Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Games Workshop makes more money with their current SM product line minus Primaris than Warhawk, CB, Privateer Press, Warlord and Mantic with all their product combined and people think they will stop offering these today? What financial idiot would do this? They sell these until they stop creating revenue. And that will take a while.

mongoosecat200 wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
So the first week of Konor you get bonuses for start collecting stuff. Second week you get bonuses for Elite stuff, and conveniently all the Primaris elite units are coming out this week. Third week of Konor is a tank bonus, should we expect the Repulser to be released next weekend?

From what I understand it'll be repulsor, chaplain and apothecary

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/23/faith-fury-and-firepower-space-marines-preview-july23gw-homepage-post-1/

We've already got the Librarian for the week four theme, Inceptors and maybe that mystery flier for the week five fast attack/flier theme?

MaxT wrote:
GW release new models, get over it.

You don't get it at all, do you?

MaxT wrote:
Don't see many peeps raging about how beaky marines are no longer produced.

But they do. Mk.VI Marines appear in most Marine kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

MaxT wrote:
GW release new models, get over it.

You don't get it at all, do you?

MaxT wrote:
Don't see many peeps raging about how beaky marines are no longer produced.

But they do. Mk.VI Marines appear in most Marine kits.

Not in scale with RTB01 Marines they don't.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So GW doesn't want to release rules for models they no longer make (putting them only in the Index). But riddle me this, why the heck is the wrist-mounted grenade launcher on the list even though they don't make the model for it anymore?

The obvious answer is that it was an oversight, but still.

In french I assumed that was the aux grenade launcher.

I'm so happy the Apothecary is getting his helmet on. It's nice to have that option, since I'd always go for it. This makes me wonder then if the Chaplain has an unhelmeted version.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Oh my god, A Primaris Codex so soon, are you serious?
Talk about people confirming their own bias... Theres many actual and confirmed things GW has do to critique them. Why is people so willing to invent and assume the worst?

By the end of the year - almost certainaly.

Want to put money on it not happening

tell ya what if it Happens I'll buy you the codex. if it doesn't happen? I'll accept simply a post from you on, we'll say Christmas, where you admit you are in fact WRONG, and that GW isn't malevelontly plotting to phase out all standard space marines before the end of 8th edition.... ohh and you'll do it In Rhyme.

I look forward to your christmas post

Maybe I am wrong - If I am certainly attempt the ryme but nothing to do with phasing out Small marines (or not) - different Discussuion Look forward to the early Christmas present

Having seen them produce so many books featuring the Stormcast I just can't see them not collectiing all the various Primairs Marine stuff in a single Primairs Codex towards the end of the year - the argument about how long they keep making stuff for Small marines is irrelvant to that - I can't see them not making more Primaris dedicated transports, esepcially drop pod equivalents and aircraft, add in the Flavour units for the snowflake Chapters and they will "need" a Codex to have it all.

I recall someone saying there were Primaris specific airfcraft in the recent novel so good chance GW or FW will create.

So do we have a full list of the stratagems anywhere? I know some stratagem pages leaked earlier this week but it didn't look like the full list.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Games Workshop makes more money with their current SM product line minus Primaris than Warhawk, CB, Privateer Press, Warlord and Mantic with all their product combined and people think they will stop offering these today? What financial idiot would do this? They sell these until they stop creating revenue. And that will take a while.

"People" think nothing of the kind, but the Positivity Police aren't capable of honestly arguing the point so they make up ludicrous strawmen positions("GW will destroy all Space Marine kits!", "GW will discontinue Space Marines within literally weeks!", "Primaris are a Satanic plot yoo guise!!!11") to argue against instead.

What "people" have said is that GW clearly intend for Primaris to replace regular Marines going forward, that the regular Marine line will likely see minimal if any development, and the more cynical amongst us expect they'll go Direct Only sooner rather than later. But hey, creating a massive stooshie based on a hyperbolic misrepresentation of someone's view is much more "entertaining" to some folk than simple disagreement over the exact timescale of regular Marines' decommissioning, which is what this whole nonsense really amounts to.

MaxT wrote:

Not in scale with RTB01 Marines they don't.

2nd edition grill face marines didn't get a different statline/incompatible rules nor get described as clearly superior in the fluff. Your comparison is apples to bowling balls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
"People" think nothing of the kind, but the Positivity Police aren't capable of honestly arguing the point so they make up ludicrous strawmen positions("GW will destroy all Space Marine kits!", "GW will discontinue Space Marines within literally weeks!", "Primaris are a Satanic plot yoo guise!!!11") to argue against instead.

What "people" have said is that GW clearly intend for Primaris to replace regular Marines going forward, that the regular Marine line will likely see minimal if any development, and the more cynical amongst us expect they'll go Direct Only sooner rather than later. But hey, creating a massive stooshie based on a hyperbolic misrepresentation of someone's view is much more "entertaining" to some folk than simple disagreement over the exact timescale of regular Marines' decommissioning, which is what this whole nonsense really amounts to.

It's like spitting into the wind and these are likely the same people (or at a minimum the same type of people) who would swear that sigmarines weren't at all the fantasy equivalent nor inspired by space marines despite the evidence in front of them.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Games Workshop makes more money with their current SM product line minus Primaris than Warhawk, CB, Privateer Press, Warlord and Mantic with all their product combined and people think they will stop offering these today? What financial idiot would do this? They sell these until they stop creating revenue. And that will take a while.

"People" think nothing of the kind, but the Positivity Police aren't capable of honestly arguing the point so they make up ludicrous strawmen positions("GW will destroy all Space Marine kits!", "GW will discontinue Space Marines within literally weeks!", "Primaris are a Satanic plot yoo guise!!!11") to argue against instead.

What "people" have said is that GW clearly intend for Primaris to replace regular Marines going forward, that the regular Marine line will likely see minimal if any development, and the more cynical amongst us expect they'll go Direct Only sooner rather than later. But hey, creating a massive stooshie based on a hyperbolic misrepresentation of someone's view is much more "entertaining" to some folk than simple disagreement over the exact timescale of regular Marines' decommissioning, which is what this whole nonsense really amounts to.

For me its not even that the small marines go out of production, or even that they get new development, it is that the nu marines will have better rules/benefit per point that the old marines. It means I have to upgrade the majority of my army if I want to stay competitive. The switch of the older metal marines to the newer (small) marine plastics did not cause this problem as the rules for both models stayed the same so you could use either or both in the same army and have zero impact.

I have recently spent a lot of time and money moving my main marines across to FW resin and making sure they are painted to a good standard. My idea was that I could use the same models in both 30k and 40k at a competitive level, now I am not able to do so. I should caveat this as Primaris may turn out to be worse than normal marines, however this is unlikely, and if it does happen I would expect the new improved GW to fix their rules on the fly, as they have already shown in 8th that they are more than happy to do now.

Obviously with every new codex (bar SOB, sob) there are new models, this I expect, but what I do not expect is having to replace the majority of my (playable) army when the new codex launches.

Except the only good things from primaris so far are hellblastera, aggressors and the repulsor, and maybe the price dropped jump primaris marines.

 Looky Likey wrote:
For me its not even that the small marines go out of production, or even that they get new development, it is that the nu marines will have better rules/benefit per point that the old marines. It means I have to upgrade the majority of my army if I want to stay competitive. The switch of the older metal marines to the newer (small) marine plastics did not cause this problem as the rules for both models stayed the same so you could use either or both in the same army and have zero impact.

I have recently spent a lot of time and money moving my main marines across to FW resin and making sure they are painted to a good standard. My idea was that I could use the same models in both 30k and 40k at a competitive level, now I am not able to do so. I should caveat this as Primaris may turn out to be worse than normal marines, however this is unlikely, and if it does happen I would expect the new improved GW to fix their rules on the fly, as they have already shown in 8th that they are more than happy to do now.

Obviously with every new codex (bar SOB, sob) there are new models, this I expect, but what I do not expect is having to replace the majority of my (playable) army when the new codex launches.

Well, if you're afraid the Primaris marines will have better rules/benefit per point, then you can rest easy - they universally do not. So no, you don't have to upgrade anything (outside of what you might have planned due to the edition change). Right now you are 100% able to continue your army plan for both 30k and 40k for the length of this active codex, which may be all of 8th. Hope to see some pics of them soon!

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Games Workshop makes more money with their current SM product line minus Primaris than Warhawk, CB, Privateer Press, Warlord and Mantic with all their product combined and people think they will stop offering these today? What financial idiot would do this? They sell these until they stop creating revenue. And that will take a while.

"People" think nothing of the kind, but the Positivity Police aren't capable of honestly arguing the point so they make up ludicrous strawmen positions("GW will destroy all Space Marine kits!", "GW will discontinue Space Marines within literally weeks!", "Primaris are a Satanic plot yoo guise!!!11") to argue against instead.

What "people" have said is that GW clearly intend for Primaris to replace regular Marines going forward, that the regular Marine line will likely see minimal if any development, and the more cynical amongst us expect they'll go Direct Only sooner rather than later. But hey, creating a massive stooshie based on a hyperbolic misrepresentation of someone's view is much more "entertaining" to some folk than simple disagreement over the exact timescale of regular Marines' decommissioning, which is what this whole nonsense really amounts to.

For me its not even that the small marines go out of production, or even that they get new development, it is that the nu marines will have better rules/benefit per point that the old marines. It means I have to upgrade the majority of my army if I want to stay competitive. The switch of the older metal marines to the newer (small) marine plastics did not cause this problem as the rules for both models stayed the same so you could use either or both in the same army and have zero impact.

I have recently spent a lot of time and money moving my main marines across to FW resin and making sure they are painted to a good standard. My idea was that I could use the same models in both 30k and 40k at a competitive level, now I am not able to do so. I should caveat this as Primaris may turn out to be worse than normal marines, however this is unlikely, and if it does happen I would expect the new improved GW to fix their rules on the fly, as they have already shown in 8th that they are more than happy to do now.

Obviously with every new codex (bar SOB, sob) there are new models, this I expect, but what I do not expect is having to replace the majority of my (playable) army when the new codex launches.

You can definitely play with non Primaris marines competitively. As written right now (there is only so much that can be judged from rules written rather than played), Primaris marines are clearly not superior.

Tactical marines have clear advantages and disadvantages relative to Intercessors.

Inceptors are better shooters than Assault marines but less capable in CC. Bikes are also better in CC.

Aggressors are lesser versions of Centurions (either Assault or Dakka-Devastators). Cheaper and more mobile, but less deadly.

Helblasters are something different, but Devastators can do their job pretty well. Plus they can do it better vs. tanks.

The Redemptor is more long lasting but degrades, is more expensive and has less options than regular dreadnoughts.

Primaris marines are less mobile, have far less anti-tank and overall lower amounts of special/heavy weaponry and are lacking in close combat options. I think GW have done a great job in making them not superior.

Another Inceptor pic. It looks like the helmets can be built with the visor up or down.

Those Inceptors look lovely with the blast/drop shields down!

I've heard that some things, such as the generic stratagems, work based off the Astartes keyword rather than if you're a codex chapter, so Space Wolves ect could use them. Is this true or something pulled out of someone's butt?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So GW doesn't want to release rules for models they no longer make (putting them only in the Index). But riddle me this, why the heck is the wrist-mounted grenade launcher on the list even though they don't make the model for it anymore?

The obvious answer is that it was an oversight, but still.

Pretty sure its for that one limited edition plastic captain that had one.

 Desubot wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So GW doesn't want to release rules for models they no longer make (putting them only in the Index). But riddle me this, why the heck is the wrist-mounted grenade launcher on the list even though they don't make the model for it anymore?

The obvious answer is that it was an oversight, but still.

Pretty sure its for that one limited edition plastic captain that had one.

I know where it is from. I just find it funny that they take out options a good portion of SM players have (bike characters, different options for Dreadnoughts, etc), but leave the incredibly limited Terminator Captain with an auxilary grenade launcher in.

No options were removed.
They are just collected in a different book.
GW doesn't want new players from knowing that there are additional options, which are not readily assembled from existing kits. Which is a good move honestly. For all of us old generation players who got used to making our own models, we still can play them and have the rules for it.

All the stuff is still in the game. Part of it just happens to no longer be in plain sight.

Just got 2 Redemptors on pre order. My plan is to run a chapter master in gravis armor in between them on the board, always move them up with the captain and they will hit with the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling cannon on 4+ re rolls, and hopefully get them into CC so they can smash some juicy targets. 36 str 5 ap-1 shots that re roll to hit? yes please. FOR THE EMPEROR!

Spoletta wrote:
No options were removed.
They are just collected in a different book.
GW doesn't want new players from knowing that there are additional options, which are not readily assembled from existing kits. Which is a good move honestly. For all of us old generation players who got used to making our own models, we still can play them and have the rules for it.

All the stuff is still in the game. Part of it just happens to no longer be in plain sight.

It isn't a good move. Newer players need to be encouraged to fiddle with their models.

Newer players can still be encouraged by the playgroup they're involved with, but don't need to have every possible option flung in there face.
Is it an inconvenience to 'vet's'? Yes. Does a new player need to be overloaded with options that aren't available in the current kits? No.
Doesn't seem like that big a problem personally.

Its not unreasonable that GW wants to phase out having rules for options they don't produce, even if those options previously existed. HOWEVER, the way they are going about that is less than stellar. A better route would have been to include those options on a seperate 'legacy equipment' page in this codex and waiting until the next one to remove them outright. It would still kinda suck but would be a reasonable way of going about it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Its not unreasonable that GW wants to phase out having rules for options they don't produce, even if those options previously existed. HOWEVER, the way they are going about that is less than stellar. A better route would have been to include those options on a seperate 'legacy equipment' page in this codex and waiting until the next one to remove them outright. It would still kinda suck but would be a reasonable way of going about it.

Thats just extra pages in the book when you could just say refer to the index for legacy options. the newest of players wont care as they probably dont know what any of those are while old players already got the index.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
No options were removed.
They are just collected in a different book.
GW doesn't want new players from knowing that there are additional options, which are not readily assembled from existing kits. Which is a good move honestly. For all of us old generation players who got used to making our own models, we still can play them and have the rules for it.

All the stuff is still in the game. Part of it just happens to no longer be in plain sight.

It isn't a good move. Newer players need to be encouraged to fiddle with their models.

Especially when they're going to develop this ideal that if it's not what's in the kit, then it's just wrong.. I've already encountered that to a degree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Its not unreasonable that GW wants to phase out having rules for options they don't produce, even if those options previously existed. HOWEVER, the way they are going about that is less than stellar. A better route would have been to include those options on a seperate 'legacy equipment' page in this codex and waiting until the next one to remove them outright. It would still kinda suck but would be a reasonable way of going about it.

TBH, I think it's a holding action on GWs part. I think they don't know what kits they are going to include options with and what they want to package together etc.. They're making really big changes and Space Marines have kinda had it their own way for so long that the divergent path they've taken requires observation of us (from GW) and for them to make up their mind from a business and continuity standpoint how exactly they want to proceed. I think that it's a crappy option that they've selected but in hindsight, given their available decisions on how to approach this, they've made the right call. They're effectively putting a pin in it while they get their gak together... which it is not presently.

 Desubot wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Its not unreasonable that GW wants to phase out having rules for options they don't produce, even if those options previously existed. HOWEVER, the way they are going about that is less than stellar. A better route would have been to include those options on a seperate 'legacy equipment' page in this codex and waiting until the next one to remove them outright. It would still kinda suck but would be a reasonable way of going about it.

Thats just extra pages in the book when you could just say refer to the index for legacy options. the newest of players wont care as they probably dont know what any of those are while old players already got the index.

It would be one extra page that for many would eliminate the need to carry a whole book around.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Its not unreasonable that GW wants to phase out having rules for options they don't produce, even if those options previously existed. HOWEVER, the way they are going about that is less than stellar. A better route would have been to include those options on a seperate 'legacy equipment' page in this codex and waiting until the next one to remove them outright. It would still kinda suck but would be a reasonable way of going about it.

Thats just extra pages in the book when you could just say refer to the index for legacy options. the newest of players wont care as they probably dont know what any of those are while old players already got the index.

It would be one extra page that for many would eliminate the need to carry a whole book around.

An extra page is a cost. a cost that adds up when printing quite a lot of books.
and it would be like 6-7 pages equipment and unit data sheets that got pulled like the exclusive rhino and landraider (man i want that box)

thats just how business works.

Im not suggesting all the old dataslates be included, just the legacy options for units still in the book. Just a list of the option and the point cost transplanted from the index.

But at what point do you then remove these legacy items? At some point someone is going to have to do that and someone is going to be unhappy about it. You have a choice: do it now or do it next year/2 years/*insert appropriate date*.

In any case you're still going to annoy someone and this is probably a decision that was made when 8th was being playtested. I think it's the right call going forward, but you still have the options for the legacy gear even if it's not taking up 3-10 pages of extra space that means nothing for anyone other than veteran players.