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Mahu ,I see your point ,but if 24"S4 rapid guns are not better than those 24"S5 and 36"S6 now ,I doubt 5th ed will change the fact.

for the monolith tactic you could use the teleport sure, but that means you could not shoot the big blast too, are you really depending on Gauss Flayer to do every thing for you? besides if you even cant get a WBB roll from those powerweapons or S8 guns ,what's the point for the teleport ?

Mahu, I agree that Warrior-horde becomes more attractive in 5th relative to other builds/its current status, but I'm just wondering how any of this makes Necrons as a whole better. Pretty much all you've got is "Monoliths are harder to kill" and "Warriors can get cover saves easier." Whoop-de-doo?

Mahu ,I see your point ,but if 24"S4 rapid guns are not better than those 24"S5 and 36"S6 now ,I doubt 5th ed will change the fact.

I prefer Warriors to Immortals because of the price difference. For ten Immortals you get 15 Warriors.

Ten Immortals versus Toughness 4, 20 Shots, 13.32 Hits, 8.87 Wounds

15 Warriors Rapid Fire on Toughness 4, 30 Shots, 19.98 Hits, 9.99 Wounds

So the only thing you really gain with Immortals is the extra toughness, but if you support Warriors with a Res Orb, that advantage is lessen. Plus going with the Warriors increases your Phase Out limit and puts more scoring units on the table.

I think that strength won't be as important in fifth because I believe the metagame will change slightly. For example, I believe Horde Orks will be one of the top tier armies in fifth. I think you will see a crap ton of gaunts in Godzilla lists. Space Marines of both kinds are fielding bigger squads. So the amount of wounds you can put on a unit increasingly becomes more important, especially in light of the new wound system.

for the monolith tactic you could use the teleport sure, but that means you could not shoot the big blast too, are you really depending on Gauss Flayer to do every thing for you? besides if you even cant get a WBB roll from those powerweapons or S8 guns ,what's the point for the teleport ?

Well it would take foresight and careful timing to decide which one to use when. Since the Monoliths block line of sight now, you can use them aggressive as a front line unit. Protecting Warriors behind them as they blast at the enemy. Keep that going until you get in range of the objective and start using the teleport plus Vail to do hit and fade tactics with your Warriors. Try to seperate your enemys ranks, by baiting them with a squad of Warriors with a Lord and Vail to split their forces, zap away again and concentrate of a flank. Poeple underestimate how quick Necron armies can be because most Necron players either divide their forces too much or play to defensively.

Plus Heavy weapons are becoming rarer in the new codexes and Power Weapons are not as prevelant in the codexes either. Even so, every Necron army should have two Res Orbs anyways. One to support the bulk of your force and one to support any forward elements.

Mahu, I agree that Warrior-horde becomes more attractive in 5th relative to other builds/its current status, but I'm just wondering how any of this makes Necrons as a whole better. Pretty much all you've got is "Monoliths are harder to kill" and "Warriors can get cover saves easier." Whoop-de-doo?

From a game balance perspective, they are better because more of their units will be usable. From a competitive standpoint I think they will be about the same. But they are on par with the balance of the "post Dark Angels" codexes. Even Orks, because Necrons, especially Warrior heavy, have the tools to handle the horde. Probably better then Space Marines (and Orks really don't have an answer to the Monolith in fifth).

I have to agree with Mahu. Monoliths are going to become most armies worst nightmares-Orks and Dark Eldar spring to mind. I often field 4x10 necron warrior units so 5th Ed will be a major boost towards my army.

Also whilst alot of this is aimed at very Competative armies it must be remembered alot of games will be played a bit more friendly, and so sweeping all before you isn't as important. So from that point of view, Necrons could be seen as gaining a massive boost-even if not all units get a boost to themselves, thats what a new codex will be for!

here's the problem with the lots of warriors idea: if the rumored assault resolution rules are correct you will lose every single game against a close combat army.

with 2-3 teleports and no consolidation I wouldn't think assault armies = win . Remember that the monolith allows an extra WBB roll.

here's the problem with the lots of warriors idea: if the rumored assault resolution rules are correct you will lose every single game against a close combat army

As already pointed out, I doubt it.

30 Shoota Boys Charge 20 Necrons
29 Boyz Attack at Int. 4 = 116 Attacks, 58 Hit, 29 Wound, 9.66 Failed Saves
13 Necrons Attack back = 13 Attacks, 6.5 Hit, 3.25 Wound, 2.16 Failed Save
Powerclaw Nob Attacks = 5 Attacks, 2.5 Hit, 2 Wound, 2 Dead

11 Necrons to 2 Orks, Necrons take a Leadership 1 test. (Based on the rumor that you take a minus by each wound you loose by)

End of Round Necrons would probably break, and be cut down. But this is assuming a vacume. That the Necrons had no ability to shoot at the Orks before they where charged. Let's look at something else.

20 Necrons shooting at 30 Boyz.
40 Shots, 26.4 Hit, 13.2 Dead unless there is a KFF around then 8.66
21 Shoota Boys Charge 20 Necrons
20 Boyz Attack at Int. 4 = 80 Attacks, 40 Hit, 20 Wound, 6.66 Failed Saves
13 Necrons Attack back = 13 Attacks, 6.5 Hit, 3.25 Wound, 2.16 Failed Save
Powerclaw Nob Attacks = 5 Attacks, 2.5 Hit, 2 Wound, 2 Dead

9 Necrons to 2 Orks, Necrons take a Leadership 3 test.

So just one round of shooting can cut the amount of attacks almost by a third. And this is not assuming you don't have Monoliths cutting swaths of Orks down with the blast on the way there.

So as you can see it would be imperative for Necrons to combine multiple shooty elements to eliminate one Ork squad at a time. But if you are able to cut down a Boyz squad enough, you can receive charges just fine.

I am not sayign either side would have an easy win. But I believe that Necrons will have to be a lot more aggressive if they are to be competitive.

I disagree with Mahu about as profoundly as its possible to. We seem to be 2 sides of the Necron coin.

My perspective is that you ought to use Immortals and Destroyers rather than warriors whenever possible. I view Warriors as an anchor, a drag on the force. The fact that they are the only scoring units in the army in 5th edition simply implies to me that they might actually suck some fire off my important guys. In 5th you win if you obliterate the enemy army, so I'm going for that. It's the range that does it for me. Warriors simply don't have enough range. Single shot is too weak, and if they move up to double tap they get charged. Most games my Warriors just stand there and keep me from phasing out, I often joke that they aren't even switched on.

Vs. Orks the ability to back up as far as they move forward is key. In an ideal game Immortals get one round of fire by moving up and firing, then another round after the Orks move forward and the Immortals back up. Then a third round of the same game, and finally a fourth round. In my experience Decepticron style Crons kill ~50 Orks a round, usually enough to see off 2 units. If you go first, and Snikrot only shows up on the third round, and the Lootas don't ace your Destroyers too hard, you can beat a competitive Ork list. I came within 2 4+ rolls of winning the Invitational at Adepticon vs. the Green Tide.

Obviously 5th will mess with this, as the Orks can Run, but you'd still have at least 2 rounds of fire, providing you start 4 or 5 inches back from your line and make sure to back up appropriately. The real heavy lifting is being done by Destroyers (if they manage to find a spot that can see the oncoming tide and stay out of LOS of the Lootas, much harder in 5th), and the Deceiver (who's misdirect simply stops the whole charge cold till they kill him.) Clearly the Orks have gotten stronger, tilting what was probably a 60/40 Ork/Necron win ratio even further their way, but even 30% wins vs. Orks is probably more than most any other list will be able to claim in 5th.

Biggest problem I'm having is figuring out how to fit all the units in my army all fufill certain needs...

More Than 2 Warrior Squads: For Capturing objectives.
Immortals: Good boost to the phase out count and to support the warriors.
Destroyers: Fast Long Range Support.
Monolith: Powerhouse and the ablity to get the warriors out of danger.
Tomb Spyder: Best against combat units and a great help for WBB rolls.
Scarabs: Great for holding up characters before they hit your lines and contesting objectives.
Heavy Destroyers The only real anti tank weapon.

All these units need to be fitted into a working 1500pt army, I'm too far ahead with the armies development to just ditch so I really need some help here guys?

At least 12 power dice were needed to resurecate this thread.

G

Or a 4+ on its We'll Be Back roll.

Proiteus wrote:Biggest problem I'm having is figuring out how to fit all the units in my army all fufill certain needs...

More Than 2 Warrior Squads: For Capturing objectives.
Immortals: Good boost to the phase out count and to support the warriors.
Destroyers: Fast Long Range Support.
Monolith: Powerhouse and the ablity to get the warriors out of danger.
Tomb Spyder: Best against combat units and a great help for WBB rolls.
Scarabs: Great for holding up characters before they hit your lines and contesting objectives.
Heavy Destroyers The only real anti tank weapon.

All these units need to be fitted into a working 1500pt army, I'm too far ahead with the armies development to just ditch so I really need some help here guys?

You don't NEED the Spyders. They help, yes, but they are a lot of non-phase out points. Also at 1500 you can do VERY well without a Monolith. Either of these can be dropped to fit in the more essential units: Warriors, Immortals and H. Destroyers. Regular Destroyers aren't a necessity, although they ARE very handy; Immortals with a V.O.D. Lord have about as much maneuverability, and just as much survivability, with a decent amount of Firepower. Scarabs are easy enough to field; they make great points fillers, especially now that Disruption Fields are next to worthless. At 1500 points you need to maximise your strengths (mobility and shooting and Phase Out) to minimize your weaknessess (Sudden lack of anti-tank, Close combat). Anything that doesn't bolster at least two of your strengths (Tomb Spyders), or protect your weaknesses can be culled from the list. The Monolith certainly fits the bill as something you generally don't want to cull, but the fact is it costs the same as 13 more warriors. Another way to look at it: A monolith means your opponent has to kill 8 less Necrons to phase you out. At 1500 points an extra squad of Warriors can be the difference between a loss and a draw, or a draw and a win.

Proiteus wrote:Biggest problem I'm having is figuring out how to fit all the units in my army all fufill certain needs...

More Than 2 Warrior Squads: For Capturing objectives.
Immortals: Good boost to the phase out count and to support the warriors.
Destroyers: Fast Long Range Support.
Monolith: Powerhouse and the ablity to get the warriors out of danger.
Tomb Spyder: Best against combat units and a great help for WBB rolls.
Scarabs: Great for holding up characters before they hit your lines and contesting objectives.
Heavy Destroyers The only real anti tank weapon.

All these units need to be fitted into a working 1500pt army, I'm too far ahead with the armies development to just ditch so I really need some help here guys?

Get yee back to the pits of darkness, Necromancer!

Suffer not the witch to live!