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Iron Warrior War Smith 185pts. Takes one HQ space.

WS 6/BS 5/S 4 (8)/T 4/W 2/ I 5/A 2/ LD 10/ Sv 3+ 5+inv

Equipment
Power fist.Power Armor,Combi Weapon, Servo arms (4 S6 attacks in CC)

Special Rules Independent Character, Fearless.
Repair- On a 5+ a Damaged Vehicle may be repaired, unless of course it exploded.

Iron Warrior

This allows the following rules
"Master of Siege"
You may take 1 heavy support from Codex Imperial Guard or Codex Space Marines for each 1500pts.
Imperial Guard tanks cannot be in squadrons.

"Iron Within Iron Without"

Obliterators may be taken as elites, as well all units in the army reroll wounds against Imperial Fist or successor chapter Space Marines.



So yes no maybe so? I made this and am as we speak making a model, this is for house games and friendly games at the FLGS.

Hmm... I like... has almost the same exact rules as the C:CSM from 4th edition... especially love the obliterator idea... I play Emperor's children but I would take it just for its rules!

Why thank you!!

And my first army was the Emperors misbehaving Children.

And my first army was the Emperors misbehaving Children.

HAHA that just sounds wrong. How did they misbehave?

Ever been in a Slanneshi Land raider?

What happens STAYS in there.

Oh god... I really want to go buy a LR now.

Seems pretty balanced, as far as special rules go. I'd just be more clear on certain bits, like the repair rule, can the Warsmith repair any vehicle as long as it hasn't exploded, meaning it can repair a "wrecked" vehicle?

Repair- On a 5+ a Damaged Vehicle may be repaired, unless of course it exploded.

I do believe Shadow does mean any wrecked and below on the DMGtable. Oh and what about possessed vehicles?

Great rules but could use some more work in my opinion. I would personally remove machine empathy and retool some of the latter rules (adjusting cost to match) but once you do that you're good to go.

My first suggestion would be to make it that havocs can be taken as Elites as the old 3.5 codex limited oblits to 0-1 with an iron warrior’s army negating this. Oblits are no longer 0-1 so this rule wouldn’t have much effect. A player would also run out of points before they could maximise on this. That and Oblit spam and tank + oblit spam lists might scare players.

My second suggestion would be to retool “iron within, iron without” with a rule that makes any unit accompanying the warsmith gain the fearless and preferred enemy: imperial fists/affiliated (as army wide wound re-rolling would be crazy broken, especially with template spam lists). Either that or re-tool iron within to allow units to re-roll a single to wound roll per shot/weapon

My third suggestion would be to better balance master of the siege by listing specific imperial vehicles that the player can purchase (with a 10 point mark up). Allow use of certain IG and SM heavy support units but not all (as a player would essentially have 3 codices worth of heavy support to choose from).

Another idea would be make the above 3 special rules optional upgrades so an iron warrior player could have their warsmith as cheap/streamlined or as expensive/siege like as they wanted

I will address these questions.

Yes this counts wrecked, surely the Warsmith could fix it?

Well its only against the one army. So I don't see a MAJOR problem with it.

I think I will limit the armory to only IG artillery, but keep all of the Space Marine heavys open. There is NO reason why the Iron Warriors don't have a few LR Crusaders or Whirlwinds.


Upgrades are a good idea, I'm just not sure how to do it..

There is no reason why they wouldn't have a crusader or whirlwind. Just make a static list of 5 or so imperial heavys for IW players to chose from. I recomend chosing tanks that have flavour like balisks, crusaders and whirlwinds

Edit: Limit upgrades (not including sponson upgrades and whatnot) to chaos upgrades (like havoc launchers , combi bolters etc).

The idea of a manticore in a CSM list is brutal.

Honestly with the BA dex and the Nid one before it. I say this is fair game.

I was reading my 3rd ed dex just now... man GW what thoughts were in your mind when you made the new one!?!?!

Just saw the question for possession.

I'll give it one flaw. Once wrecked the possessed Daemon escapes, rendering the vehicle useless.

The warsmith rules (with a little tweaking) will represent a great 5th edition IW warsmith. Keep in mind that this bloke is going to be a standard HQ and not an uber special character (I'm looking at you mephiston). The role of an IW lord should be as an army buffer/FOC manipulator. Kind of like a fabius bile that does suck in CC crossed with a tech marine.

Yeah, I agree about the current chaos dex. The current BA dex is an imperial version of chaos 3.5. I personally miss all the small (non game breaking) options and variety such as khorne chain axes, combat drugs, mass mutation spell, chaos lord retinue etc.

Whole whole heartily.

He is there to buff, however I think he should be on par with a Lord. The BS 6 was originally designed because he would have auto targets and etc.

He's no Kharn or Abbadon but he is there to help his men.

I think his base strength should be downgraded to 4 as he has a powerfist (str 8) and servo arms (str6 power weapon) already. Str 5 seems like a bit much as only a CC specialist lord such as a Khorne Lord, Abaddon or Kharn would have a higher str then the standard 4.

As for bs6, I am not to sure how I feel about it. It might be too good but I am not too sure without playtesting it. What about making his combi weapon master crafted instead (as they are missing in the current fail dex and an IW Lord would have superior firepower to a standard lord)? An MC weapon would be easier to keep track of rules wise.

Actually, it doesn't say that his servo-arm attacks ignore armor. Also, is Machine Empathy supposed to be more like a psychic power, or more like a 3+ invulnerable save. Either way, I think it should have a range restriction.

Nah, just a one time thing. Damnatus inspired me to have some move that disallowed weapons to harm him.

Yet make it playable.

I would nerf his strength by 1 as it makes no sense for him to have 5 strength base, and his BS by 1, he is a master of trench warfare but that doesn't make him the greatest marksman ever known.

Give him the option for terminator armor, too.

For 200pts this is very very good. 7 S10 attacks, being able to fix wrecked vehicles, negating a turn of shooting as well as good really good FoC modifications. Abbadon is 275pts and Calgar is 250 and neither are anywhere near this good. At the moment he's probably worth 300+pts, even without eternal warrior. Hes so under priced it would be a no-brainer in every single CSM army ever, even more so than lash.

Remember all the attacks made by the character count as using his special weapons, so in effect all his attacks use the powerfist. You have to specify otherwise. It would be better if his harnes gave his 2 extra attacks at the most. As ph34r said, there isnt much point him being S5, S4 base is enough.

Why BS6? There's no need for it. BS5 is fine.

While I'm sure he has the ability to repair vehicles that have been wrecked, it takes time. Much longer than you have in a battle when you're being shot at. A player turn represents 20mins to an hour at most, which is enough to effect minor repairs but not do anything major. Keep it to the usual techmarine ability.

Machine empathy is insanely good. That will single handedly win games by itself. It also doesnt really make much sense unless he has some sort of psychic ability, in which case it would suit an IW sorcerer character more.

Oblits are good enough when you can only take 9. In higher point games 18 oblits would be almost unstoppable. Change it to may take a single unit of oblits as elites.

There are no distinct chapters in the SM codex so how does that ability work? Does the army have to be painted in imperial fist colours and use lysander? what about someone using lysander as a 'counts as'? Its too vague an ability to properly work so remove it.

IG heavy choices now come in squadrons so allowing a single heavy choice in effect allows you to take three tanks. As tasty as having a couple of executioners in a CSM army would be its too powerful. Limit it to one.

If you do all of that then hes probably worth around 200pts, but probably more. I like the throwback to the last edition but you've made him too good.

Regwon's feed back is pretty spot on. In theory, the idea behind the warsmith is good but he needs a little polishing. To sum up what needs to be changed (as suggested by Regwon) and add further

Repair: Change to the standard techmarine ability

Stats: Change Str to 4 and Bs to 5

FOC Ability: Make it that a single unit of oblits or havocs can be taken as a special elites choice (you could add in some fluff about them being a warsmiths vanguard/retinue or something)

Machine Empathy: Perhaps change this to just simple bionics instead (as the old warsmith model has bionics)

Imperial Tanks: No squadrons, just single tanks. Read both C:SM and C:IG and compile a static list of 5 or so single imperial tanks/heavy support choices (with a 10 point mark-up as they are looted and non standard) and list them with the Warsmith's profile (this way the heavy support choices can be better balanced and whatnot).

Iron Within, Iron Without: I agree with Regwon that the implementation of this rule may be an issue. If your dead set on having this rule I have some ideas. Perhaps this can be made as an optional upgrade (against a consenting opponent that is using Lysander or an army with a proper imperial fist colour scheme). I would change the rule from an army wide buff to conferring preferred enemy to a single unit in your army of your choice (kind of similar to the Sanguinor's ability). I would cost an ability like this to be around 25 points.

Yea, I think he needs toning down. I also came up with a cooler and more balanced special rule, however I forgot what it was.. I'm awfull at making rules lol.

@Reg yes I guess I did not specify but if the army is Imperial Fists/successor as in Pedro Cantor,Black Templar,Armies or lysander the rule takes place.

How about give him two abilities:

1. Master shot: the Warsmith and all members of the squad he is attached to may reroll one to-hit roll for a shooting attack per turn.

2. Calming Words: The Warsmith can speak with the Machine Spirits of all of the enemies weapons and tanks. Any unit who wishes to shoot at the Warsmith or any unit within 6" must re-roll all successful rolls to hit.

I like it. As an IW player i am always tryign to think up decent units for my army to give it more flavour.

One idea i had for my ICs was the special rule "Siege Lord".

I added on 50pts to the cost of the model which then allowed me to re-roll scatter on ordnance weapons. Seemed quite fluffy to me.

orbital strike or at least Earthshaker barrage?

"Pre-emptive Strike".

After deployment, but before the first turn s made. the Warsmith may call in a long range bombardment using the following profile:

S8, AP3, Heavy 3 Large Blast, unlimited range.


**The Heavy 3 means the 3 basts scatter like the shots form the LR plasma variant. Scatter 1 shot as normal, roll the arrow dice and place the next marker touchign the first, repeat for the third marker

WS 6/BS 5/S 4 (8)/T 4/W 2/ I 5/A 2/ LD 10/ Sv 3+ 5+inv

Looks ok to me.

Equipment
Power fist.Power Armor,Combi Weapon, Servo arms (4 S6 attacks in CC)

The fist and the servo arms kind of overwrite eachother a bit and make it all a bit confusing. I recommend dumping the fist and having the servo grant him +1A and double strength for all his attacks. Maybe against vehicles he could plump for one attack with str+2D6 instead of all his attacks with 1D6?

Special Rules
Repair- On a 5+ a Damaged Vehicle may be repaired, unless of course it exploded.

OP. How about he grants all Chaos vehicles the ability to ignore shaken results? Or maybe can apply his warped techno prowess to one Chaos vehicle pre-battle (for extra points) giving it some otherwise-unavailable upgrade - an extra armour point on one of its hit zones, better range on one (or all) of its guns, or better capacity to carry troops as pulled-out-of-the-ass examples.

"Master of Siege"
You may take 1 heavy support from Codex Imperial Guard or Codex Space Marines for each 1500pts.
Imperial Guard tanks cannot be in squadrons.

It's just IMO but i'm not keen on special abilities having to branch out to another codex, I guess plenty of people would disagree though. Anyway, i'd recommend "Master of Seige" giving him something like the ability to allow all Chaos ordnance weapons to reroll their scatter dice; or deducting one less from scatter results across the board.

"Iron Within Iron Without"

Obliterators may be taken as elites, as well all units in the army reroll wounds against Imperial Fist or successor chapter Space Marines.

I like the first part, though it's OP - one unit maybe, not all the elite slots.

The second part is ambiguous and pointless if you're not fighting Imp Fists; and bend-me-over-and-grease-me-up OP if you are.


Just my two cents. Will be interested to see how you get on with this one.