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Yup, that's granted. The Avatar trick was more to get him locked in place in order to Feat him.

My prefered 750 cryx list is E-Deny. Combo her with Tarterous & a bunch of banes. The tech is this
Turn 1: Deny charges forward, arcing a predation and maybe some venoms or marked for death to beat up on enemy forward units. Tarterous runs forward, banes advance and stay behind cover.
Turn 2: Deny goes ghosty, walks forward. Hopefully she's near your army. Feat - your stuck. Arc a marked for death into a forward model - all attacks must target it so you can run forward with some degree of impunity. Tarterous advances towards your warcaster - best thing is that he started within 9" of him - he wants to beckon those bane knights over and have them teleport onto your cursed warcaster. If that can't work then tarterous & the banes all run to position themselves for charges next turn, or spend the turn beating a heavy jack into pulp to clear the advance turn 3.
Turn 3: are you still alive? Wel, I have my perfect charges all set up - here it comes. BOOM.

Note how this requires no spells on the warcaster and all the spells can be arced from outside your feat.

Sadly it won't work against Spell warded casters, but a good list! It also requires that Tartarus and your Banes actually get there alive...

How won't it work against Spell ward? Curse isn't a spell. It's that crazy Bane
Lord Tartarus stuff.

I was referring to Marked for Death. Choir, Ward, priest prayers, etc. will give you problems unless you want to MFD your own model (which is totally legal, just make sure it's not something too squishy or that your opponent doesn't just get around it by changing facing).

Curse won't be a problem as long as you stay out of LOS. It's a badass ability, don't get me wrong, but you'll have to clear a path of LOS to use it. Trencher Smoke, Ash, Gorman scenery, other models, etc can all shut this down. This trick also 'telegraphs' just with the army composition. There are a lot of feats that can put the hurt on to counter as well. Watch out for the Witch! She'll just bombard him turn 1 (and likely your Banes too).

A nasty list though!

The spells though can target infantry, too. eDenny can totally hit ed's zealots. She just
has to target them before she she kills any with the monolith bearer

Not if he just uses the Priest to spellward them. It's an action.

Silly me.

I need to get some games in.

It's all good dude....but you're right. Jawin' on the interweb is much less useful than actual tabletime.

On the Ecaine Ideas, He can cast Stasis on himself on a pervious turn, then get slammed or Thrown, before activating, increasing his threat range by up to 10" with a lucky throw, but realisticly 4-5"s. Stasis will lower his defence and armor by two (alllowing a friendly jack a much great chance of throwing or slamming him), so you have to be careful about it's use. A Fun tactic would be to have a Bokur that's clineted to him be the slammer, as this reduces the Focus drain of having a Jack do it. Setting up two Bokurs for chain slam fun would be very "Page 5".

But they would also conceivably kill him. 2 x 3D6 - 4 damage? They don't get to choose if they use their bonus damage dice for Client.

And you'll need to roll 11's to hit him, which while yoiu're boosted is still slightly above average. He's on a smaller base, but that's still -2 to hit. All the stasis does is take off the negative mod.

eCaine doesn't get knocked down? (At work no books)

I play the following 750 Siege list.

Siege w/ Lancer, Iron Clad
Jr w/ Defender
GMCA
Eriyss
Gobber
8 Sword Knights
10 Longgunners
6 Trenchers

My #1 target in your list would be the Revenger. Without an arc node, Sevy will be forced to come closer. In order to take out the arc node, the choir priest would be need to be taken out first. Both the GMCA and Eriyss would be attempting to do that, or depending on how you set up your jacks and chior, a well positioned shockwave might have a chance to take out the choir as well. After the choir priest, the next leader to take out is the priest in the zelot unit with the MB.

The trenchers are going to pop smoke to help against the redeemers, to protect the trenchers against AtA, Siege will cast Higher groud on them, combined with Dig In, they will have Def 19, requiring Sevy to roll a 10 to hit. Even boosted, that is not a gimme. The longgunners will have fox hole cast on them, so they will be able to ignore AOE and gain ranked fire.

Jr will cast AS on the IC, and boost the Defender. IC will try to use tremor, allowing Siege's ground pounder to be more effective. The gobber will either give Siege an extra shot, or allow him to roll extra dice on different castings of shockwave.

I've never fought against Sevy, nor the Vengers. What I stated is just the initial brain storming, I'm sure there are plenty of ways for you to counter.

With Menoth, the thing I look forward to the most in 750 games is Epic Feora.

My list will look something like this:

Epic Feora

Devout (optional)

Revenger

Redemmer

Avatar

Full Chior

Full Zealots with MB

And anything else that floats my boat.


I would take the Devout for the protect it offers, eFeora has a lower focus which means a low CTRL Area and she will need to be careful where her location is, but there are so many ways to bum rush a caster that I believe the Devout would be helpful, but it could still be optional.

I take the Repenter for the Arc node and cast Hot Foot through it to throughly mess with the enemy advance.

Take an Avatar because it is a heavy that requires no focus from a low focus caster.

I would take a single Redeemer and bond it with eFreora, suddenly I am throwing out AOE's that cause fire!

One of the coolest things I see with her is that combined with a Zealot squad w/ MB, her feat can be brutal. Pop the MB's mini-feat, than target them with your fire causeing Redeemer, all that fire you just cause suddenly becomes focus for Feora when see pops her feat!

I think at 750 eFeora is the best Warcaster choice we Menites have. But what do I know, I am still a beginner.

@ Achilles: Your right on both accounts, but there are a couple more factors, ECaine will have an Overcharged Powerfield (up to 5 focus, as on was spent to upkeep statis) and two the Bokurs will probably have a Backstrike bonus for +2 to hit, meaning they will hit on 9's. This combo is not for the faint of heart, as the Bokkurs could kill Ecaine. damn I don't have my book with me, but the Slam from the Bokur should be base on his Strenght (I think it's 9) so the damage roll should be 3D6 -7 (give or take a point or two)? I'm not sure on the exact math, but that should be the in the ballpark.

@malfred: Ecaine has a upkeep spell statis that protects the target from knockdown and Stationary effects. it also lowers the targets def and armor.

Ah, thanks for that.

It only lowers his Def.

And Backstrike means 4D6 - 9 (Arm 13 + 5 Foc)x 2 if you're upkeeping Stasis (2d6 +Client + Backstrike), That SHOULD be only 10 points of damage on average. It's still a risky maneuver.

Back strikes don't give bonus damage, that's a free strike. Back strike is just +2 to hit. 3d6-9 = 1.5 damage on average - that's a bit more in my comfort zone

Ah right you are. That dumps you down to average 6 points of damage then.

A better bet then Bokurs is just have Gun Mages shot Ecaine with Thunderbolt shots. Those Push 1D3 inches each and if they stand still, they shot be effective Rat of 6+1(elite Cadre)+2 aimming, +2 Backstrike for a total rat of 11 firing at Defence 15. Their Damage is 10 plus 2D6 aginst a 18 Armor, so they need 9's to deal damage and they should move caine to 10+ inches with far less gambling then the Bokurs. Surfing Ecaine!

Can the Piper grant a second lance attack? I am aware that March grants "an additional melee attack with any weapon" (Escalation, p. 96). However, according to the Exemplar Vengers' Lance rule, "The Blessed Lance may only be used to make charge attacks" (Superiority, p. 67). March does not grant an addtional charge attack, which is why I am wondering. However, it is quite likely there is a clarificiation in the PP Rules Forum that I am unaware of.

Other than that minor quibbling, this looks like another strong rocket spam army. Tough for my speedy (read: low ARM) Cryx army to take down.

No; only your first attack is a charge attack. The additional attack would have to be with the sword (so no reach, P+S 9...)

It's P&S 9+3d6.... which isn't shabby at all.

True, but it won't scratch a heavy jack. Average roll is 19. Good against infantry, won't do much against jacks.

If you can work up the rage for +2 str/arm you'll get relic blade style hits at P+S 11.

I've played with my Vengers a bit... but I'm still not sold on them outside of a Reclaimer/Testament list. Their price tag is steep for what they put out. Being able to summon the dead ones into new units for rear-charges and crap will be nice tho.

Yeah, that's the one problem I originally had with Vengers (and the one that ToM/HR fix): One of them has to die to get the vengeance bonus.

Not by the rules, but given what Vengeance does to them an opponent would be pretty dumb to attack them in any way that's not guaranteed to kill at least one of 'em.

They're certainly no Drakun.

That's one model I WILL HAVE.

Yeah, Krueger + WWardens is bad stuff for infantry and low ARM targets. The auto hits (like A2A) hoses high DEF. About the only upshot is that Krueger can't heal them!

I like the list. I think people are looking at the list too piecemeal. Sure, Gaspy can lay a bunch of BOCs. But then guess what? He gets shelled with Infused EOM rockets to the face because of lack of focus. And mortars WMs and Behemoth won't make zealots sweat- take a look at the MB some time. Kill one or two with a lucky AOE? Great! The rest just got tougher! WMs should be aimed at the MB, Rhupert, and the priest before anything else. Assuming they don't get tagged with an A2A or rocket first. Same problems with doomies- they die like flies to +3/+3 damage skyhammers. Hell, zealot bombs do a pretty nice job on them, too.

I think your biggest threats are Corrosion (which bypasses GD 2/3 of the time- nothing should worry zealots quite like arced venoms or a few biles!), and things like chain spells which can light up big chunks at a time. Darius could be a very tough match as that many heavies will be hard to slow down.