same unit is declared at the same time.


though for fun i like to tell people i shoot bolters at their landraiders automatically hitting and scratching the paint. :-)

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

Maybe not exactly RAW, but I would argue that it shouldn't be a problem. I have smaller hands and it makes it very difficult to roll large ammounts of dice. I can understand the time it taking being a bit of an annoyance but honestly, its probably better than me trying to roll some dice and they falling out of my hands and knocking over some models

I recently got told I roll dice somewhat similarly to those fellas that can call a roll. I'm gonna start using a dice cup now, I think- I get really embarassed if people think I'm cheating!
I used to pick up successes too, but I'm training myself out of it- it didn't occur to me.

I used to pick up successes as well and didn’t really think much of it until an opponent mentioned something me. I was playing my horde style Tyranid list and was rolling large sets of dice quickly so that I wouldn’t bog the game down. Now I make a point of rolling dice towards the center of the table so my opponent has a clear view and then roll separate dice for follow up wound rolls.

All very good points but I would just caution that if you see a player doing some of these, don’t immediately jump down there throat as they could be unintentional.

Yeah I always roll a set of white stock dice for my leadership rolls. Never thought somebody would think I was cheating, I just figured it saved on confusion with the loads of other dice that were on the table. That and they are the ones that came in the box so they gotta roll low, right?

That and I always pick up success's, it is way faster. Of course, I picked them up after I slid the failures out of the way.

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

I don't even own 70 dice. Why would this ever be a problem unless they are deliberately stalling?

Soup and a roll wrote:unless they are deliberately stalling?

That's exactly why. I've never had an issue but I was playing in a tournament and one guy tried to do this because he realized in 2 turns he'd lose the objective to a Tyranid warrior squad (figured he'd still have it if time ran out before the warriors got there). TO was walking by & nipped it in the bud pretty quickly.

For me, unless it's fairly simple, i.e. shooting a vendetta at your unit with lascannons and its sponson heavy bolters so thered only be 2 types of dice, I don't really roll stuff together.

A) Im partially color blind... when somebody tries to explain to me their complex dice roll theyre about to do and they have a light blue die with marbling for this guys shot, and a dark blue die for that guys shot, etc. Its confusing and I often cant tell which dice are which.

B) Its just confusing. Lets not make things more complex. Different weapons, different BSes, etc, if youre getting into the 3 or 4 types of dice in your roll range and you need to put up a chart to explain it, then its too complex, just roll it out separately.

C) Half the time people could've just rolled out the rolls individually instead of taking the time to explain their complex roll and taken a similar amount of time.

Re: the 70 dice all at once thing... i dont know how your games go and what your terrain looks like, but people roll 2d6 and sometimes one goes off the table heh... I cant imagine rolling 70. I think breaking it up is fine and reasonable (as somebody previously said, I dont carry 70 dice with me.)

Just my opinion and how I do things.

I once won a game at a tournament because the other player was stalling. My Tau vs his Necrons, I was holding the objective, but it was only a short matter of time until I lost it. At one point I look up, and he's gone.I look around for a minute, and he'd gone outside for a smoke break, and was out there a good 15 minutes. Comes back, and he gets to talking with his friend next to him about some random stuff with no relevance to the game, such as his long dead grandmother. Realizing that I'm winning, and he's wasting his chance for almost inevitable victory, I just lean back and wait. Time gets called, and he throws a fit because he didn't get to finish the game and he was going to win.

My take on this:
-(successes)I've always picked out failures. seems faster to me; you take failures and then just scoop up the hits and roll 'em real quick
-(special dice)This would irritate me if and only if I noticed something was wrong. honestly, how many people have rigged dice? If I noted that those particular dice always rolled ones then I may take a look...
-(Floating tape measure)Not sure what this means
-(extending to far)I usually pull it out, say, 9 inches so that the back of the measure isn't squishing a model. If I saw someone extending it the other direction (in front of the models) over 12" i might get a little wary. If that extended tape measure *just so happened* to touch one of my squads, then I might get a little mad.
-(rolling small dice numbers)Depends. If I see they have 40 dice and they are rolling in increments of ten I would get pissed. If they have 40 dice and have to roll 70, of course it will take 2 rolls
-(Not sharing dice)I'm split on this one. Dice for some reason are a little personal to some people. Maybe because it's expected of you to bring your own or something, or maybe just because people like their "lucky dice". Would you let someone constantly use your tape measure or codex? I personally would RATHER they used their dice because I would hate for them to accidentally lose one of mine and have my cube missing a space, but if they need to i personally don't mind
-(Rolling different dice for different weapons)As a tau player I have to roll multiple colors every turn when shooting a crisis unit, and sometimes hate to roll 4+ different weapons and bs' in a unit. Two weapons I don't mind. 3 I'll do. but 4 or more I will roll separately. otherwise I end up forgetting which color is what mid-roll.

Fierce, by floating tape measure I mean holding the tape measure in the air with one hand & moving your model with the other.

Many times I notice the tape measure moves forward as they move the model. Also I tested it myself a few times and I tended to get an extra .5-1.5" movement because when my one hand moved forward for a model, unintentionally, my other did as well.

One other thing:

Say you're firing bolters. Do not measure the full range to the unit you are shooting at. Measure from your unit to the target but STOP at 24" or when you reach the unit, whatever comes first. If they are outside than you miss. Otherwise I feel you get the unfair knowledge of exactly how far away the target is & when I will be in range by math-hammering how far I move + how far you move.

What is the correct response when playing against someone who is legitimately cheating (not forgetting if a vehicle is stunned or being unsure of some rules).

I had a friend at Adepticon who played a thousands son army - didn't know much about them and the opponent told them there save on the squad was a 4++. He didn't know any better so never questioned it.

What recourse do you have? For any rules disagreements you can always call a judge in. But if you are constantly catching and calling the guy out and move than 6" movements or moving his vehicles slightly in the shooting phase to get a better LOS or moving his infantry up during MY movement phase.. what can you do? It gets tiring to have to constantly watch someone... can you call a tournament judge over and ask him to watch the game?

What are everyone's thoughts?

If he's blatantly cheating, call him out on it loud enough for the people at the next table to hear (not necessarily the whole room mind you) and tell him if he doesn't knock it off you'll be getting the judge. If that doesn't cow his behavior then tell the judge what all he's been doing. Even if he stops at first warning, tell the judge after the game so they know to keep an eye on him.

My pet peeve at a TO is that everyone waits till the tournament is over before the tell me about some kind of shenanigans their opponent was pulling. What do they expect me to do about it then?

Thanks Aduro.

I guess if you don't realized he was cheating until after the game there isn't much you can do about it. Just saw Redbeard's post about his last game in the Championship series and saw how the opposing player didn't roll for the deepstrike mishap when grav chuting guys out of his Vendetta. Those kind of things suck, but I guess I'll learn to be more aware next time.

I can't stand players that have a set of dice with the numbers in a different language (Chinese, Klingon, etc etc.) and then proceeds to roll and pick-up as fast as they can.

Brother Ramses wrote:I can't stand players that have a set of dice with the numbers in a different language (Chinese, Klingon, etc etc.) and then proceeds to roll and pick-up as fast as they can.

There's no way I would allow someone to play with klingon dice

Aduro wrote:If he's blatantly cheating, call him out on it loud enough for the people at the next table to hear (not necessarily the whole room mind you) and tell him if he doesn't knock it off you'll be getting the judge. If that doesn't cow his behavior then tell the judge what all he's been doing. Even if he stops at first warning, tell the judge after the game so they know to keep an eye on him.

My pet peeve at a TO is that everyone waits till the tournament is over before the tell me about some kind of shenanigans their opponent was pulling. What do they expect me to do about it then?

While I agree this is the best solution, I think a lot of people refrain from doing so because accusations of cheating will often cause the accused to mark you down on sportsmanship (assuming there is sportsmanship scoring at the event). This has been the case for me on more than one occasion.

bluedevil27 wrote:I had a friend at Adepticon who played a thousands son army - didn't know much about them and the opponent told them there save on the squad was a 4++. He didn't know any better so never questioned it.

Isn't it 3+/4++?

Soup and a roll wrote:

Geemoney wrote:Rolling Dice in Small Numbers: Its common where I play. A player needs to roll 70 dice, so he rolls 10 dice 7 times. I don't believe this is RAW.

I don't even own 70 dice. Why would this ever be a problem unless they are deliberately stalling?

I have 72 dice and i play orks, and I have on occasion rolled that many (I just dump them out of the boxes). It be be a problem because it is easier to use "practiced rolling" techniques on a smaller amount of dice. It is also hard to keep track of how many hits you have when doing it that way.