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With the information from http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290823.page, what does 8th ed mean for vampire counts?

Will skeletons replace ghouls are the favoured core choice? Spears now attack in three ranks, so 3+ ranks of skeles have the same number of attacks as 3+ ranks of ghouls. Being able to take banner might swing it in the skeletons' favour.

Will extra 'Crush Them' attacks make Varghulfs' better?

What effect will the sweaping changes to magic have on what is mostly a magic-based army? If the minimum 3+ to cast is kept will only a single, high level, caster be enough for all your raising needs? If not will multiple low-level casters be better?

Will missile troops being able to fire in two ranks and no guessing for artillery make blood knights worse compared to wraiths?

Will the loss the S7 auto-kill for chariots make a black coach better?

Opinions/verdicts/predictions all welcome.

Spell-spam is going away, seemingly. You fail to cast a spell, it's magic phase (for that wizard) ends yes? That would put an end to single-D6 summoning attempts.

12PD max means a limit on the normal amount of PD generated. Normally it'd be, what, 14-ish at 2K points? Not as bad, however (or very bad, depending on your interpretation) with Invocation-spam gone.

Skeletons probably won't replace Ghouls, IMO. +5 WS2 S3 attacks is inferior to higher weapon skill and poisoned attacks (on average, you'll need 8 attacks to cause a single wound against a T3, WS2+, 4+ save model). Being easier to wound (+1 to hit and +1 to wound at a 5+ save in turn isn't that great) doesn't help their case either.

Wraiths are already pretty much dominant choice from what I've seen in lists. The "strike last" due to their GW's doesn't effect them as much seeing as how 80%+ units that aren't Daemons, Forest Spirits, or Skaven won't be able to hit them.

Black Coach without Insta-Death makes it a slightly better support unit, but many VC's I see not taking it to preserve what few PD's they have.

However, if the rumors are true, skeletons will become more popular for an entirely different reason:

Skeletons can carry banners, and can thus hold objectives in the new objective-based scenarios. Ghouls can't.

Some of the scenarios are still Victory Point-based Carraway, that's an advantage for things like Ghouls.

Minsc wrote:Some of the scenarios are still Victory Point-based Carraway, that's an advantage for things like Ghouls.

Obviously. And it will only get more pronounced if they get rid of the "handweapon/shield" save in close combat, dropping Skeletons to a 5+ save.

I should be clearer: I don't think skeletons will necessarily be more popular than ghouls, but they will be more popular than they are now. The all-ghoul lists that defined the Vamps this edition will come with a not-insignificant liability next edition--if the mission is objective-based, these lists will have to use their Grave Guard and/or Knights to hold ground, which I doubt most players want to do with their hammer units.

Combined with a few magic rumors that might spell doom for single-dice invo-spam, we might see a greater predominance of mixed-core lists, featuring both Skeletons and Ghouls.

I think skeletons become useable.

Ghouls have been pulled back and combos of both types will become much more prevelant.

All ghoul lists are dead.

HA!

My group at a GW store played a test game with the new rules for VC.

Ironically VC are still powerful and can still spam their spells if played right.

What you do is make sure you have 2 or 3 wizards, since only rolling a 1 or 2 is failure and certain item give you +1 on invocation (and the fact that you can roll it multiple times)
you are almost guarnteed one invocation a turn, plus others.

What the new rules did do, was prevent all magic lists, since you cant get more dice for having multiple units that use magic. (2d6... thats it)

If you are stuck with a 2 and 1. SUCKS TO BE YOU! since you spent so many points on ridicoulas magic using units

All in all ghouls did fine, skelatons now do not suck, zombies are scary with the new horde rule, and taking a Varghulf is almost just sad....

Did you run it that a natural 1 or 2 was a failure (pre-bonuses)?
Or AFTER the +1 is added?

Because the first is how it is currently

Generalian wrote:What the new rules did do, was prevent all magic lists, since you cant get more dice for having multiple units that use magic. (2d6... thats it)

Not necessarily true. You still get the benefits of, say, Master of the Black Arts, plus the potential bonus dice for "channeling." You just can't exceed 12 dice per magic phase without power stones or Focused Rumination.

Vamps will be really, really good at getting consistent dice, rather than massive dice. With one vampire, I can guarantee at least 4-5 dice per magic phase (two for rolling snakeyes, two for MotBA, one for Black Periapt), and will average 9-10 per phase (seven on the dice, two from MotBA, one from Periapt).

Is there much truth to the not being able to cast the same spell multiple times thing? Might be a big turn off if I cant raise alot of zombies and replenish my army :(

Vamps will probably get an exception to that as their rulebook allows for it.

cypher wrote:Vamps will probably get an exception to that as their rulebook allows for it.

yeah that is true, we do get an erata for each army so vamps might get something that may change everything we are saying.

For now we cross our fingers and pray.