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Thanks Kan - much appreciated!

According to Koni, the updated list and Army update should be dropping tomorrow morning/afternoon (Spanish time).

 Ronin_eX wrote:
According to Koni, the updated list and Army update should be dropping tomorrow morning/afternoon (Spanish time).

I saw it was supposed to be out today, but there was some delay.

PROFILES ARE UP!!!



Biggest profile update since the Uprising.

Very disappointed by the Orc "specialty" profiles for VIRD.

It addresses issues present with Orcs in NCA and SAA, but of course it's Sectorial specific.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Very disappointed by the Orc "specialty" profiles for VIRD.

It addresses issues present with Orcs in NCA and SAA, but of course it's Sectorial specific.

Other than fireteam options & multi-terrain (not a big deal) what's the difference?
You're paying a couple extra points on the varuna profiles for terrain abilities you wont be using all that often.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobbaFett wrote:
PROFILES ARE UP!!!



Biggest profile update since the Uprising.

I thought IA was officially live with this update?
Isnt it in 3rd offensive?
The new profiles are available in vanilla Yu Jing.
Guess we have to wait and see when it comes online...

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Very disappointed by the Orc "specialty" profiles for VIRD.

It addresses issues present with Orcs in NCA and SAA, but of course it's Sectorial specific.

Other than fireteam options & multi-terrain (not a big deal) what's the difference?
You're paying a couple extra points on the varuna profiles for terrain abilities you wont be using all that often.

Seriously?

AVA5 for one thing.
Special Fireteam: Core with 3 Fusiliers and 2 Orcs(Varuna)--and Wildcard on Patsy Garnet and Kamau.
Multi-Terrain Jungle and Aquatic might not seem like a huge deal to you, but actually read their profiles. There's also Stealth present.



They get all of those benefits for a single point difference.

And hit Ctrl+F5 if you can't see the Invincible Army. You need to force a refresh.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:


I thought IA was officially live with this update?
Isnt it in 3rd offensive?
The new profiles are available in vanilla Yu Jing.
Guess we have to wait and see when it comes online...

Invincible Army is on my screen, Have you tried Crtl+F5?
It has to show up at some point.

At long last... a use for Zhanshis.

AVA 4 on Yan Huos. So I need to paint another two.

Really liking the look of IA, just neeed to get my head around the force list.

I'm in two minds about MO. Father Knights definately more usable now with natural Duo, although the FO lost Nimbus Grenades for some reason, plus the Seraph has a HMG profile and the Spitfire profile's Aux Bot has Superjump too now (boingy boingu boingy).

But no LI LT option, Spec OSs still aren't linkable, and while they got some buffs the reson to take Teutons over other Knights remins "I just like them, leave me alone".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Very disappointed by the Orc "specialty" profiles for VIRD.

It addresses issues present with Orcs in NCA and SAA, but of course it's Sectorial specific.

Other than fireteam options & multi-terrain (not a big deal) what's the difference?
You're paying a couple extra points on the varuna profiles for terrain abilities you wont be using all that often.

Seriously?

AVA5 for one thing.
Special Fireteam: Core with 3 Fusiliers and 2 Orcs(Varuna)--and Wildcard on Patsy Garnet and Kamau.
Multi-Terrain Jungle and Aquatic might not seem like a huge deal to you, but actually read their profiles. There's also Stealth present.

Spoiler:

REQUIREMENTS

The user of this Special Skill must be in his Active Turn.

EFFECTS

Allows the user to make Cautious Movements inside the Zone of Control of an enemy.
A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them.
However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.
If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state.

They get all of those benefits for a single point difference.

And hit Ctrl+F5 if you can't see the Invincible Army. You need to force a refresh.

The Varuna Orcs are so juicy!

I am liking the idea of a Paramedic Knight of Montesa. Who doesn't like a paramedic with 8-4 MOV, has armor 4, CH: Mimetism and religious troop?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Very disappointed by the Orc "specialty" profiles for VIRD.

It addresses issues present with Orcs in NCA and SAA, but of course it's Sectorial specific.

Other than fireteam options & multi-terrain (not a big deal) what's the difference?
You're paying a couple extra points on the varuna profiles for terrain abilities you wont be using all that often.

Seriously?

AVA5 for one thing.
Special Fireteam: Core with 3 Fusiliers and 2 Orcs(Varuna)--and Wildcard on Patsy Garnet and Kamau.
Multi-Terrain Jungle and Aquatic might not seem like a huge deal to you, but actually read their profiles. There's also Stealth present.

Spoiler:

REQUIREMENTS

The user of this Special Skill must be in his Active Turn.

EFFECTS

Allows the user to make Cautious Movements inside the Zone of Control of an enemy.
A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them.
However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.
If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state.

They get all of those benefits for a single point difference.

And hit Ctrl+F5 if you can't see the Invincible Army. You need to force a refresh.

Obviously they have fireteam options to synergize with the sectorial and higher AVA.
They’re the signature unit for Varuna I would expect them to have better options in that sectorial. Heck, Orcs are the only standard HI choice for all of Varuna.
Nothing to get bent out of shape over for NCA & SAA folks; they already have plenty of other interesting combinations among their HI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:


I thought IA was officially live with this update?
Isnt it in 3rd offensive?
The new profiles are available in vanilla Yu Jing.
Guess we have to wait and see when it comes online...

Invincible Army is on my screen, Have you tried Crtl+F5?
It has to show up at some point.

It’s working now.
I was at work earlier and only had a few minutes to take a peek.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 .Mikes. wrote:
AVA 4 on Yan Huos. So I need to paint another two.

Really liking the look of IA, just neeed to get my head around the force list.

I'm in two minds about MO. Father Knights definately more usable now with natural Duo, although the FO lost Nimbus Grenades for some reason, plus the Seraph has a HMG profile and the Spitfire profile's Aux Bot has Superjump too now (boingy boingu boingy).

But no LI LT option, Spec OSs still aren't linkable, and while they got some buffs the reson to take Teutons over other Knights remins "I just like them, leave me alone".

It’s really a shame that the Seraph has such a lame pose; it’s a great model.
O-yoroi has a similarly baffling pose.

I like the Seraph pose, like it's midway through blocking on overhead swing from another Tag. I appreocate I may be in the minority there.

So can't wait to try the HMG profile.

Also, apparently spec OSs *may* be linkable and Army hasn't updated yet. We'll see.

We await clarification for OS linkability.

I expected more hacking defenses for IA. Even HI heavy PanO sectorials dont rely on their HI this much.
Between hackers and many new profiles getting EM weapons, IA is going to have a hard time keeping their guys from becoming a petrified forest.
It probably evens out in the end... even if its a scary thought bringing that many hackable models.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I expected more hacking defenses for IA. Even HI heavy PanO sectorials dont rely on their HI this much.
Between hackers and many new profiles getting EM weapons, IA is going to have a hard time keeping their guys from becoming a petrified forest.
It probably evens out in the end... even if its a scary thought bringing that many hackable models.

We do have several offensive hackers though, including Hac Tao with TO Camo and KHD. I think the intention is full offense, and overwhelming your opponent.

Bring two engineers though.

There's also Terracotta Soldiers with Tinbots.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's also Terracotta Soldiers with Tinbots.

Yeah, Deflector L2. Also available on Tai Sheng, the terracotta leader.

Really excited to see a box set come out for Kuangshi, my favourite models in the game.

 Mastiff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's also Terracotta Soldiers with Tinbots.

Yeah, Deflector L2. Also available on Tai Sheng, the terracotta leader.

Really excited to see a box set come out for Kuangshi, my favourite models in the game.

There already is a Kuang Shi box?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's also Terracotta Soldiers with Tinbots.

Yeah, Deflector L2. Also available on Tai Sheng, the terracotta leader.

Really excited to see a box set come out for Kuangshi, my favourite models in the game.

There already is a Kuang Shi box?

Mebbe he meant Zuyong? The HMG guy has been very lonely for some time now.
Gotta be that or Shang Ji. The old one is still a great model even tho he’s tiny and his gun is HUGE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mastiff wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I expected more hacking defenses for IA. Even HI heavy PanO sectorials dont rely on their HI this much.
Between hackers and many new profiles getting EM weapons, IA is going to have a hard time keeping their guys from becoming a petrified forest.
It probably evens out in the end... even if its a scary thought bringing that many hackable models.

We do have several offensive hackers though, including Hac Tao with TO Camo and KHD. I think the intention is full offense, and overwhelming your opponent.

Bring two engineers though.

They can definitely bring the pain. It will be nice to play Yu Jing without the CC tax on so many units that rarely get that close.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note, a new Hac Tao ML would be really nice. They could double it up with BS or multi rifle in a blister.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:
I expected more hacking defenses for IA. Even HI heavy PanO sectorials dont rely on their HI this much.
Between hackers and many new profiles getting EM weapons, IA is going to have a hard time keeping their guys from becoming a petrified forest.
It probably evens out in the end... even if its a scary thought bringing that many hackable models.

In general, the stuff that is vulnerable is able to sit behind a L2 Deflector and a KHD Haidao. The stuff that doesn't get that luxury is either resilient enough to hacking that it won't give much of a care as a direct threat, or it will prove to be too vulnerable and get left off to the side. I think with a Haidao around, things like the Zencha, Hulang, Mowang, and Hac Tao will probably be fine due to a combo of marker states, stealth, and good BTS. The Liu Xing is really the weak link here since it isn't really rocking any special protection, and its skillset wants you to drop in to the viper's den. But even then, I think Explode LX is genrally considered to be a red herring on them at this point, so I expect most folks to just run them from mid-field as a barebones AD trooper if they run 'em at all.

Overall though, the protection afforded to links is pretty strong thanks to a combo of good Deflector profiles that you actively want in your links alongside a cheap, relatively tough stripped-down HI KHD.

And if you really need to, the Daoying LT can use its lieutenant order to sprinkle Fairy Dust and then use its second lieutenant order to re-camo. If you're running a list without NCO then this is a pretty solid strat (especially if you're hiding a Haidao CoC somewhere).

They basically hit all the points I'd want to see in an HI defensive suite and they can mix and match strats pretty easily, especially that 26 point KHD Haidao. I can't see not including those in most of my Zuyong links just because they're so flexible (hell, even on their own they're basically a budget Vet Kazak that can go in to a marker state, so they even have uses in vanilla).

What’s interesting is the amount of new 1 wound+NWI heavy infantry.

It is an interesting and bold design decision that allowed a plethora of highly skilled and equipped HI to exist in point costs that make a HI or mostly HI list playable, at least in theory.

CB has stated that they eagerly wait the feedback from actual playing experience and data from Infinity army and actual tournaments about this design.

On the discussion I am intrigued on how many make Daoying hacker their LT I always select the multi sniper LT.

 Grey Templar wrote:
What’s interesting is the amount of new 1 wound+NWI heavy infantry.

I've gotten used to it, but because so much of the list was created at the beginning of N3, you get this weird split between new and old units. The only new "traditional" HI was the Mowang, everything else has a suit stripped down to even less than what the Zuyong has, and the Zuyong are supposed to be the most cut-down of them all.

So you end up with this weird juxtaposition of the elite specialists of the Invincible Army wearing these cheap knock-off suits while the mainline HI are running full-on powered armour. I mean, you get used to it... but you can't help but wonder why the Zuyong didn't get the slimmed down redesign like the Haidao did. If nothing else, flipping the script would have freed them up to possibly make more of the elite IA stuff 2-wounders so that you had a clearer divide between the mass-production suits and the more specialized ones.

I think it also would have helped if some of the stats had been unified. The Zencha, Liu Xing, Haidao, and Hulang are all rocking different ARM/BTS and immunity combos. Given that militaries tend to like redundancy, it seems weird that all the specialist regiments would be rocking different suits instead of similar variants of the same.

It's mostly a design and aesthetics thing, but it definitely takes me out of it when building lists because sometimes (like the Haidao) it feels really gamey. I look at the stripped-down stats and it doesn't look like the stats were designed to fit the unit, but rather a unit was created to fill out the stats and hit a particular point cost. Which only makes no redesign on things like the Zuyong feel weirder. Hell, the Haidao looks like a post I made years back discussing avenues to make the Zuyong more like a massed line trooper while still retaining HI features.

If nothing else, it feels like a great many of 2nd Edition's "light" HI designs (back when 4-4 MOV was novel on HI) could move to this stripped down form... but then, I don't think Riot Grrrls need more help being cheap either.

I think the only unit it still feels kind of egregious on is the Zencha, because it has no Shock Immunity or Bio-Immunity, so despite the ARM, it goes down like any NWI LI unit to a shock attack, which feels wrong when you're still hackable. Part of me kind of wishes they had just made it a proper Skirmisher with a mechanical body like the Daoying to explain the NWI on it. Because it doesn't really gain anything from being HI and doesn't appear to be getting a discount for being hackable and vulnerable to E/M attack. But at least the combo of an SMG and marker state make the FO still good despite the misgivings I have with its actual design.

AT STATE EMPIRE ARMY R&D LAB

The Brass: So what do you have for my new, glorious Invincible Army?
Engineer: So this is our new Zuyong suit. We've streamlined the old bird-beak a bit for faster production. Used less robust actuators with a bit faster response time, and cut some of the armour down to be replaced with ballistic cloth coverings. Functions 99% as well as our traditional suits but comes in at half the cost. We can churn these out no problem.
The Brass: Excellent, but what about the specialist regiments?
Engineer: Oh the Shang Ji uses a bunch of designer parts...
The Brass: Good, and that makes it more effective?
Engineer: Well, it certainly makes it look nice!
The Brass: How much does it cost?
Engineer: Let me show you over to the Mowang! We yoinked this from Japanese R&D, slapped a mimetic coating on and armed it to the teeth!
The Brass: Yes, yes that sounds great but the Shan-
Engineer: Alright, next we've got an early production model of the Yan Huo suit! It has built-in stabilizers that allow it to carry TAG-scale weapons. Pretty neat huh?
The Brass: Yes, I suppose. What about the designs for the newest regiments? The Zencha?
*Engineer looks nervous*
Engineer: Uh, yeah, this way sir.
The Brass: Is it behind this mannequin dressed in a garbage bag?
Engineer: Oh no, that's the "enhanced" camo system. This is the Zencha's suit!
The Brass: Did you just make air quotes?
Engineer: You see, by wrapping duct-tape and garbage bags around a cheap knock-off Ariadna exo-frame, we've been able to produce enough of these babies to fill the warehouse!
The Brass: But, they're a small, elite group. We don't need that many.
*Engineer looks concerned*
Engineer: Well, let's show you to the next one. We've formulated this specifically for the new Haidao group.
*leads inspector over to a mannequin dressed in cardboard boxes with the words "armor" scrawled on them and beams widely*

In this tale I imagine Bostria is the engineer and the Brass is YJ players

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Mastiff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's also Terracotta Soldiers with Tinbots.

Yeah, Deflector L2. Also available on Tai Sheng, the terracotta leader.

Really excited to see a box set come out for Kuangshi, my favourite models in the game.

There already is a Kuang Shi box?

Bladerunner’s right, I meant “Zuyong”. I get the names mixed up

Currently there is a second Zuyong, from the Red Veil box. Great pose too.

We'll definately see a Zuyong box. And I agree, the two recent Zuyong models are awesome.

 .Mikes. wrote:
We'll definately see a Zuyong box. And I agree, the two recent Zuyong models are awesome.

Considering Sun Tze has a similar suit of armor to Zuyongs, I REALLY expected him to be in this list so he could link with them.
Gotta say I’m disappointed he isn’t included in this sectorial.

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
We'll definately see a Zuyong box. And I agree, the two recent Zuyong models are awesome.

Considering Sun Tze has a similar suit of armor to Zuyongs, I REALLY expected him to be in this list so he could link with them.
Gotta say I’m disappointed he isn’t included in this sectorial.

It is a very strange choice not to include him. What sectorial would he possibly go in if not IA?

Not including Joan in Military Orders would be just as strange.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
We'll definately see a Zuyong box. And I agree, the two recent Zuyong models are awesome.

Considering Sun Tze has a similar suit of armor to Zuyongs, I REALLY expected him to be in this list so he could link with them.
Gotta say I’m disappointed he isn’t included in this sectorial.

It is a very strange choice not to include him. What sectorial would he possibly go in if not IA?

Not including Joan in Military Orders would be just as strange.

He’s already in Imperial Service.