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ERJAK wrote: It's why I generally don't bother with the 4++ unless I'm running valorous heart and it's why I find transporting melee units to be significantly stronger than foot slog.l.
Agreed, though I find myself feeling OoBR would have been better when running VH. I am very impressed with the new MMImmo's so far, not official as of yet but in house games Are you running any Repentia boxes?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I dropped out my second Exo and came up with the following list.
OoBR
Canoness- WL- Indomitable bp, ccw Canoness- IP and Beneficence
Canoness- IP and AB
4 x BSS- (5) Combi-melta 2xSB
4 x Immolator tw-MM, HvB
Repentia Sup
Imagifer- Tale of the Warrior
2 x Repentia- (8)
2 x Rhino, SB
2 x Seraphim- (5) tw-IP x 2
Exorcist- EML, HvB
Retributors- (5) HvB x 4
Looking to sit the Exo, Rets and WL in the back. BSS in Immo's swamp mid board obj's and Repentia bombs hide as best they can to go choppy as needed. Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 23:46:40
I’ve always liked your mech lists as they’re always dangerous and balanced. Too bad we don’t get to mech up in Repressors any more.
Why Indomitable instead of Beacon on your WL? Seems you’d get more benefit out of an extra MD for charges / EML rather than the +1 Inv sitting in the back that doesn’t even help the Exorcist.
What are the thoughts on a competitive list with mainly Ministorum units, meant to rush headlong and smash into the opponent and knock them off objectives from sheer number of attacks all over the board?
Why Indomitable instead of Beacon on your WL? Seems you’d get more benefit out of an extra MD for charges / EML rather than the +1 Inv sitting in the back that doesn’t even help the Exorcist.
Good point. Honestly probably included it out of habit. I do miss the Repressor even as I am converting my church tanks to have Immo turrets.
Sadly all of my 40k lately has been in the house with friends. Without a tourney to go to I am getting sloppy with things like that. Thanks again!
Niiru wrote: Are there any allies that are worth including in a sisters army (despite the costs of CP and loss of sacred rites) to fill any weaknesses?
Thematically iv always liked taking an Inquisitor (usually greyfax but sometimes the guy on the stompy throne), and an assassin, though now that would require 2 seperate detachments to do.
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
Didn't both inquisitor and assasin have rule that gives you one to detachment without even breaking rites etc? Or is there additional restriction if you want to field 1 of both?
tneva82 wrote: Didn't both inquisitor and assasin have rule that gives you one to detachment without even breaking rites etc? Or is there additional restriction if you want to field 1 of both?
they share the same special rule/keyword that only allows you to take 1 in a detachment without breaking, so if you take both an inquisitor and an assassin in the same detachment you break your detachment, so have to run 2 detachments if you want both... which is pretty gakky.
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
ERJAK wrote: It's why I generally don't bother with the 4++ unless I'm running valorous heart and it's why I find transporting melee units to be significantly stronger than foot slog.l.
Agreed, though I find myself feeling OoBR would have been better when running VH. I am very impressed with the new MMImmo's so far, not official as of yet but in house games Are you running any Repentia boxes?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I dropped out my second Exo and came up with the following list.
OoBR Canoness- WL- Indomitable bp, ccw Canoness- IP and Beneficence Canoness- IP and AB
4 x BSS- (5) Combi-melta 2xSB 4 x Immolator tw-MM, HvB
Repentia Sup Imagifer- Tale of the Warrior 2 x Repentia- (8) 2 x Rhino, SB
2 x Seraphim- (5) tw-IP x 2
Exorcist- EML, HvB Retributors- (5) HvB x 4
Looking to sit the Exo, Rets and WL in the back. BSS in Immo's swamp mid board obj's and Repentia bombs hide as best they can to go choppy as needed. Thoughts?
I haven't played with any of the NEW profiles yet but I've been doing BR lists with two sets of repentia in rhinos, one or two sets of Celestians, also in rhinos, and some Mortifiers and it's been incredibly successful (and a lot of fun) so far.
As for the list, the only thing I can see that I would change is finding some way to work a preacher in. They buff repentia a lot more than imagifiers do against anything that isn't T6 or T7. Though Canonesses benefit more from the imagifier (more base attacks means additional strength gets better as additional attacks get proportionally worse) Not sure what you'd cut for it though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiru wrote: Are there any allies that are worth including in a sisters army (despite the costs of CP and loss of sacred rites) to fill any weaknesses?
there honestly aren't really any allies sisters can take that are significantly better than what sisters can take for themselves(At least while still having it be a sisters army with allies and not like...a marine army with 800pts of sisters in it). Especially for melee lists where The Passion is a pretty huge damage boost.
Sisters tend to be the allies you take to give yourself a cheap melee bomb that can guarantee its own charges.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/22 15:24:22
Some suggestions after reading the last few pages.
Repentias should not be kept in reserve. Keep them on the center of your deployment zone, in a rhino, behind a ruin preferably so they cant be shot. They act a massive deterrent to anything your opponent does.
With a 1CP investment, to advance and charge, they can threaten anything with a 27 inch charge on their turn (assuming you have three 6s banked for act of faiths). Add 2 more inches to this if you have hand of the emperor as your sacred rite. Very few things are as reliable at getting to their target as they are. Having them on the table, where you need them, will give your opponent something to be worried about at all times.
Bloody Rose Celestians are also incredibly effective. I don't see them in too many lists, but they should be more present.
For 125 points you can get 10 of them and have a maul on your superior.
They synergize very well with a canoness and imagifier as they protect them from snipers and get seriously buffed by them in return. Add in a preacher for good measure.
Spend 3 CPs for Exceptional Proficiency and Tear Them Down and and they can bring down almost every standard infantry squads in the game, including plague marines. They get the added bonus of being much more resilient than repentias while being slightly cheaper. On the downside they cannot bring a knight down in a single turn, but they can still chip away at it pretty reliably.
Voldrak wrote: Some suggestions after reading the last few pages.
Repentias should not be kept in reserve. Keep them on the center of your deployment zone, in a rhino, behind a ruin preferably so they cant be shot. They act a massive deterrent to anything your opponent does.
With a 1CP investment, to advance and charge, they can threaten anything with a 27 inch charge on their turn (assuming you have three 6s banked for act of faiths). Add 2 more inches to this if you have hand of the emperor as your sacred rite. Very few things are as reliable at getting to their target as they are. Having them on the table, where you need them, will give your opponent something to be worried about at all times.
Bloody Rose Celestians are also incredibly effective. I don't see them in too many lists, but they should be more present.
For 125 points you can get 10 of them and have a maul on your superior.
They synergize very well with a canoness and imagifier as they protect them from snipers and get seriously buffed by them in return. Add in a preacher for good measure.
Spend 3 CPs for Exceptional Proficiency and Tear Them Down and and they can bring down almost every standard infantry squads in the game, including plague marines. They get the added bonus of being much more resilient than repentias while being slightly cheaper. On the downside they cannot bring a knight down in a single turn, but they can still chip away at it pretty reliably.
ERJAK wrote: It's why I generally don't bother with the 4++ unless I'm running valorous heart and it's why I find transporting melee units to be significantly stronger than foot slog.l.
Agreed, though I find myself feeling OoBR would have been better when running VH. I am very impressed with the new MMImmo's so far, not official as of yet but in house games Are you running any Repentia boxes?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I dropped out my second Exo and came up with the following list.
OoBR
Canoness- WL- Indomitable bp, ccw Canoness- IP and Beneficence
Canoness- IP and AB
4 x BSS- (5) Combi-melta 2xSB
4 x Immolator tw-MM, HvB
Repentia Sup
Imagifer- Tale of the Warrior
2 x Repentia- (8)
2 x Rhino, SB
2 x Seraphim- (5) tw-IP x 2
Exorcist- EML, HvB
Retributors- (5) HvB x 4
Looking to sit the Exo, Rets and WL in the back. BSS in Immo's swamp mid board obj's and Repentia bombs hide as best they can to go choppy as needed. Thoughts?
I haven't played with any of the NEW profiles yet but I've been doing BR lists with two sets of repentia in rhinos, one or two sets of Celestians, also in rhinos, and some Mortifiers and it's been incredibly successful (and a lot of fun) so far.
As for the list, the only thing I can see that I would change is finding some way to work a preacher in. They buff repentia a lot more than imagifiers do against anything that isn't T6 or T7. Though Canonesses benefit more from the imagifier (more base attacks means additional strength gets better as additional attacks get proportionally worse) Not sure what you'd cut for it though.
That's easy downgrade two of the Immolators from Twin MultiMeltas to Immolation Flamers or Twin Heavy Bolters frees up 40 points, enough to add a Preacher. It's not like the list isn't already swimming in melta attacks without two of 4 Immolators having them.
Triumph and sanctum and i have had that trick doable. Albeit sanctum died now so.
Tried repentia in reserve(plus another squad in rhino) yesterday. What they did give me was threat to backfield. Albeit didn't use optimally, rolled badly costing further 3 and had to sacrifice 4 for sake of 2 vp but...had i not had those in reserve 2 less vp.
Three 6s on Turn 1 is obviously difficult, but not impossible.
With the proper list you can generate 4 miracle dices at the beginning of the game. If you are going second, you will start with 5 and likely have 1 or 2 more by the time you get to your charge phase.
Litanies of Faith allows you to re-roll a dice and the Triumph also allows you to turn a 5 into another 6.
You are unlikely to charge out repentias on turn 1 unless your opponent deploys poorly or make some sort of mistake. While the option might still be there, they are a much better used to play mind games with your opponent and keeping them for turn 2 or 3. By then you will have the dices you need to get them where you want... hopefully, bad dice days happen to everybody unfortunately.
As for the list, the only thing I can see that I would change is finding some way to work a preacher in. They buff repentia a lot more than imagifiers do against anything that isn't T6 or T7. Though Canonesses benefit more from the imagifier (more base attacks means additional strength gets better as additional attacks get proportionally worse) Not sure what you'd cut for it though.
Drop one Repentia so the Preacher can ride as well. Drop one particular fiesty Immolator down from MM to IF?
Voldrak wrote: Three 6s on Turn 1 is obviously difficult, but not impossible.
With the proper list you can generate 4 miracle dices at the beginning of the game. If you are going second, you will start with 5 and likely have 1 or 2 more by the time you get to your charge phase.
Litanies of Faith allows you to re-roll a dice and the Triumph also allows you to turn a 5 into another 6.
You are unlikely to charge out repentias on turn 1 unless your opponent deploys poorly or make some sort of mistake. While the option might still be there, they are a much better used to play mind games with your opponent and keeping them for turn 2 or 3. By then you will have the dices you need to get them where you want... hopefully, bad dice days happen to everybody unfortunately.
Or you could play the poor persons game and put them in reserves.
I'm not saying don't do what you do, but there are multiple ways of playing Repentia and Rhinos aren't mandatory for them.
Heavy: 3
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
2000 points, 8 Starting CP
One cannoness may need to sit back and babysit the 3 exorcists for the re-roll 1s. Other Cannoness and 3 elite characters will sit in transports. So 7 vehicles and total 64 models. I expect opponent to either take bring it down or assassinate secondary, whcih will suck, but can't do much. Hopefully with 8 CP, I can do lots of killing and ressurecting since there isn't too much CP outlets. Hopefully 3 exorcists is enough AT, while repentia can deal with hordes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/25 00:52:01
Heavy: 3
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
2000 points, 8 Starting CP
One cannoness may need to sit back and babysit the 3 exorcists for the re-roll 1s. Other Cannoness and 3 elite characters will sit in transports. So 7 vehicles and total 64 models. I expect opponent to either take bring it down or assassinate secondary, whcih will suck, but can't do much. Hopefully with 8 CP, I can do lots of killing and ressurecting since there isn't too much CP outlets. Hopefully 3 exorcists is enough AT, while repentia can deal with hordes.
Why venerated saint? Archos are good with hordes too. Becon of Faith?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/24 22:53:23
Heavy: 3
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
1 Exorcist-Exorcist Missile Launcher, Hunter Killer Missile, Heavy Bolter
2000 points, 8 Starting CP
One cannoness may need to sit back and babysit the 3 exorcists for the re-roll 1s. Other Cannoness and 3 elite characters will sit in transports. So 7 vehicles and total 64 models. I expect opponent to either take bring it down or assassinate secondary, whcih will suck, but can't do much. Hopefully with 8 CP, I can do lots of killing and ressurecting since there isn't too much CP outlets. Hopefully 3 exorcists is enough AT, while repentia can deal with hordes.
Why venerated saint? Archos are good with hordes too. Becon of Faith?
Sorry Celestine is warlord with Beacon of Faith. Archos replace what, celestians? Want the bodyguard rule when fighting gets thick and also want units to that can take advantage of order and faith bonuses.
List looks solid. I'd probably drop Celestine for a deepstriking min squad of seraphims with inferno pistols + plasma, a 4th min squad of troops and some special weapons to celestians (a couple of melta and a power weapon) which can re-roll all hits while within the canoness. Removing hunter killers or canonesses pistols if there aren't enough spared points. Babysitting canoness inherits Beacon from Celestine and could replace her blessed blade for a power sword in order to get a 9'' aura which might help with 3 tanks.
I'd also skip the second litany to the imagifier, leaving her with the +1S aura.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/25 06:41:43
kiron wrote: Sorry Celestine is warlord with Beacon of Faith. Archos replace what, celestians? Want the bodyguard rule when fighting gets thick and also want units to that can take advantage of order and faith bonuses.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd drop for Archos. Maybe a few Repentia? It was more idea throwing for dealing with 1w hoards.
I've been wondering about an odd interaction between Order of our Martyred Lady's conviction and the spirit of the martyr sacred rite.
If a single model (eg exorcist) is destroyed, and you roll a 5+ for the rite, would it technically benefit from the +1 to hit, because now the unit has had a model destroyed, even if it hasn't been removed yet?
It's kinda iffy ruleswise, but I think it'd be really thematic and cool, albeit niche.
ArikTaranis wrote: I've been wondering about an odd interaction between Order of our Martyred Lady's conviction and the spirit of the martyr sacred rite.
If a single model (eg exorcist) is destroyed, and you roll a 5+ for the rite, would it technically benefit from the +1 to hit, because now the unit has had a model destroyed, even if it hasn't been removed yet?
It's kinda iffy ruleswise, but I think it'd be really thematic and cool, albeit niche.
Yes it works like that. The rules for the Rite says after the model has been destroyed BUT before it has been removed from the table. It is at this point that you roll.
The OoML conviction states that after a model from a unit has been destroyed, the unit gets the +1 to hit. It doesn’t specify that only the rest of the unit gets the +1 to hit bonus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/26 15:51:16
ArikTaranis wrote: I've been wondering about an odd interaction between Order of our Martyred Lady's conviction and the spirit of the martyr sacred rite.
If a single model (eg exorcist) is destroyed, and you roll a 5+ for the rite, would it technically benefit from the +1 to hit, because now the unit has had a model destroyed, even if it hasn't been removed yet?
It's kinda iffy ruleswise, but I think it'd be really thematic and cool, albeit niche.
I would say it would benefit from the +1 to hit. The wording is clear - you roll after the model is destroyed, but before it is removed from the battlefield.
Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
The list validated several things I’ve been thinking-
1. mono Bloody Rose is perhaps our most competitive build
2. the fear of giving up Bring it Down due to vehicles is not a barrier to winning competitively. This list gave up fully 15 VP in secondaries and yet he won;
3. there were 9 Mortifiers - which have been relegated for the most part as not a competitive choice
4. only one squad of ObSec, since these are not our best choices
5. besides the lone BSS the only other non-melee oriented unit was a single squad of 9 Celestians
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/28 11:22:13
The list validated several things I’ve been thinking-
1. mono Bloody Rose is perhaps our most competitive build
2. the fear of giving up Bring it Down due to vehicles is not a barrier to winning competitively. This list gave up fully 15 VP in secondaries and yet he won;
3. there were 9 Mortifiers - which have been relegated for the most part as not a competitive choice
4. only one squad of ObSec, since these are not our best choices
5. besides the lone BSS the only other non-melee oriented unit was a single squad of 6 Celestians
Mass melee with fast units is a general recipe for success. I'm not surprised in that respect.
That said, I'm definitely surprised at the lack of obsec. But I guess looking back at my games, most objectives aren't contested to the point where obsec comes into play, so I guess that works, and if you just kill the enemy in their zone, they can't hold objectives.
That's a lot of assault power, but I have to question how they're holding their backfield objectives. With everything but the squad of BSS and the Celestians being essentially melee specialists, there doesn't seem like enough to hold down the fort in the back and prevent things like jumpboyz, scions, and anything space marine from showing up back there and taking away the backfield points.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2. the fear of giving up Bring it Down due to vehicles is not a barrier to winning competitively. This list gave up fully 15 VP in secondaries and yet he won;
Yeah, this is a misconception. Playing lots of medium-low armored vehicles guarantees 15 VP for the opponent but also allows to create very effective lists. I always play with tons of vehicles with my orks and I never got disappointed for that choice, even if my opponent always maxes out the Bring It Down secondary.
This list goes heavy on getting into assault. 24x T5/ W5 with 24 HBs and 24 HFs, and that’s not counting the Zephyrim and 22 Repentia with Missionary plus scary Canoness.
The list validated several things I’ve been thinking-
1. mono Bloody Rose is perhaps our most competitive build
2. the fear of giving up Bring it Down due to vehicles is not a barrier to winning competitively. This list gave up fully 15 VP in secondaries and yet he won;
3. there were 9 Mortifiers - which have been relegated for the most part as not a competitive choice
4. only one squad of ObSec, since these are not our best choices
5. besides the lone BSS the only other non-melee oriented unit was a single squad of 6 Celestians
Mass melee with fast units is a general recipe for success. I'm not surprised in that respect.
That said, I'm definitely surprised at the lack of obsec. But I guess looking back at my games, most objectives aren't contested to the point where obsec comes into play, so I guess that works, and if you just kill the enemy in their zone, they can't hold objectives.
That's a lot of assault power, but I have to question how they're holding their backfield objectives. With everything but the squad of BSS and the Celestians being essentially melee specialists, there doesn't seem like enough to hold down the fort in the back and prevent things like jumpboyz, scions, and anything space marine from showing up back there and taking away the backfield points.
1 Squad of Mortifiers/Pen. Engines in reserves and the Angelic Hosts was probably enough. I don't think people are thinking about attacking the back field enough
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/30 15:40:51
