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Here's the bottom line, at least in my opinion. The outburst by Don Mondo was inappropriate. Anything beyond that is really irrelevant. Out of the 40 some people we had at the tournament, he was the only one that decided to express his opinion in a loud, obnoxious manner. The rest of the participants had a great time, and we got a lot of helpful feedback from them. The scoring system that we were using was a test, and it does need some work. My comments about the IFL and the Bunker, since they will never be substantiated I have removed from my first post.

Did you seriously think running a 15/5/10 point setup would add to the game?  That may be the worst idea for 40k I've heard in a long time.  If I was there, I would have left after the first game.

Kudos to the club for trying some new things and looking to do a little innovation in an area (tournaments) that could use some interesting ideas.

People have bad days and make mistakes, I hope people keep that in mind when thinking of Don.

Hopefully everyone can come together again to try out some more ideas at the Bunker.

Warhorse

The way to encourage people to play for the win is to increase the VPs for winning! Say something like 25 for the win, 15 for draw and 5-10 for a loss. I'm all for prize support as well and it is great that everyone got something out of the tournament but that is another thing that doesn't really encourage winning. It feels like those participation trophies they give out now-a-days at little league games.

A problem with increasing the points awarded for a win is that as you widen the gap between points awarded, you drastically reduce the chance of a player with 3 wins and a tie having any hope of getting a better overall score (counting in sportsmanship, painting, etc.) than a player with 4 wins. Essentially, you are moving towards eliminating the desire to play as a good sport and field a well-painted army by putting much more reward into simply winning every game. Every system has its flaws, however.

After reading through this thread (while enjoying some popcorn) and trying to understand the system tested at this tournament, I feel it could be bettered by adding rules when comparing end scores from one player to another for deciding overall winners: something like "If player A has more losses than player B, count player B's score as higher if the difference in points is less than or equal to 5." But I might be over-complicating things...

And to respond to those defending Don Mondo's outburst: Yes the tournament scoring was not handled "well", and Don had definite reason to be fed up with it. His reaction however gains no more purpose as a result of that though; no one should react that way in a tournament; the purpose of the tournament was to provide enjoyment (free enjoyment...) for many players, not just for players named Don Mondo. In such public events, it is only natural that we are expected as adults to respect those around us. By making a scene, Don disrupted the fun atmosphere. As to how much of a "scene" he made, this is obviously debatable, but please stop defending Don like he had the right to make a scene, period.

As the VP in his first post hinted at, it would have been much wiser for them to simply discuss the problem outside the store.

I have met Don a couple of times at my local GW (Springfield) and can say that he is a mostly comical, fun guy to be around. People make mistakes, people get angry, nobody is perfect... although my opinion of Don has changed somewhat after reading this thread, I can say without a doubt that I will continue to see him as I did before if he were to simply post an apology for his actions (which may have been somewhat exaggerated it seems, but still).

We're all adults here, right? Lets handle it as such :-P

I had no idea so many 13 year old girls gossiped on these forums.  Talking about someone behind their back like this is just pathetic.

Don Mondo started the thread!

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 07/29/2007 4:10 PM  (edited for content by dornsfist)

And to respond to those defending Don Mondo's outburst: Yes the tournament scoring was not handled "well", and Don had definite reason to be fed up with it....As to how much of a "scene" he made, this is obviously debatable, but please stop defending Don like he had the right to make a scene, period.

I have met Don a couple of times at my local GW (Springfield) and can say that he is a mostly comical, fun guy to be around. People make mistakes, people get angry, nobody is perfect... although my opinion of Don has changed somewhat after reading this thread, I can say without a doubt that I will continue to see him as I did before if he were to simply post an apology for his actions (which may have been somewhat exaggerated it seems, but still).

And yet you are ready to condemn the guy because of some alleged outburst that you admit may have been exaggerated and had reason to complain about.  I don't know if you are responding to me, in the future I'd appreciate clarity, but I will not stop defending the guy because the assertions made here are slandering a guy that has not been on the forum for personal reasons and people like you are selling the guy down the river.  Please re-read my responses more clearly.  If not, let me enlighten you to some facts:

• Don said in his original post that he was quite happy with 2 draws and a win.  The only fly in the ointment was in the way the tourney was scored.  (now I think we ALL agree that the way they scored the event was in fact ridiculous and counterproductive).
• KeithGatchalin played in the event and did not mention ANYTHING about Don's alleged outburst.  He also admitted he threw away 2 games on purpose to score extra points for LOSING.  (this actually supports Don's complaint)
• Panurgle gets on and claims Don was "very loud and inappropriate" and that he threw his opponents and his own models after being told to leave the event if he didn't like the scoring rules.  He also posts that he is "sick of Mondo complaining about the tournament".
• jfrazell points out that Mondos's original forum contents did not warrent the label of overly complaining and asked panurgle to support his allegations because he knows Mondo to be a "steady person" and it seemed out of character.  (of which I agree with my limited interations with Don)
• Redharvest (Dons 1st opponent "Andre" a club officer of tourney) verifies what panurgle said but downplays the model throwing to tossing some necron models as he was picking them up.  Don apologized for that action.  (this is the only thing I condemned Don on and still do, ther is NO EXCUSE for that).
• Soule55 (club VP running the event) says Don "made a big fuss in the middle of the bunker and every single person there".  He also makes the assertion that the battle bunker wants nothing to do with Mondo or the IFL and is considering banning him from future events.  (this is one of the things I balked at and wanted verification on)
• brittehelm was at the tourney and refutes the "big fuss" and didn't think the arguements were that bad as portrayed by panurgle, redharvest, and soule55.  He also did not know about the scoring until after the first game.  (this is startling because it completely contradicts the assertion that the event was ruined and/or completely disrupted)
• KeithGatchalin responds that Don HAS NOT been banned from the bunker and the bunker staff have no idea what anybody is talking about.  (odd, to say the least)
• Soule55 reiterates that Mondos outburst was inappropriate, loud and obnoxious but waffles and edits his comments about the bunker staff because he claims the comments can never be substantiated (this seriously undermines his credibility in my opinion and alludes to the fact that he took it personally and wanted a pound of flesh, justified or not)

I will repeat that I was not there, and I am in no way condoning the disruption of an event.  I do feel that some sort of arguement took place and perhaps it got a little heated.  I am not dismissing the club officers feelings/concerns, but I am questioning the severity of the accusations and the perception of the events that took place.  Again, I wasn't there, but I would like to hear what Don has to say when he returns to the forums before continueing the subject and ask others to not condemn the guy before he has a chance to defend himself.  What do you say to that Bombadidaloo?

Dornsfist etal, thanks for the support. Hadn't realized this thread was still so active.

1. Yes, I did react in an unseemly manner when I found out about the scoring. I can admit it, my behavior was inappropriate, I'm not gonna argue the point. For that, I have already apologized to Sam (the guy running it, I'm assuming he is Soulle55?) by private IM on thier forum, altho he never replied or acknowledged the IM.

2. I also posted a public apology to Sam for my outburst on their forum (http://www.biggunzdc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1048) in which Sam did state that he accepted the apology. I thought that was the end of it on a personal level. I might be wrong. I also made recommendations in the thread. Link posted for your viewing pleasure.

3. I DID step outside after the first round to discuss it with Sam. We did not have a .... productive discussion (And yes, he did tell me I could just leave if I didn't like it). This "discussion" as much as the scoring probably led to my continued surliness when I came back inside, as Sam and I have usually gotten along fairly well. To anyone else that was there, again, sorry about my outburst.

4. While I still think the Loss worth more than a Draw scoring was ridiculous, my largest complaint was the lack of advance notice. I didn't find out about the tourney through a flyer at the GW store, but through their forum or through a conversation with one of them, don't remember for sure. No mention of the scoring system was in any thread pertaining to the tourney. So no, it was not, IMO, annnounced in advance.

5. The IFL and myself have not been "banned" from the bunke, and the day of the tourney I had a good chat with the manager, so no idea where that is coming fromr. In fact, just got an invite for myself and the IFL to participate in a club day there. I can understand should the BG decide that they want to deny me entrance to any of their events, that's their prerogative. I can live with it should they do so. But they are certainly welcome to attend any IFL open (ie non-club only) events that I might run.

6. No excuse for mistreating Andre's models. For this, I apologize again.

Finally, I ask that everyone just drop it as far as defending me and/or my actions. If anyone wants to make negative comments re me and my actions, let them. I can live with it. If you want to discuss the merit or lack thereof of the scoring system, go for it. My personal actions were not appropriate, but IMO, neither were those of the individual(s) running the event. We've settled it locally (I thought) and agreed to disagree.


Don "MONDO"

Don has made a very fair and resonable effort to make things right as far as I'm concerned.  Did we have an issue?  Sure.  And while people can debate the "level" it occured at, I am prepared to take Don at his word.  Thank you Don for posting out here again - it was not required but thank you for doing so and addressing some of the issues here. 

Collectively we are all ready to simply move on - the club took some constructive advice from Don and others about the scoring system, etc. - and I found value in most of it and plan to do what I can to influence the decision process to incorporate the good, and consider everything else.  Hopefully Don took something positive away from the way he initially acted at some level and will temper his response in the future if necessary.  It's all over far as I'm concerned. 

Regardless of what happened, I will restate that I had a great game with Don and will not hesitate to play him again.  It was a lot of fun, sir!