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To me friendly is not a kind of list, but a style of play.

Example: in a 'friendly' game, if someone does something (say, moves his unit) and then says "oh, wait, I didn't want to do that. Can I take it back?" I'll let him, and would expect the same. In a tournament, no way I'd allow it or expect anyone to do the same for me.

I'm sure some would say that 'friendly' therefore equals 'allowing others to cheat'. I suppose that's partially true (or at least allow them to make mistakes). More to the point, it means that the purpose of the game is not necessarily fine-tuning tactics, or winning to go on to the next level, or proving anything in particular. The purpose of the game is to have a social interaction based on a shared experience. Can you do that while being 'competitive'? Absolutely. Can you play 'friendly' with optimized lists and with your wits about you? Absolutely. Can you come into a 'competitive' situation with a less-than-optimized list? Absolutely.

That's all I got.

Posted By syr8766 on 05/01/2007 6:15 PM
To me friendly is not a kind of list, but a style of play.

Bang on the money.

Friendly lists don't exist. There are simply good lists and bad lists. People may want to sugar-coat their bad lists and say they're 'friendly', and vilify powerful lists as 'cheese' or 'power-gamer' lists, but the 'friendliness' of a game comes down to the people, not the list.

I've faced horrible power gamers with lists that would make even the denizens of Warseer cry out 'bad list!', and I've faced wonderful friendly people with balls-to-the-wall power-lists.

BYE

if that is your thing go for it

i regularly play with several IG players and they all swear by the VOX and they use it well (with the master vox).

there is a guard HTH army if you want to fork out the money for things like huge ogryn squads and transports like the new FW gorgon, but thats list ideas in the extreme.

 

 

back on the subject at hand. i play with experienced players  who have many variations of static IG, mechanised IG, drop doctrine IG, all infiltraiting light infantry doctrine IG.  depending on the army and the scenerio an entire army of LD 9 or 10 across the entire 72X48" table (reguardless of terrain, distance, scenerios etc..and totally un-modifiable unless you do something directly to the command squad in the rear)  using master vox/voxs can be useful. i have experienced it in person many many times, in the end it comes down to your prefered style of play. many of the things you suggest for IG are solid and others the IG players i game with laugh at because it is not how they play IG and succeed to win games. .

Posted By Hellfury on 04/30/2007 8:11 PM

Posted By Asmodai on 04/30/2007 7:15 PM

Posted By Hellfury on 04/30/2007 6:54 PM

But really, how do you judge what is friendly and what is cheese?

Friendly is served with a smile, cheese is served with a smirk or grin.

usually when I serve cheese, it is with an undeniable look of guilt.

Must be my catholic upbringing.

When I cut the cheese it's with a smile.

This whole "friendly" thing is quite silly.

How the heck are you supposed to judge what's "friendly" and "unfriendly."

If it shoot you, it not friendly.

So Commisars = enemy.

Even if it's for your own good?

Eh, I wonder if there is a difference between Fluffy and friendly?

I run a fluffy LatD list that has hordes of mutants running forward. The only 3+ saves are on the asp champs and the occasional chaos spawn. Is the list effective? Sure. The way I tooled up my asp champs was in the spirit of an LatD list. Heck, the mutants see them as gods so I kit them as such.

As for the friendly aspect? I don't field 3 pie plates. I guess you could say there is a difference between fluffy and friendly. Friendly lists pull punches imho. Fluffy lists take the hobby in a more story oriented direction.

Posted By the_trooper on 05/03/2007 7:14 AM
As for the friendly aspect? I don't field 3 pie plates. I guess you could say there is a difference between fluffy and friendly. Friendly lists pull punches imho. Fluffy lists take the hobby in a more story oriented direction.

Yep. Reading the Gaunt's Ghosts novels I'm amazed they ever win a battle. No heavy weapons, a distinct lack of any armour and lacking in special weapons (aside from an occasional flamer). :p

They've got the "It's only a flesh wound" doctrine, common to most protagonists.

And if fluffy lists take the hobby in a more story oriented direction...what's not fluffy about Iron Warriors and Godzilla 'nids?

Take plasma for instance. Plasma is rare so have a lot of it in an army is not really observing the fact that its rare.

I think oblit heavy IW armies are fluffy. Call my crazy but it says it in the codex that they have a special relationship. Godzilla 'nids lists are just one of the waves that come when assaulting a planet, also fluffy.

The issue is when people build the army they won't add things that would be considered fluffy and they trim all fat even if it would not make sense to trim it in that particular build.

Posted By the_trooper on 05/03/2007 9:23 PM
Take plasma for instance. Plasma is rare so have a lot of it in an army is not really observing the fact that its rare.

So are space marines.

Posted By the_trooper on 05/03/2007 9:23 PM
Take plasma for instance. Plasma is rare so have a lot of it in an army is not really observing the fact that its rare.

Not really. If your playing a Patrician Guard army or a First Founding Space Marine Chapter, having a lot of plasma is very fluffy and a good way of differentiating yourself from the rabble who don't have access to as much archeotech.

Yeah I think so. If you define friendly as gimped or the opposite of minmax. If you take friendly to equal fluffy, like some of the warseer guys tend to do, then no. Every powergaming list can be explained in fluff somehow, as far as I know. Iron Warriors love sieges, some wave of Nids will be composed of the big monsters, Marines love strike-first/hard drop pod tactics, other Marines will hit as hard as possible and may have access to awesome-special weapons, Tau don't care about holding ground so should go mech, and Eldar are a dying race so whatever the hell they need to field to kick ass should be what they use. Dark Eldar raiding parties composed of skimmers sounds like a hit-and-run force also fits, but I don't think anyone complains about DE anymore.

But yeah, Abby's got the idea. In a game where a 0.01% of the population should be Marines, but 50+% of the gamers play them, then who the hell should complain about specifics of the background affecting their games at that point anyway?

It is tough. Friendly and fluffy are subjective things, and all we really have to judge them by are our own prejudices.

IIRC, Genestealers are a first wave of the invasion, and "big bugs and rippers" are a late wave. Combining the two might be considered less fluffy and less friendly, because the combination clashes with the fluff and creates one of the harder lists in the game.

Personally I tend to think of a friendly list as being "one which makes an effort not to take things which are more likely to annoy my opponent". Exactly what constitutes annoying will vary from place to place. In my area three Falcons with holofield probably would. I pretty much always field just one at 1500pts. I have fielded two for a league championship game, knowing my opponent wasn't going to mind and that the last time I played him he was able to drop all my tanks.

I also like the definition given about taking a list with less-seen units. It is friendly to give an opponent the chance to face unusual things as opposed to the exact same combination of units every game.