What would bring you back?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**H.B.M.C.**

Rules that aren't horrible. Prices that aren't high. A magazine that has some content.

That's all it really comes down to.

BYE

**Lorek**

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 01/19/2007 4:52 PM
Rules that aren't horrible. Prices that aren't high. A magazine that has some content.

That's all it really comes down to.

BYE

I see your reputation for being unreasonable is still intact!

**carmachu**

Magic is gone, as someone said. Bring back the magic.

Simply put IF you are going to claim to ebthe porche of miniature gaming, you have to back it up in all areas.....Rukes are a mess, FAQ's a joke, and the magazine is toilet paper.

Bring back online sales.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Space Hulk would never fly in this day and age. The old plastic termies aren't up to snuff and if they made new single-pose ones they'd either undercut the sales of their $50 termies or they'd have to make the game like $100+.

**Hellfury**

So, with the rumours of plastic being produced for many FW products (baneblade, valkyrie, revenant, vulture, etc.) would anyone here honestly go back?

I have to admit, the prospect of a plastic revenant is sorely tempting....

But then again, with the prices as they are (and are continuing to hike, evidentally, judging by the dark angel release) this may equalize peoples temptations quite a bit.

**Vult**

Posted By keezus on 01/17/2007 9:24 AM
Short answer. A lot.

1. They'd need to completely throw away the current edition in favor of a brand new start. The trouble with the current compaction of the ruleset is that it hampers the game designer's ability to differentiate units. A good example is the difference between stormtroopers and basic guardsmen. The new edition should contain some of the following (some of the 3rd-4th edition changes were in good order).

- Differing movement rates for infantry
- Overhauled vehicle rules - Instead of glance/penetrate there should be a basic damage table, and a critical damage table.
- Leadership, pinning, fleeing and regrouping should be made more important.
- A set of "universal special rules" as exists presently - and STICK to it instead of writing rules that are "kind of like deepstrike, or kind of like nightfight".
- A RAVENING HORDES STYLE LIST FOR ALL ARMIES CONTAINING BASIC UNITS ONLY - i.e. full troops selections, and only make available 2 of every other slot. All other units to be re-balanced and re-released with "Campaign" style codecies. 3 releases a year.

The initial rulebook should be basic rules for 1000 (and under) style skirmish game.

The first supplement should expand the game to 2000 points.

1a. FAQs need to be issued in good order.

2. White Dwarf should be a vehicle for moddeling help, new scenarios (some with asymetric points values), and games-day / tournament showcases in addition to the inescapable ads.

3. Prices need to drop around ~33%. (Possibly unrealistic, I can stomach paying $50 cdn for a dreadnought, but right now, paying $45 cdn for four plastic ironguts is ridiculous - so, $30 cdn for four ironguts would be passable, and that $35 dread would be FLYING off the shelf.)

3a. Prices also need to be stabilized across regions. It is slowed that a battleforce costs 20% more in Canada than in the US after currency conversion. Price disparities should not be more than 5%.

4. An aside, but GW could really stand to streamline its inventory. Addon sprues should be sold seperate from the base kit. This would help converters and cut down on space for storing all these extra base kits. The Rhino is a good example, since a Chaos upgrade kit would remove both the Chaos Rhino, Chaos Predator and the Chaos Landraider from shelves (-edit- if they added a Sarcophagus front piece sprue to this box, they could ixnay the terrible Chaos Dread too!). A artillery upgrade kit would remove both the whirlwind and the vindicator. etc.

Anyhow, that's just off the top of my head. I'm just mostly sick of GW treating its veterans like a bunch of retards - with their "the Veterans will never leave" doctrine, and their rhetoiric of trying to placate the angry massess with idiotic excuses.

Even though I still regularly play the game I agree with you to the letter!

Only 3 other things I would truly like to see that you did not mention.
     1.   Forward the FLUFF!!!! PLEASE!!!! bring the primarchs back or something!
   2. Convert the current rules set to a D10 system.
     3.   Have a Dr. of Stats come in and reconfigure the points for everything (I dont think the points are balanced at all to effectiveness).

**nyarlathotep667**

GW's ridiculous prices have got to go. That is the number one barrier to the hobby as GW has clearly priced themselves out of it. Even if they managed to rewrite the rules to some flawlessly edited, watertight tourney ready version of v4 with all the depth and options of Rogue Trader and the current editions combined, at best they will get is vets like me with large collections of figures to purchase a few rulebooks and play again.

Pricing by "game value" is inherently flawed, I don't care how awesome a metal "Spase Mahrienz Tewmeenat0r ChaPpiE" is, it isn't worth $15. And the "Emp0rerz ChaMpiOn" sure as hell isn't worth $15. Ditto with the $12 heavy weapon marines being used to justify the ridiculous cost of the upcoming new (all plastic) box set ("it's cheaper than them all together! hurr!"). For the prices they are asking, everything else (and I mean EVERYTHING) about GW needs to be perfect. Which, given their track record, is never going to happen.

But even if GW slashed prices 20-40%, leaving the rulebooks, the BfM and BfSP sets (and similar LotR sets) pricing as is, they will still need to hire at least a technical writer and an editor, both competent and capable at what they do. Stop strangling sales channels and unlock the power of the internet again. Just as important they need squash the corporate culture of animosity towards their customers by releasing FAQ's & errata in a timely manner (done by the above tech writer & properly edited), stop with the stealth updates of codices (publish the changes via .pdf for free), and host their own (fully functional) forum where customers can interact with developers, studio personnel and other staffers as well as each other (look at the Flames of War, Privateer Press or Mongoose forums for examples of how this can be done).

And that might salve the angst so many have towards GW. It sure would go a long way at tempering mine.

**Zubbiefish**

You ask too much Nyarly.
You're not wrong but you ask too much.

**nyarlathotep667**

Hah, I know. Heck, there's even more I'd ask (namely Specialist Games ressurection and/or redux) but I know I've already gone to far.

**Hellfury**

The big problem I see with lowering prices enmasse, is that many of their indy stockists will become enraged that they have all this product they posses that will never sell for the price they were originally marked at.

Thus, GW is secure in their greed to raise prices and excuses not to lower them.

The rage would be temporary though, as they would be forced to lower the retail on the items to sell them, but sell they would indeed. And would continue to sell, instead of staying on the shelves for months until some ripe mark buys it.

**fellblade**

The true purpose of Games Workshop:

Battlefront & Privateer Press have been paying attention...

**wolf13**

Every once in a while, a firend mentions 40k and I pop back here. For me, its probably too late, but not impossible.

First off, It would take a massive effort on someone elses part to get me even lookign at it. Old gaming group, meet a new group etc. right now I don't have group and realy don't have the intrest to seek one.

Secound, there would need ot be a hook to ge tme back, like 5th edition 40k or an army revamp. 4th edition I loathe, and the new eldar codex was a collosal disappointment. I got into 40k when it was an enthusiasts game. new options and rules were coming out like armored company and VDR. VDR the way it could have been might be enough alone to rekindle my enthusiasm.

third, GW needs a complete overhaul, right now its a company solely for the profit of managemnt and players be damned. theres no intrest in putting out a GOOD product or respecting the players or making a good game.

**mtw1983**

To be honest i think the Fantasy rules are damn good for the most part. There's still the sliding thing they refused to take care of but beyond that i like how things have been going.
Having said that i really wish they'd get gamers to play test the codex before it comes out. The current O&G one is full of holes, and is really hard to deal with in some areas. Beyond that though I like it, and hope they can continue their work if only a little more proofread.

40L however, is a different story. Haven't been interested since 2nd Edition, regardless of army, and probably won't be again, the fluff is great but the game is boring,

**Balance**

Overall, GW needs to work on business practices and communication. Clean, regularly updated errata. I won't mention prices. They're expensive, definitely. I don't buy Codices for amusement value anymore really, mainly due to feeling burned on a couple (like Chaos) that I got when they were new, and the only way to get the errated rules easily is to buy again. (I know they're online somewhere...)

As to 40k in particular, I'd say nuke and pave: The only thing I'd consider sacred is the canon background, and event hat is likely to see elements emphasized or deemphasized. Everything else needs to defend itself to make it through.

A big change I'd consider is modifying or destroying the Codex system. It seems to badly emphasize that the studio is fond of various armies. If a studio member writes a codex for an army they like, it usually is pretty powerful. Those armies not liked tend to get ignored. Consider focusing on Campaign books more, or perhaps 'Showdowns' with two codices combined in one. Also, consider adding a lot of 'adversaries' type material to new books. It gives gamers a reason to buy new books they don't 'need.'

Something I'd consider as part of this is eliminating 'Space Marines' as an army. This isn't as controversial as it sounds. I'm more advocating a unified 'Imperial' army that can be tweaked to a variety of configurations with limited mixing of the current Imperial factions. As part of this, Space Marines could be made quite a bit stronger (individually) with attendant points increase, which would also allow for a bit more detail down at the lower end.

As for the starter set, I'd like to see an individually sold book but if it's small enough I'd be willing to see several different 'starter sets' containing base armies for two different factions. Kind of like BfM, but with a SM vs. Orks set, an IG vs. Tyranid set, etc.

The rules would need at least basics for every supported core faction. Sadly, as much as I like my SoB, I can accept that they might not get covered in the base rules. As long as they get covered eventually instead of the half-life of Trial List support that seems common.

I'd consider it, then.

**Osbad**

Prices and a better game. Simple really.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

I'm still active in the GW hobby to a certain degree, but my participation is no where near what it once was.
The reality is that I have other expensive hobbies which compete with gaming and which, all things considered, probably contribute more to my life.

In light of this, the only thing that would get me back into gaming to the degree that I once participated, would be the untimely death of the rest of my hobbies or the opportunity for an early, financially lucrative retirement (even before I entered the work-force!), which would free up my schedule.