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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 lindsay40k wrote:
Niiru wrote:
How are people equipping their Sorcerers?

For the points, jet pack seems like a no-brainer upgrade to me, though I'm not sure about whether terminator armour is a worthwhile alternative. I know some people also like the daemon mounts, but I'm concerned that they're being phased out of the game by GW so dunno if I want to invest unless its really worthwhile for my list.

Which weapons though? Do you stay default with force sword + bolt pistol, or are there some worthy upgrades to pick up? I did consider combi-plasma, but it would only be the one guy shooting.

I'm considering deep striking a sorcerer in with a squad of warp talons. Warptime and maybe Prescience or Miasma of Pestilence, depending on if they're better of killier or tougher.


I'm mainly running a Slaanesh Steed guy. He gets Herald buffs, I want the option of DA if Warptime isn't needed, he can Advance and pop a shot with his Combi-Flamer then charge. Gave him Force Axe as we usually end up having a cavalry battle between T5 Thunderwolves and Slaaneshi critters. Won me my last game by being able to zoom up to Harald Deathwolf and Smite him to contribute to Kingslayer.

In small games, I've had good results with a bare bones Sorcerer. He enabled a horde to run right up to the enemy and force them to drop their Terminators in to deal with them. After that, they had to walk across the board towards my Havocs.

Jump Pack seems the way to go for a Warp Talon strike. You ideally want to be able to drop outside of DTW coverage.

My friends want to try some Open and Narrative games. Definitely going to be dropping in a Terminator Sorcerer; he lands in a Ruin where he can Warptime some Terminators or whatever, and in subsequent turns he's a source of Summoning with loads of wounds and a solid save. Suddenly, WB become amazing!

I've mothballed my Palanquin Sorcerer, he was an excellent Summoner in 7ed but now that he can't move and bring the Warp... I'm not finding him worth it at all tbh. Maybe dig him out in an Epidemius list where he can Smite and Gaze some kills, but that's hella marginal and if that's his game then he wants to be DG, not WB - or better yet, drop him and just take more Obliterators.

Actually, RAW, a Palanquin Sorcerer is pure DG's only source of Warptime & (maybe) Death Hex. That's a niche I hadn't considered. Probably end up getting FAQ'd to Contagion, though - if you already have one then whip that piñata, but don't bother sinking time & money into a hobby project just to exploit this loophole.


I really appreciate the tips I see you liked delightful agonies and the seeker steed, do you run a lot of slaanesh units? I'm still looking at which chaos god to focus on - I like seekers and chariots, but also plague drones and epidemius seem useful. Which units do you find worthwhile to accompany CSM?

I do like the idea of a steed sorcerer accompanying my footslogging units, but I would probably run a daemon prince in that role as he has no access to deepstriking. I would probably instead pick a herald on steed, in order to get access to a seperate psychic tree (which means more spells in matched play!). In open or narrative though, I can see where multiple warptimes would be handy!
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Spoiler:
Niiru wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Niiru wrote:
How are people equipping their Sorcerers?

For the points, jet pack seems like a no-brainer upgrade to me, though I'm not sure about whether terminator armour is a worthwhile alternative. I know some people also like the daemon mounts, but I'm concerned that they're being phased out of the game by GW so dunno if I want to invest unless its really worthwhile for my list.

Which weapons though? Do you stay default with force sword + bolt pistol, or are there some worthy upgrades to pick up? I did consider combi-plasma, but it would only be the one guy shooting.

I'm considering deep striking a sorcerer in with a squad of warp talons. Warptime and maybe Prescience or Miasma of Pestilence, depending on if they're better of killier or tougher.


I'm mainly running a Slaanesh Steed guy. He gets Herald buffs, I want the option of DA if Warptime isn't needed, he can Advance and pop a shot with his Combi-Flamer then charge. Gave him Force Axe as we usually end up having a cavalry battle between T5 Thunderwolves and Slaaneshi critters. Won me my last game by being able to zoom up to Harald Deathwolf and Smite him to contribute to Kingslayer.

In small games, I've had good results with a bare bones Sorcerer. He enabled a horde to run right up to the enemy and force them to drop their Terminators in to deal with them. After that, they had to walk across the board towards my Havocs.

Jump Pack seems the way to go for a Warp Talon strike. You ideally want to be able to drop outside of DTW coverage.

My friends want to try some Open and Narrative games. Definitely going to be dropping in a Terminator Sorcerer; he lands in a Ruin where he can Warptime some Terminators or whatever, and in subsequent turns he's a source of Summoning with loads of wounds and a solid save. Suddenly, WB become amazing!

I've mothballed my Palanquin Sorcerer, he was an excellent Summoner in 7ed but now that he can't move and bring the Warp... I'm not finding him worth it at all tbh. Maybe dig him out in an Epidemius list where he can Smite and Gaze some kills, but that's hella marginal and if that's his game then he wants to be DG, not WB - or better yet, drop him and just take more Obliterators.

Actually, RAW, a Palanquin Sorcerer is pure DG's only source of Warptime & (maybe) Death Hex. That's a niche I hadn't considered. Probably end up getting FAQ'd to Contagion, though - if you already have one then whip that piñata, but don't bother sinking time & money into a hobby project just to exploit this loophole.


I really appreciate the tips I see you liked delightful agonies and the seeker steed, do you run a lot of slaanesh units? I'm still looking at which chaos god to focus on - I like seekers and chariots, but also plague drones and epidemius seem useful. Which units do you find worthwhile to accompany CSM?

I do like the idea of a steed sorcerer accompanying my footslogging units, but I would probably run a daemon prince in that role as he has no access to deepstriking. I would probably instead pick a herald on steed, in order to get access to a seperate psychic tree (which means more spells in matched play!). In open or narrative though, I can see where multiple warptimes would be handy!


My main Slaaneshi HA unit is plasma Chosen, I've got Possessed on my hobby list but they're a ways off yet. DA will be a high priority for them - FNP is made for 2W units, almost doubling their endurance against the likes of autocannons. Outside of Matched Play, they'll definitely be jumping out of a Dreadclaw and protecting a deep insertion Summoner - DA on the Possessed, Gaze on some annoying support character, and get popping out KoS & Fiends.

Currently, Steed Sorcerer mostly gets Death Hex and Prescience, there's a lot of 3++ in my games. But the squadron he goes forth with is a Steed Herald, Seekers, and Fiends - highly mobile and able to deal with a range of dangerous units.

Other daemon must-haves are a Herald of Nurgle to keep Oblits (mine are undeniably Nurgle) and DP in the fight, Plaguebearers & Nurglings to hold objectives & disrupt deployment, and Flesh Hounds to fill out an Outriders detachment with the Dreadclaw. Nothing wrong with fifteen S5 AP-1 attacks.

Buff spell DP projecting re-rolls from his large base is a fine multiplier for an infantry contingent. He's going to tank most snipers, including a Vindicare, and as a melee counter he can't be lascannoned away like a Helbrute. Caesar rode a horse and wore a red sagum for a reason - mobile, visible leadership is a great asset to a battle line.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 lindsay40k wrote:
Spoiler:
Niiru wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Niiru wrote:
How are people equipping their Sorcerers?

For the points, jet pack seems like a no-brainer upgrade to me, though I'm not sure about whether terminator armour is a worthwhile alternative. I know some people also like the daemon mounts, but I'm concerned that they're being phased out of the game by GW so dunno if I want to invest unless its really worthwhile for my list.

Which weapons though? Do you stay default with force sword + bolt pistol, or are there some worthy upgrades to pick up? I did consider combi-plasma, but it would only be the one guy shooting.

I'm considering deep striking a sorcerer in with a squad of warp talons. Warptime and maybe Prescience or Miasma of Pestilence, depending on if they're better of killier or tougher.


I'm mainly running a Slaanesh Steed guy. He gets Herald buffs, I want the option of DA if Warptime isn't needed, he can Advance and pop a shot with his Combi-Flamer then charge. Gave him Force Axe as we usually end up having a cavalry battle between T5 Thunderwolves and Slaaneshi critters. Won me my last game by being able to zoom up to Harald Deathwolf and Smite him to contribute to Kingslayer.

In small games, I've had good results with a bare bones Sorcerer. He enabled a horde to run right up to the enemy and force them to drop their Terminators in to deal with them. After that, they had to walk across the board towards my Havocs.

Jump Pack seems the way to go for a Warp Talon strike. You ideally want to be able to drop outside of DTW coverage.

My friends want to try some Open and Narrative games. Definitely going to be dropping in a Terminator Sorcerer; he lands in a Ruin where he can Warptime some Terminators or whatever, and in subsequent turns he's a source of Summoning with loads of wounds and a solid save. Suddenly, WB become amazing!

I've mothballed my Palanquin Sorcerer, he was an excellent Summoner in 7ed but now that he can't move and bring the Warp... I'm not finding him worth it at all tbh. Maybe dig him out in an Epidemius list where he can Smite and Gaze some kills, but that's hella marginal and if that's his game then he wants to be DG, not WB - or better yet, drop him and just take more Obliterators.

Actually, RAW, a Palanquin Sorcerer is pure DG's only source of Warptime & (maybe) Death Hex. That's a niche I hadn't considered. Probably end up getting FAQ'd to Contagion, though - if you already have one then whip that piñata, but don't bother sinking time & money into a hobby project just to exploit this loophole.


I really appreciate the tips I see you liked delightful agonies and the seeker steed, do you run a lot of slaanesh units? I'm still looking at which chaos god to focus on - I like seekers and chariots, but also plague drones and epidemius seem useful. Which units do you find worthwhile to accompany CSM?

I do like the idea of a steed sorcerer accompanying my footslogging units, but I would probably run a daemon prince in that role as he has no access to deepstriking. I would probably instead pick a herald on steed, in order to get access to a seperate psychic tree (which means more spells in matched play!). In open or narrative though, I can see where multiple warptimes would be handy!


My main Slaaneshi HA unit is plasma Chosen, I've got Possessed on my hobby list but they're a ways off yet. DA will be a high priority for them - FNP is made for 2W units, almost doubling their endurance against the likes of autocannons. Outside of Matched Play, they'll definitely be jumping out of a Dreadclaw and protecting a deep insertion Summoner - DA on the Possessed, Gaze on some annoying support character, and get popping out KoS & Fiends.

Currently, Steed Sorcerer mostly gets Death Hex and Prescience, there's a lot of 3++ in my games. But the squadron he goes forth with is a Steed Herald, Seekers, and Fiends - highly mobile and able to deal with a range of dangerous units.

Other daemon must-haves are a Herald of Nurgle to keep Oblits (mine are undeniably Nurgle) and DP in the fight, Plaguebearers & Nurglings to hold objectives & disrupt deployment, and Flesh Hounds to fill out an Outriders detachment with the Dreadclaw. Nothing wrong with fifteen S5 AP-1 attacks.

Buff spell DP projecting re-rolls from his large base is a fine multiplier for an infantry contingent. He's going to tank most snipers, including a Vindicare, and as a melee counter he can't be lascannoned away like a Helbrute. Caesar rode a horse and wore a red sagum for a reason - mobile, visible leadership is a great asset to a battle line.



How are you getting a herald of nurgle anywhere near your oblits? I figure oblits are always deepstriking in to position, and the herald is a slow 5" mover. The slowness of nurgle units is the only reason I hesitate to field them (except for drones, which are speedy and nasty it seems).


Also, on a seperate topic, Blue Scribes ... does noone play them? They seem to get around the big expensive downside of Tzeentch psychic powers, by making them pass the psychic tests automatically. True, you do a random power, but all three of their powers seem to have a use. I also don't see any reason why they can't cast a spell that has already been cast by another tzeentch sorcerer, as they don't actually cast the power it's just randomly manifested... Might be a YMDC topic though.

   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




With the death guard book out, can I take a chaos sorcerer from this list with DG keyword to get warp time without breaking DG allegiance?
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

@Niiru - I find I often use my Obliterators to help intercept an enemy attack. If they were Slaaneshi, I'd absolutely use them more aggressively - being Nurgle, I'll look for places they can land where I can support them, making the best of the army I have. But no trouble if I can't find such a dropzone - Herald can usually Smite something if the DP doesn't need healing.

I've been trying Karanak and a Jugger Herald as other HQ options... they're not bad. Very nice to follow a Rhino full of Possessed with the Flesh Hounds in tow.

@snottlebocket - not from the Codex, but they haven't YET closed the loophole of taking a Sorcerer from the Index. Expect it to raise eyebrows, cause arguments, and be shut down by some TOs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/23 21:10:52


   
Made in es
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




Spain

So, for all of you who may still have doubts of the potential of Alpha Legion Tzeench Obliterators let me tell you what happened to me today on my Local GW store:

I deployed my Obliterators on top of a black tower in the center of the table, near The Changelling. They are still black primed. Forget the -2 to hit, they were so camuflaged my opponent forgot they were there and he did not shoot them...

...Shame that I didn't remember they were there either. I guess they were just sitting there, on top of the black tower, watching the fight while eating popcorn.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

^ and that is why you should always use painted minis

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Can you take two of the same relic or are they unique in nature?
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

BillyN831 wrote:
Can you take two of the same relic or are they unique in nature?

The codex says that you cannot duplicate relics and cannot take more than one on the same character. Which makes sense since these are supposed to be one-of-a-kind artifacts.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

I notice Loyalists get a 'split into Combat Squads after the game begins' Stratagem. These both strike me as being to 'twenty-six Stratagems for you to use!' as a boss that requires a weekend of grinding to take down is to 'seventy hours of gameplay!'…


Well it could be very handy when a Nightlord Terminator unit wants to be, say, Kharnate for a round.

It's there. use it when it makes sense to use it. Having one MORE tool in the toolbag hardly seems a bad thing.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Jancoran wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

I notice Loyalists get a 'split into Combat Squads after the game begins' Stratagem. These both strike me as being to 'twenty-six Stratagems for you to use!' as a boss that requires a weekend of grinding to take down is to 'seventy hours of gameplay!'…


Well it could be very handy when a Nightlord Terminator unit wants to be, say, Kharnate for a round.

It's there. use it when it makes sense to use it. Having one MORE tool in the toolbag hardly seems a bad thing.

At least it's better than the Loyalist Combat Squad one because nobody is buying a full unit of anything there.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 Jancoran wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

I notice Loyalists get a 'split into Combat Squads after the game begins' Stratagem. These both strike me as being to 'twenty-six Stratagems for you to use!' as a boss that requires a weekend of grinding to take down is to 'seventy hours of gameplay!'…


Well it could be very handy when a Nightlord Terminator unit wants to be, say, Kharnate for a round.

It's there. use it when it makes sense to use it. Having one MORE tool in the toolbag hardly seems a bad thing.


The MoC the Stratagem confers seems to be permanent. Now, there's two options here:

- during list building, give your Terminators MoK and IoW: 10pts/0pow, can always re-roll charges

- take unmarked Terminators and BtDG a MoK for them: 1CP, no built-in charge re-roll so probably end up spending another CP here and there as well

I guess it leaves open the option to give them a MoS for if they find a target that wants shooting up... naw, it's still a gimmick, one with much higher external costs.

   
Made in ca
Dangerous Duet






What do you people feel like an effective build be for a unit of Noise Marines ?

 
   
Made in de
Hellacious Havoc





Hamburg

I need your help for i'm incredibly inept to build a working list;

What do you think about bikes? MSU, special Weapons or not?

Is Skarbrand worth as a Support-ish unit for CSM-Daemons & Daemon-engines? I really like the model & the +1 Attack aura which would be fun to use in combination with possessed.

And on that note, how do i run Possessed in a Renegate list? Rhino's or Footslogging?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Khornate25 wrote:
What do you people feel like an effective build be for a unit of Noise Marines ?


My base noise marine unit is just 4 sonic blasters+blastmaster. Its 111 points that produces a rather nice amount of fire and is good at sitting on objectives for cheap. If I have some points leftover I add another sonic blaster giving me a nice 6 marines aka the magic slaanesh number. Today in a game a dying squad wiped out a strike squad of GKs.

I need your help for i'm incredibly inept to build a working list;

What do you think about bikes? MSU, special Weapons or not?

Is Skarbrand worth as a Support-ish unit for CSM-Daemons & Daemon-engines? I really like the model & the +1 Attack aura which would be fun to use in combination with possessed.

And on that note, how do i run Possessed in a Renegate list? Rhino's or Footslogging?


I have been running a few small units with max special weapons for a cheap fast hit and run unit. Usually live a turn or two before my opponent figure out have dangerous they are and blows them off the board. I think bikes are decent now but are not something I would charge into an enemy.

Possessed need a ride. Also give them a apostle with the ride. Maximize that first charge.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




If you are playing Renegades you want your bikes in combat. Give them flamers and advance for a 20 inch move, flame some stuff and then charge into combat to tie up your enemy. They can be a good way of delivering a bike lord semi safely into close combat.

Possessed are probably best in a Rhino but I think it's feasible to have them footslog if you take the Changeling as well. It's probably not worth it unless you have multiple units benefiting from the Changeling aura, though.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think bikes are better as a shooting platform rather than charging them into combat, unless you can tie up some heavy support units. They aren't much better at fighting than normal CSM yet they are a lot more expensive. Even the champion only has 2 attacks. Putting a power weapon or power fist on a bike champ is very inefficient for so few attacks. And you are essentially paying a lot just for bikes as a delivery system. On the other hand, as a shooty platform, I think they have some merit. They are T5, 3+, so they are harder to kill than a typical marine, and yet they are "relatively" cheap. And they serve as a good distraction.

I would consider taking a squad of 3 with just 1 special weapon like a melta gun. This way, I wouldn't need to worry about morale, and they are still shooty (don't underestimate combi bolters!). And that one melta gun means I can do some melta damage on a target of opportunity like a vehicle or an imperial knight. And the whole unit is under 100 points. So, opponent has to decide, if he wants to shoot at the bike unit, he needs to totally kill it off to get to that one melta gun. But if he doesn't it will continue to be a thorn in its side. And if opponent actually does devote some shooting to it, that's less shooting at my own heavy support.

The only time I might consider charging them into combat, would be if I were using world eaters bikers. Because with the +1 attack, they might be more worth it in CC, charging either weak chaff, or tying up heavy support.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/25 01:26:05


 
   
Made in ca
Dangerous Duet






What use would you have for the contemptor and leviathan dreads ? Which legion, synergy, etc. ?

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Khornate25 wrote:
What use would you have for the contemptor and leviathan dreads ? Which legion, synergy, etc. ?


Alpha legion CT works well for shooty ones, keeps them alive a bit longer. EC is good for melee focused, probably outweighs WE overall.

DG would be good for mixed or shooty versions, except for the fact DG LT does not, by raw, apply to them. No clue why, could be a typo that they didn't bold helbrutes.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 Khornate25 wrote:
What use would you have for the contemptor and leviathan dreads ? Which legion, synergy, etc. ?


My Word Bearers are putting a Contemptor in a Dreadclaw with a Butcher Cannon and Soulburner Fist. It's loadout is largely determined by it being an interesting hobby project, and the delivery system is because it's the scariest thing I can put in a Dreadclaw that can't just ride in a cheaper Rhino. In practice, it's probably going to be something of a distraction carnifex, taking out a few Long Fangs and adding -2ld to a unit that's already likely to fail a morale check. Or scaring a Knight.

   
Made in gb
Fluttering Firewyrm of Tzeentch




 Khornate25 wrote:
What use would you have for the contemptor and leviathan dreads ? Which legion, synergy, etc. ?


I often run a Leviathan. I initially run double butcher cannons but the -1AP didn't work out so well. I've had much more success running 2x Gravflux bombards, which are good against everything. It's also cheaper. I play Thousand Sons, so no legion tactics to speak of.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 ochobits wrote:
So, for all of you who may still have doubts of the potential of Alpha Legion Tzeench Obliterators let me tell you what happened to me today on my Local GW store:

I deployed my Obliterators on top of a black tower in the center of the table, near The Changelling. They are still black primed. Forget the -2 to hit, they were so camuflaged my opponent forgot they were there and he did not shoot them...

...Shame that I didn't remember they were there either. I guess they were just sitting there, on top of the black tower, watching the fight while eating popcorn.


I came in second in a Sigmar tournament instead of first this last week literally because I had a squad of cultists....on a tray behind me. They were supposed to come in on turn 3 due to the mission we were playing (NOVA mission I believe), but on turn 3 during my assault phase, I said "ah crap I should have brought them on". Then on turn 4, during my shooting phase, I said "I can't believe I didn't bring them in". At the end of turn 5, when we were tallying points for objectives, I said, "WHY ARE MY CULTISTS ON MY TRAY STILL". Bringing them in on any of those turns, even the last turn, would have allowed me to score enough points to take 1st in the tournament.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Khornate25 wrote:
What do you people feel like an effective build be for a unit of Noise Marines ?


I don't pay for the blast master but it's not a bad option. Basically as many as you can cram into a rhino and you're good to go. Veterans of the long war, prescience, shoot twice and profit. Have lord nearby for extra profit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/25 17:36:55


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

I've got a survival game coming up - forget the named the mission, but the gist is play five turns against twice as much power as you, win if there's a survivor. I want something that can mess up fenrisian wolves and genestealers when they inevitably get stuck in. I've got Flamers of Tzeentch, Hellforged Predator covered in flame weapons, and Raptors that could have three Flamers. They're all around the same power level, not sure which way to go...

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 lindsay40k wrote:
I've got a survival game coming up - forget the named the mission, but the gist is play five turns against twice as much power as you, win if there's a survivor. I want something that can mess up fenrisian wolves and genestealers when they inevitably get stuck in. I've got Flamers of Tzeentch, Hellforged Predator covered in flame weapons, and Raptors that could have three Flamers. They're all around the same power level, not sure which way to go...



Huh, interesting. Haven't played a game like that.

You say you have "a game" coming up, but I assume you mean multiple games, seeing as your opponent seems to be both tyranid and space wolves haha. How come you're always the defender?

I wouldn't pick raptors on their own, too fragile. Though so are flamers of tzeentch really. And neither of them will help much against wolves or genestealers. If they get an overwatch shot, then they'll do a bunch of wounds, but they'll only get overwatch if the enemy charge from less than 8" away. I don't know my tyranid codex very well, but I'd be surprised if they didnt have a way to get decent charges from that far and avoid all your flamers.

Even if they don't, the 3 flamers in a raptor squad will only, on average, kill 3 genestealers before they attack you.
Same with the tzeentch flamer squad, as the bonus -1AP is irrelevent against genestealers.

So you kill 3 of their genestealers, and then the other 17 of them (I'd assume they're using big units for the attacks bonus) is going to attack you for... 68 attacks? So whatever they attack, is going to die.

The predator might survive a round of melee, but it also costs way more than the raptors or the flamers, even in power levels. So you'll have less stuff in the rest of your army. And the predator would not survive two rounds of combat.



What would I do? If I was playing a defensive army, I wouldn't be spending a lot of points on flamer units and waiting for something as potentially nasty as genestealers to get within 8" of me so I could actually hurt them. I'd load up on long range anti-horde, and try and kill them before they even got anywhere near me.

Guessing by hellforged predator you don't mind forgeworld units, so Rapier battery quad heavy bolters are pretty nasty. Loads of dakka.

I'd even say a standard predator with heavy bolters and a havoc launcher will kill a lot more enemy during a game, as it can kill things every turn instead of just on the turn before it is charged.
Heavy bolter havocs would also probably do more good than the raptors or flamers.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

^ my regular opponents are Wolves and Tyranids, we usually have a free for all but we're going to try some 2v1 gauntlets. I'll be attacking a third of the time

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 Khornate25 wrote:
What do you people feel like an effective build be for a unit of Noise Marines ?


All sonic blasters. I don't ever bother even fiddling with anything more than that.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I'm not sure why the hate for the Blastmaster, honestly. It's kind of like a weaker Missile Launcher. Paired with the Slaanesh stratagem, Prescience, and/or Veterans of the Long War, they can do some serious work. I'm figuring on running 10 Noise Marines with 8 Sonic Blasters and 2 Blastmasters, possibly with an Icon of Excess for when the unit ends up in close combat (since the Icon is cheap). I'm thinking I'll infiltrate the unit with the Alpha Legion stratagem, getting them into a good position to make some, ahem, Noise!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in fr
Frightnening Fiend of Slaanesh





France

Here are the opinions on Chaos units, resumed in one word/sentence, what are your thought about it :

HQ :
- Daemon Prince : Must have
- Lord : Good
- Sorcerer : Fuc**ng good
- Dark Apostle : Optionnal (only if lots of cultist)
- Warpsmith ??

Troops :
- Chaos space marine : Meh..
- Cultist : Best CSM troops (exept if you are EC or WE)
- NM & Berzeker : Best trops in 8th edition ?

Elit :
- Terminators : Eventually good with combi weapon and mark of Slaanesh
- Chosen : Overcosted
- Possessed : Eventually if you cant take Berzeker
- Helbrute : Best Elite slot
- Mutilator : Trash tier

Rhino : Must have if you got some infantry without deep strike more valuable than cultist (Possessed, Bezeker, Noise etc...)

Fast attack :
- Bikers ?
- Raptors : Bad ?
- Warp talon : Bad
- Spawn : Best fast attack in chaos ?

Heldrake : Meh ?

Support :
- Land Raider : Good ?
- Predator : Best CSM support unit ?
- Havocs : Second best CSM support unit if you can take Slaanesh mark ?
- Obliterators : Good now they are Assault4 ?
- Vindicator : Bad ?
- Forgefiend ? Maulerfiend ?
- Defiler ?

Profil pic by Qsy draw a lot 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think warp talons have some utility if you can master comboing them. But not confident enough in that opinion to buy any and test them.

Idea would be to deep strike em, in, warptime em, and multi charge to lock down as many units as possible without overwatch.
Then try and stack buffs to cause real damage, whilst clearing the way for the rest of your army to get in unapposed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 10:47:26


DFTT 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





I tried out the tactic of deep strike in warp talons plus warptime them, and then charge after that. It was mean!
   
 
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