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So I've recently been having some fun with Orks and decided to try out a deathstar unit:

5 Meganobz
1 Ghazghkull Thraka
1 Mad Dok Grotsnik
1 Battlewagon

So I'm happily laying waste to units here and there, when an interesting situation arises. I win a combat, without decimating my opponent, and he fails his morale check. So he starts to roll for sweeping advance, and I tell him that Meganobz can't sweeping advance. He asks me if I'm sure, and we decided to check. I check the Slow & Purposeful rule and do not see anything about it. I check the Sweeping Advance section and don't see anything about it. I check the description for Meganobz and for Mega-armor and still can't find anything.

Have I just missed this somehow in the heat of the moment, or can Meganobz actually sweeping advance?

Valdrad

Valdrad wrote:So I've recently been having some fun with Orks and decided to try out a deathstar unit:

5 Meganobz
1 Ghazghkull Thraka
1 Mad Dok Grotsnik
1 Battlewagon

So I'm happily laying waste to units here and there, when an interesting situation arises. I win a combat, without decimating my opponent, and he fails his morale check. So he starts to roll for sweeping advance, and I tell him that Meganobz can't sweeping advance. He asks me if I'm sure, and we decided to check. I check the Slow & Purposeful rule and do not see anything about it. I check the Sweeping Advance section and don't see anything about it. I check the description for Meganobz and for Mega-armor and still can't find anything.

Have I just missed this somehow in the heat of the moment, or can Meganobz actually sweeping advance?

Valdrad

Yes, MANZ are perfectly able to Sweeping Advance. You are thinking of Tactical Dreadnought Armour used by various Adepus Astartes Chapters and certain members of the Inquisition and also =][= Censored by Inquisitorial Protocol OM-00275D =][= .

Yes, Terminators is exactly what I was thinking about and why I assumed Meganobz can't either. I was rather surprised that I could not find a rule preventing them from performing a sweeping advance.


Thanks Gwar!

Valdrad wrote:Yes, Terminators is exactly what I was thinking about and why I assumed Meganobz can't either. I was rather surprised that I could not find a rule preventing them from performing a sweeping advance.

It makes sense, why would Meganobz want to miss the opportunity to kill the scared 'umies as they are running away.

Valdrad wrote:So I've recently been having some fun with Orks and decided to try out a deathstar unit:

5 Meganobz
1 Ghazghkull Thraka
1 Mad Dok Grotsnik
1 Battlewagon

So I'm happily laying waste to units here and there,

On a side note... Are you sure you are playing the rules for Mad Doc legally? Mad Doc's movement rules are a HUGE liability for MANZ and makes them very easy to manipulate as they have no choice where they can move and you can always stay out of range of them once they are on foot.

There is also disagreements on can the Mad Doc ever voluntarily re-embark a transport and stay within the legality of his rule. Even if you agree he can re-embark, once on foot, that whole unit is basically dead in the water and can be lead around the board and kept easily out of assault.

So the only way you can easily and happily lay waste with this particular unit is probably by playing the Mad Doc rules wrong which may be an issue.

Yeah don't attach the mad dok to meganobz

Daggermaw wrote:Yeah don't attach the mad dok to meganobz

? ... but if he's riding around in the same battlewagon then he has to, and once joined with a unit can't leave it?

unless you are riding around in another transport?

? ... but if he's riding around in the same battlewagon then he has to, and once joined with a unit can't leave it?

unless you are riding around in another transport?

I'm not saying don't bring him, as he gives the meganobz the much needed invuln. but don't attach him to the sqaud put him with something else.

His movement rules means they can force your battlewagon and Mad Doc to move in a direction you do not control via fast skimmers like Valks and Landspeeders since Mad doc must move as quickly as possible torwards the closest enemy.

Turn 1, I can turboboost or scout a model behind your lines and now your battlewagom must turn around and head towards it... and if in assault range, disembark and attempt to assault... and hit on 6's against a potentially 35 point model.

And then once on foot, I can continue to walk towards my model which S&P will forever keep you out of range and you have ZERO control. I have just nullified 2 HQs and 800pts of models with one or two buggies worth less than 100 points.

Mad Dok's ability to re-embark and when he would be forced to disembark for his rule is up for debate but being in a transport doesn't mean the BW can go wherever and his rule is ignored. If the BW is not going towards the closest enemy then mad Doc and his unit must... and if that means disembark, that is disembark.

Yes, I played the Mad Doc correctly with a single exception. On turn 2 I actually forgot his rule and moved towards the wrong unit, but the two units in question were practically side-by-side and the net effect on the game was absolutely zero. I moved towards the left-most unit, but the one just to the right of it was technically closer.

Yes, I'm aware that a wise player with any fast unit can lead them around the board and just ignore them.

It was an experiment with a deathstar unit. I was just trying one out for fun. I am well aware of both the advantages and the disadvantages of running that particular combination.

Basically it went like this:

It was a 1500 point battle, Seize Ground, and Pitched Battle deployment. I had very carefully placed my 2 objectives so that he was somewhat forced to place his three near the middle of the board. This meant all 5 objectives were within about 24" of the center of the board.

He was playing an IG gunline with 2 LRBT, one Chimera with his command squad, 3 footslogging platoons, and a psychic battle squad. Or something along those lines, I don't actually know IG well enough to give you all the details of his list. Both of the platoons had Autocannon HW Squads.

I deployed first and set the BW with deathstar behind some trees on my left flank. Two of my 4 Trukz were hiding behind a hill that he could not see over 12" from the center in the middle of the board. One other Truk of Shoota Boyz was behind the BW, and 10 Lootaz were hiding in a copse of trees where they could see most of his deployment area and reach the majority of the board. I held 1 Truk of Shoota Boyz in reserve.

Turn 1 I ran the BW right at him, 13" (RPJ) right through the trees using the Deffrolla for the dangerous terrain tests. All 3 Trukkz did basically the same thing, but moved around the terrain since they did not have rams and I did my best to position them where they would have cover from the terrain they moved around.

I actually think I was a little reserved here, because I did what I could to keep cover since I could not WAAGH! on turn 1.

His Round 1 I made the cover save on the BW as one of his LRBTs opened up on it. He popped one of the two Trukz in the middle of the board despite its cover, and he killed a couple of Lootas who made their cover save. His Psychic Battle Squad and another unit both entered a Ruin just in front of (and to the right) of my BW, and the moved up to the second floor. He was trying to get a good position for this Psychers to open up on me.

Round 2 is where I made my mistake. The Psychers in the building were technically closer. The BW should have gone straight for them, disembarked the deathstar, and then I probably would have had to WAAGH! to get up to the second floor and decimate the 2 Squads up there. But the deathstar would have totally destroyed his squads in the ruin.

What I did do, by mistake, was charge the BW another 13" towards his first platoon that was parked right beside the building. I disembarked and charged with the deathstar and wiped out that platoon. Two of my remaining Trukz charged his lines.

On his turn, he opened up with everything on the deathstar and I used the WAAGH! anyway so that I could place some of the plasma and meltagun shots on Ghaz in order to minimize damage to the squad as a whole. Ghaz took 2 wounds, Dok took 1, and I lost 1 Combi-Skorcha MNob.

On turn 3, I realized my error and measured the distance to every enemy unit around me. No big shock, the psychers were the closest unit. Still under a WAAGH!, the deathstar walked 5" into the building (rolled a 1 and a 5 on the movement dice), ran 6" up to the second floor, and then charged 3" (again the dice roll) in order to CC both of the units up there. Yes, there really was that much room on the 2nd floor.

Also under a WAAGH!, my other two units in Trukz (one Shoota Boyz and one Slugga Boyz) hit his other 2 remaining platoons. My other Shoota Boyz in reserve also entered from my table edge.

This was basically the end of the game right here. Having my deathstar and 2 other squads all hit his lines at the same time was basically the end for him. My error on turn 2 really would not have mattered. It simply would have meant that I entered the bulding on turn 2 and killed everything up there, and then exited the building and wiped out a platoon on turn 3. Instead I wiped out the platoon on turn 2 and killed everything in the building on turn 3.

So yes, while I made a mistake on turn 2; I did catch it and played the unit correctly for the rest of the battle. He just didn't have anything that could deal with it. One of our other friends, that plays Eldar, would have basically just ignored the unit for most of the game.

rage isn't as bad as you think... yes they are going to move towards the nearest enemy but frankly you're likely to do that anyway.

MANZ are about tossing enemy models about. if you can get them stuck in then so much the better.

if you're letting a rhino run them amok then you're not using any of the rest of your army in a supportive fashion and deserve to have that happen to you. I take the same opinion on death company.

NaZ

No amount of skill and support can prevent your opponent from infiltrating or scouting a dirt cheap unit to an area on the board where you do not want your Doc to go. You have ZERO control over where he moves and your opponent has 100% control.

And once on foot, enjoy S&P for the rest of the game. Lack of KFF will make it even easier to constantly put those MANZ and mad doc ass out on the ground.

And even if I can't drag you around by your nose, I can force you to assault into a unit designed to take you apart and totally nullify your FNP. MANZ are bullies who should fight under equipped units. Toe to Toe with speedy Power weapons or terminators, they fail hard. Since I the opponent controls your unit, I can force them to rush directly into a unit that will destroy them and kill both your ICs served up on a silver platter.

The only way Mad Doc is effective is if the ork player cheats or the opponent is totally ignorant and allows the compulsory movement allow the unit to get to the front lines. Anyone who knows anything about Mad Doc can nullify him and his 750 point deathstar unit with minimal effort. Cheating and opponent ignorance are not valid tactics in my book and don't work very well.

OP's example sounds like opponent ignorance if he let Mad Doc get into the bulk of his forces.