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I decided to drop my paper Preds for some oblitz I converted from leftover Marines, and its worked out so far, but I'm concerned that my squad sizes may be too small. Any thoughts?

Daemon Prince
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

Lucius the Eternal
w/
Noise Marines x9
Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren

Noise Marines x6
Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, Personal Icon
Rhino

Noise Marines x6
Blastmaster
Rhino
Havoc Launcher

Obliterators x2

Obliterators x2

Land Raider
Daemonic Possession

Strategy:
I deploy 2 Oblitz from the beginning, and Deep strike the other where needed. Lucius embarks in the Raider, as the Prince follows behind the Doom/Rhino to another objective, while the Havoc/Rhino sits back on the home objective.

Not a fan of solo DPs. If you're taking a HQ that is joining a squad your other HQ is recommended to be a sorc/lord/SC that can join one as well. Otherwise he is left out in the open to eat gunfire and whether he hides behind a rhino or not he's going to be able to be targeted. I also dislike lash of submission (especially a single one). It is becoming more and more useless as people mech up and run horde armies and armies with psychic defense. I'd suggest wings/wings+warptime/wings+warptime+MoN/MoT(if you take tzeentch get WoC/BoC).

I'd think about DSing oblits before you do it. For 150pts you get 2 shots with your choice of weapon (most likely multi-melta to hit artillery or other important vehicles?) and then they are quite likely to get eaten/shot to pieces. I'd really recommend rolling with a termicide squad if you want a DSing unit to kill whatever. They're cheaper, you get an extra shot(albeit with 6" less melta range), and it doesnt eat up a heavy support slot (so you could leave the oblits on the backline or take havocs or w/e).

Halsfield wrote:Not a fan of solo DPs. If you're taking a HQ that is joining a squad your other HQ is recommended to be a sorc/lord/SC that can join one as well. Otherwise he is left out in the open to eat gunfire and whether he hides behind a rhino or not he's going to be able to be targeted. I also dislike lash of submission (especially a single one). It is becoming more and more useless as people mech up and run horde armies and armies with psychic defense. I'd suggest wings/wings+warptime/wings+warptime+MoN/MoT(if you take tzeentch get WoC/BoC).

I'd think about DSing oblits before you do it. For 150pts you get 2 shots with your choice of weapon (most likely multi-melta to hit artillery or other important vehicles?) and then they are quite likely to get eaten/shot to pieces. I'd really recommend rolling with a termicide squad if you want a DSing unit to kill whatever. They're cheaper, you get an extra shot(albeit with 6" less melta range), and it doesnt eat up a heavy support slot (so you could leave the oblits on the backline or take havocs or w/e).

Luckily I have a few Termies lying around. lol
For room would you suggest I drop a Rhino and Oblit, or dropping the idea of second HQ choice altogether?

First question do you want to win any games at all?!? This army is not going to win many games.

Your army was OK till I saw the Land raider i personally believe they are a massive point sink. I have watched many games in which my teammate or opponent has had their land raider destroyed in the first turn and after this their army becomes completely crippled.

Obliterators are nice keep them there although I personally use dual vindicators and lash sorc but oblits are good.

DP is alright but your army doesn't have that many templates so i think lash is a bit pointless, i would rather wind of chaos.

Lucius is nice but put him in rhino with less noise marines.

Your noise marine squads need run naked rhinos, and both need to be combat oriented, if you want blastmaster use cheap 5 man squad with no rhino for objective camping.

I think instead of land raider use your terminators or a predator with lascannons

Yeah, the LR can become a liability if its getting popped early in the game.
I'd give Lucius and his 'retinue' a Rhino and use the points to add 2 Obliterators.

wuestenfux wrote:Yeah, the LR can become a liability if its getting popped early in the game.
I'd give Lucius and his 'retinue' a Rhino and use the points to add 2 Obliterators.

I'm new to the whole "Raider" thing, I just got a hold of an MK1, and was trying to find a way to wedge it in, but c'est la vie.
I guess I'll have to get to work on two more Oblitz.

Personaly I don't like chaos squads of less than 8(except PM, they are fine at 6 or 7). I skip the doom sirens(sometimes... if I use it I put it on one squad only) and the blastmasters and go straight up sonic blasters for super assault marines. If you skip all the expensive upgrades you can end up with a list like:

Winged lash DP
Winged Nurgle Warptime DP(although with all the new rage in psychic defense warptime is becomign less useful)

3X 8 CSM, champ, fist, MG, IoCG, RHino
8 cult troops of your flavor (prolly noise marines in your case) in a rhino
2 oblits

Or you can do the the same kind of thing with the list you already have

Winged lash prince
Winged (any other kind of prince)

3 x 8 NM, champ, fist, rhino(270 each)

2 x 2 oblits

That leaves about 80 points depending on the second prince to add a doomsiren or two, or a thrid oblit. At first glance that looks about the same number as you had before, but they now have a dedicated mission(assault) and are good at it ... drive rhino 12" forward, smoke. Next turn deploy 2" from door, move 6" shoot twice (hit on 3's wound on 4's vs MEQ) if you arn't worried about the target losing 25% and running away, assault 6" with 3 attacks each at init 5 before most other opponents (that will hit on 4's wound on 4's against MEQ). That by itself is pretty effective, and doubly so when you add in the possibility of doom sirens, and pwer fists.

If going against a horde list like orks or nids you can also put out a hail fo fire ... 72 bolter shots a turn, plus the oblits. Then when they get close you are no slouch in assault either.

I've been avoiding Sonic Blasters, because I dread the idea of converting so many bolters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
With so many helpful suggestions, this is what I came up with:
Lucius the Eternal w/ Power Weapon, Personal Icon, Doom Siren, Mark of Slaanesh
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Force Weapon, Wind of Chaos, Mark of Slaanesh, Personal Icon, Familiar, Warptime

Noise Marines x7 w/ Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, Meltabombs, Rhino, Extra Armour
Noise Marines x7 w/ Champion, Power Weapon, Doom Siren, Meltabombs, Rhino, Extra Armour
Noise Marines x6 w/ Blastmaster

Terminators x5 w/ Champion, Chain Fist, Heavy Flamer, Mark of Slaanesh, Combi-Melta x4

Obliterators x2
Obliterators x2

What I really love about this setup, is how I get to use all my models. (minus the LR that is )

Well, Terminator champions are not worth their points.
A small Termie squad will eventually shot to pieces before they can do any damage.
I'd take 5 Termies with combi-weapons, 2 power fists, and IoGC.

Finally, I'd prefer one or two winged DPs with lash of submission (instead of your HQ's) any day.
At lower pt levels, DPs are tough to beat.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, Terminator champions are not worth their points.
A small Termie squad will eventually shot to pieces before they can do any damage.
I'd take 5 Termies with combi-weapons, 2 power fists, and IoGC.

Finally, I'd prefer one or two winged DPs with lash of submission (instead of your HQ's) any day.
At lower pt levels, DPs are tough to beat.

This could be my inexperience, but I thought being a Champion would give him an extra attack with the Chain Fist?

TheDevo wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, Terminator champions are not worth their points.
A small Termie squad will eventually shot to pieces before they can do any damage.
I'd take 5 Termies with combi-weapons, 2 power fists, and IoGC.

Finally, I'd prefer one or two winged DPs with lash of submission (instead of your HQ's) any day.
At lower pt levels, DPs are tough to beat.

This could be my inexperience, but I thought being a Champion would give him an extra attack with the Chain Fist?

It would. But the squad will hardly reach cc and if it gets swamped by a larger unit it will be dead anyway.
Keep the upgrades always low.

I made the recommended tweaks, but I kept the Champ, not by choice, it's just my termies came from AoBR, and I really don't feel like converting him down.
Terminators x5 w/ Champion, Chain Fist, Icon of Chaos Glory, Combi-Weapon x5

I have tried so many times to find the right way to use my Termies, that I'm starting to think I should just shelf them, and save myself the hassle.

I find there are two ways to use them,
either as a 10 men shock & awe unit or
as a small termicide unit with combi-meltas.

Upgrading to Champions is a waste of points.

I find there are two ways to use them,
either as a 10 men shock & awe unit or
as a small termicide unit with combi-meltas.

wuestenfux wrote:Upgrading to Champions is a waste of points.

I find there are two ways to use them,
either as a 10 men shock & awe unit or
as a small termicide unit with combi-meltas.

Since I only have four regular Terminators, would two teams of two work for termicide, or would just one team of three be enough?
Okay, my bad, I'm dumb minimum squad number is three.

Well, I'd keep the Termie upgrades as cheap as possible.
Another point is the use of Lucius and a Slaaneshi Sorcerer.
Both choices are not optimal.
I'd leave them home and take 2 winged DP with lash.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'd keep the Termie upgrades as cheap as possible.
Another point is the use of Lucius and a Slaaneshi Sorcerer.
Both choices are not optimal.
I'd leave them home and take 2 winged DP with lash.

I thank you for all the helpful advice, and I know that dual Princes are best, Its just I try to do the best I can without doing what everyone else does, if I was to jump into a tournament then I would without a doubt run two Princes.

I like to be different.

I think your second list is fine, just move one noise marine from blastmaster squad and attach lucius to the other and its a great army

If you need ideas check out my 1500 slaanesh list, i want to integrate lucius at some stage.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/288744.page

in my experience playing EC, noise marines without sonic blasters are a total waste of points. you may as well use CSM squads and give them an IoCG and paint them pink.

blastmasters are just not worth it, you pay a premium for what is in effect a missle launcher. those points can be put to better use elsewhere

ive tried to run lucius, and every time i wish i hadnt. he just doesnt hold up in the end.. if you dont want to run dual lash, a DP with warptime is a combat machine.

your army isnt bad, but again, imo noise marines need to have sonic blasters. (if you are going to convert instead of buy sonic bitz, take the silly little heads from the vehicle spruces and glue them on the end of your bolters. simple and effective if you need to make a bunch)

Lightning234 wrote:I think your second list is fine, just move one noise marine from blastmaster squad and attach lucius to the other and its a great army

If you need ideas check out my 1500 slaanesh list, i want to integrate lucius at some stage.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/288744.page

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm going to switch some NMs around, and maybe throw out the Termies, for some more Oblitz, or possibly a Rhino of Possessed.
Nice list by the way.