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On paper i feel 100 points for a thunderfire cannon is worth it, does anyone have any advice or experiences? I'm considering purchasing one but would like to know if it's worth coming off the shelf

No idea game wise, but I am reliably informed it's an absolute fether to put (and keep) together.

i use them now and then, look at it this way
techmarine 50 pts
servo harness 25 pts

so thats 25 pts for a thunderfire lol

just put it in cover and bolster that area with the TM and you'll be fine, and lysander if you have him lol 2+ cover save

they are ok against swarm armies just make sure you put a jucier target nearer the enemy ie: termies or LR


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i use them now and then, look at it this way
techmarine 50 pts
servo harness 25 pts

so thats 25 pts for a thunderfire lol

just put it in cover and bolster that area with the TM and you'll be fine, and lysander if you have him lol 2+ cover save

they are ok against swarm armies just make sure you put a jucier target nearer the enemy ie: termies or LR

It's a glass hammer... which essentially means everybody weights the two aspects differently.

It's a laughable kill point for some.
Dawn of War screws it.
Terrain dependant.
Opponent dependant.
Requires an opponent who doesn't know what it is capable of and wants an opponent to bunch up.

I throw mine in a corner and leave it there. Usuallt I'll combat squad the rocket half of a tac squad for some assault cover. Regardless, Heavy 4 with strength 6 has ruined the first turn for a number of ork players.

You get a free techmarine (normally 75 pts) with it, so it's not THAT bad of a choice. The only issue is that it's made of glass. I remember the first time I faced one I was amazed at how easy it was destroyed.

Low points cost, decent firepower, easily destroyed. I'd say worth it. Not against shooty armies, but against something with limited ability in the shooting phase it is really quite good. Put it in cover and hopefully you'll get two turns of shooting before they either target it, or beat it up in cc. Having one in a cabinet to take out when the oppertunity arises is a good idea.

Yeah glass cannon FOR SURE!

Compare them to Predators and you'll see there is much to be desired.

If it's threatening, your opponent will kill it quickly.

If it's not, your opponent will ignore it entirely.

the gun has a huge problem... its not cheap to field, not at all. You need to factor in the missed opportunity that your loosing out on fielding another heavy support. I almost always max out my support choices.

9 times out of 10, a dakka predator would be more useful than a thunderfire against a competent opponent, because its far more durable, because it can move forward 12" to block line of sight or contest, and because its not relying on blast templates that are fairly ineffective if the opponent doesn't bunch up.

Its also fair to note, that if your playing a foot ork player, the game will take significantly longer to play if you field a thunderfire, because he has to ensure he keeps his boys spread out. I know its a wierd reason to not field thunderfires, but it really makes fighting foot orks faster if you don't have them.

true, it competes with other, more expensive, HS choices. the model is expensive in FoC slots.



if you are playing a low point value game it becomes a very effective unit as marines suffor under 1000 points due to low numbers. the 4 blasts can allieviate this.

if you happen to have 100 pts and a HS slot kickin around its not bad.


i have wanted to try a 3 TFC list just to see how it works in mass. 12 templates will put some hurt down.


its not a bad unit, but there are more versitile units in the HS section.

it is in a similer position to Flash Gits(except the TFC is actually effective at what it does)

also on assembling: i have no idea how everyone has problems assembling it. mine went together just fine and has never fallen apart.

Don't write it off against Mech, either. Seeing the look on your opponents face when those Str 4 shots (Tremor rounds) that pinged off the armor of his Land Raider immobilize it is a great thing indeed.

sourclams wrote:If it's threatening, your opponent will kill it quickly.

If it's not, your opponent will ignore it entirely.

QFT

I've only faced off against a thunderfire once, and I was unimpressed. Like, I can see what they were doing - creating a cheap way to field a gun that can virtually do anything. Like all versatile weapons, though, it didn't appear to me to be particularly good at anything. You get what you pay for, I guess.

Like, if you were a new player, I could see taking a couple to cover your backside, but otherwise, they're sort of like the imperial guard's 3x mortar teams: a nuisance weapon.

I've seen it effective on jump infantry, making them trip over some rock due to the tremor rounds is hilarious!

If you do end up taking one, for the love of god stick it in cover and use bolster defenses from the techmarine. I faced one once, and I blasted it off the board 1st turn. Never saw it in action.

The TFC is IMO a great weapon. Yes it is a glass cannon but when your enemy has to choose between a LRR w/ Vulkan and 5 of his best TH/SS friends, 2 Vindicators, 2 MM/HF Land Speeders, and a TFC, most people tend to ignore the TFC. Whether or not to take it depends on what the rest of your list looks like. In my 1850 Salamanders I take it to thin hordes as I close in. It is surprisingly effective against MEQ's too when using the S6 rounds. Deploy that bad boy on top of a nice ruin and bolster for a 3+ cover save and it becomes harder to kill.

And if someone does decide to waste a few lascannons or rockets or whatever else to shoot it down, fine with me. This gives my Vindicators and Land Raider a break.

Also, since many people do not see the TFC played, many people underestimate the TFC. My motto for it is "Respect the Cannon" because at least 90% of games it more than earns its points back.

Gavo wrote:If you do end up taking one, for the love of god stick it in ruins and use bolster defenses from the techmarine. I faced one once, and I blasted it off the board 1st turn. Never saw it in action.

Trees aren't gonna cut it.

What are suitable ways to counter one per say? Running 5 rhino CSM and my only ranged fire power comes in deep strike units: Oblits, termicide.

I've faced one in a couple of battles. It was a major pain to take out, since it was hiding way int he backfield in some ruins, which were Bolstered by the Techmarine. Please not that you CANNOT get a 2+ save for it. Bolster does not stack! Each Bolter usage must go on a different ruin.

I was lobbing krak missiles at the opposing TFC when I had line of sight to it. Since the rest of my opponent's force was ont he table shootign and assaulting me, I wasn't able to put dedicated fire on the TFC every turn to kill it. I'd either miss with the limited shooting I was able to put on it, or it would make its cover save. Once I DID manage to hit and destroy it, the Techmarine started smacking people with his servoharness. it took an extra turn to chop him down with a power weapon, since my regular attacks just bounced off his 2+ armor save.

It's cheap enough to take, easy enough to hide, and has enough fire modes to make it useful on any board against any opponent. If you've got enough other threatening units in your force, the Thunderfire becomes sort of an afterthought, since it doesn't do anything spectacularly. It's just versatile.

You can reinforce a building and give it a 2+ cover save...

Not exactly.
You can only reinforce ruins.
It would be a 3+ cover in ruins....unless you guys house rule something.

Buildings are Buildings...the AV valued kind.

I wouldn't call it versatile at all... It has many different fire modes, all of which are good at messing with different types of infantry.

I don't believe an exceptionally long range 3+ cover/2+ armor artillery piece is particularly "fragile". But i don't think they are all that good either... for one reason only.

It is an absolutely fantastic purpose built anti-infantry weapon in a decidedly vehicular game.

Shep wrote:
It is an absolutely fantastic purpose built anti-infantry weapon in a decidedly vehicular game.

I dunno. The S6 shot can still glance AV12 (Chimeras) and pen AV11 or less (Rhinos, Speeders, etc etc). You get four shots, with a BS of 4 to reduce scatter to stay on top of the metal box.
The Tremor shells also force a 1/6 chance of immobilizing ANY vehicle if it attempts to move. If even one sliver of one of those four templates touches the targeted vehicle, it must make the terrain test, as the description of the Tremor shot says "hit", not "wounded" or "damaged."

Yes, it's a Balst weapon that can scatter and completely miss a target. But you can also use those 4 scattering blasts to hit more than ONE target. Aim a set of Tremor shells at a vehicle at the vanguard of an IG parking lot. Glancing a single Chimera in a parking lot can often block several other units from doing anything that turn.

The Thunderfire is not an "optimal" unit choice for hardcore tournament play, not by any stretch of the imagination. Hoever, it is versatile, since it can do somehting to ANY unit type, no matter how small the effect might be. Something like Tremor shells puts the ball purely in your opponent's court when it comes to decision making. Do they move that unit and risk dangerous terrain tests, or leave them stationary for a turn?
It's a fun and exciting unit to play with.

TheRhino wrote:I dunno. The S6 shot can still glance AV12 (Chimeras) and pen AV11 or less (Rhinos, Speeders, etc etc). You get four shots, with a BS of 4 to reduce scatter to stay on top of the metal box.
The Tremor shells also force a 1/6 chance of immobilizing ANY vehicle if it attempts to move. If even one sliver of one of those four templates touches the targeted vehicle, it must make the terrain test, as the description of the Tremor shot says "hit", not "wounded" or "damaged."

I understand these points. I play mech guard and I have a friend with a thunderfire fetish. Strength 6 can glance a chimera, which is just about as important as saying that a railgun can kill a devastator marine in cover. Would you prefer to shoot a 90 point land speeder typhoon at my chimera? Or would you prefer the 4 shot thunderfire cannon?

The tremor shot is also another thing that CAN be used to affect vehicles, but now you've tossed away your strength 6 for strength 4. That strength 6 had the possibility of immobilizing the vehicle anyway.

Either way, there is SOMETHING you can do with the thunderfire cannon if there are no infantry on the table. But if there was infantry on the table that would be your preferred shot, and there are MANY other ways to spend 100 points that are better at killing tanks.

Like I said before, in a world with more infantry, the thunderfire is king. But as of now, both the strength 6 shot and the tremor shot are VERY low percentage consolations for you not being presented with the appropriate target.

Kurgash wrote:What are suitable ways to counter one per say?

Ignore it.

Seriously, digging it out of cover with shooting isn't worth it, as you're wasting valuable shots against a cheap unit that isn't particularly effective against any target that it chooses to engage. They're a nuisance weapon. If you focus on killing it, your opponent wins.

That, and if it really, really needs to die, assault it. All you need to do is kill one space marine in close combat and the cannon goes silent (actually, you just need to engage it, but once again, you're wasting good units on cheap things).

If it is on the board and you get 1st turn, you can deal some damage for one turn. All it takes is one bolter round to destroy it either by killing the Tech marine, or glancing the gun. Since it is a higher change of hitting the gun over the tech marine you don't get the 2+ save.

Over all impression, Can deal lots of damage, and only takes a stray bullet to wipe it out. I say there is better options for the points.

Hey, you ever tried glueing them together?

They've made of metal and are a real bitch to glue.


Thats the first reason not to buy them.

lol they are a horrific kit to put together, i nearly ate mine just out of sheer despair,

i recomend pinning and araldite


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lol they are a horrific kit to put together, i nearly ate mine just out of sheer despair,

i recomend pinning and araldite

Check out the article I wrote for Capture and Control. In an article called Forcing Mistakes I write about how using 2-3 Thunderfire Cannons can be a good "bluff" style unit because they are cheap and your opponent can't ignore them because they shell out too much death. Check it out, you may find the article useful in other ways. I use 2 Thunderfire Cannons with my Salamanders from time to time, they are always good at killing things and if they are shooting at the TCs then they aren't shooting the rest of my army which is driving down their throat so it's a win win all around.

I love my TFC. My opponents hate it.

It can be rather tough to get rid of in a fortified ruin with it's 3+ Cover Save and all... Tremor Shots are way underestimated too. Just don't leave it unsupported, that's all. Orks and Nids really disagree with being shot my them, and wounding Marines on a 2+ is nothing to sneeze at.