'Ard Boyz Scenarios

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**GMMStudios**

Wow I bet st.John is dancing if hes using the same army at ard boys as he did at the gt...

**Savnock**

budro wrote:Might as well just play checkers were everything is the same except for a few uber pieces.

Uh... dude, it's called chess.

**GMMStudios**

Savnock wrote:Looks like a single Vyper may be in my future. Lame. I hate having to game extended rules like this, but it is 'Ard Boyz in the first place so whatever. Maybe a little cheddar will have to go in with the Stilton.

I do wonder if they're releasing these to have one over on everyone, though... or if they even came from GW. Anyone got vague confirmations on reliability of source (no names/real info, of course)?

Or maybe a minimum unit of hawks. Do their yo yo trick every turn till last and park on one of five of those objectives that are away from the carnage.

**Janthkin**

Savnock wrote:Looks like a single Vyper may be in my future. Lame. I hate having to game extended rules like this, but it is 'Ard Boyz in the first place so whatever. Maybe a little cheddar will have to go in with the Stilton.

I do wonder if they're releasing these to have one over on everyone, though... or if they even came from GW. Anyone got vague confirmations on reliability of source (no names/real info, of course)?

Please note the URL that was linked - these are from GW's site.

And why on earth would you take 1 Vyper (2 KPs), just to try and block your opponent from getting 1 bonus Battle Point?

Again, especially for mission #2, your opponent's bonus battle points have ZERO impact on your own.

**derek**

Savnock wrote:Looks like a single Vyper may be in my future. Lame. I hate having to game extended rules like this, but it is 'Ard Boyz in the first place so whatever. Maybe a little cheddar will have to go in with the Stilton.

I do wonder if they're releasing these to have one over on everyone, though... or if they even came from GW. Anyone got vague confirmations on reliability of source (no names/real info, of course)?

I'd say they most definitely came from GW just from looking at the web address, whether they're the ones that are surely going to be used or not isn't something I could speak to.

**Lemartes**

That makes no sense. Take a Vyper and deny them the +1 but if they kill your Vyper they get 2 kill points toward the win in 2/3 of the scenarios.

**Cogito**

Did anyone else catch that the scenarios didn't say anything about units but only said 'troops choice' for the kill point scenario.....

If you run IG footsloggers then a platoon is one 'troops choice' not each unit.

**grizgrin**

And it's Cogito for the save! Looks like IG maxing troops may work out after all. Well, it makes it not AS bad for them, at least.

**Polonius**

Here's a question: normally in Dawn of war a player deploys up to two troops and one HQ. In these missions, we're told that "Players deploy all HQ and troops choices." Can I still voluntarily leave troops/HQ choices off the board to roll on in turn one?

**Janthkin**

Polonius wrote:Here's a question: normally in Dawn of war a player deploys up to two troops and one HQ. In these missions, we're told that "Players deploy all HQ and troops choices." Can I still voluntarily leave troops/HQ choices off the board to roll on in turn one?

I'd read that as "no." However, you should be able to put them into Reserve, as normal, to potentially arrive on turn 2+.

**Valhallan42nd**

Now, are the scenarios 2 and 3 telling you that you MUST deploy all troops and HQ choices or that you MAY deploy the above? Can you still keep them in reserve as per the scenario in the book?

EDIT: DOH! Someone already beat me to it.

I'd say it would work like the normal scenario.

**skkipper**

i agree to like normal. the wording looks like "all troops and hq" replace "1hq and 2 troops". in the statement of what can start on the board

**KeithGatchalian**

Cogito wrote:Did anyone else catch that the scenarios didn't say anything about units but only said 'troops choice' for the kill point scenario.....

If you run IG footsloggers then a platoon is one 'troops choice' not each unit.

This has been clarified already to mean units that fall under troops. So an IG platoon with 2 squads and a command squad are ( I believe) 6 +1+1...for a total of 8 KP's.

**mikhaila**

How are you getting 8 out of that Keith?

Even if you count each squad as a point, you get 1 for the junior command squad, 1 for each of the two 10 man squads. 1 + 1 +1 +3. There's no way you can call a junior command squad purchased as troops an "hq", and an IG command squad of any type shouldn't be giving up double kill points. IG are already very, very screwed by this system, with their command platoon alone possibly giving up 18 KP, no need to make it worse.

This was sent to me today from Trade sales. In essence, the idea is that if the character/commander/IC can't leave the retinue/bodyguard, then count them as 3 KP. If they are deployed separately, or the IC can leave the unit at anytime, they count as 3kp each. All IG command squads would count as 3 kp in this case. I'll be running my tournament however GW wants it, but personally, I wish they had either kept to the scoring in the book, or kept to a very simple system.

A far as retinue’s go, it is going to have to be codex specific. In some cases the retinue and the HQ are counted as one HQ choice, for example Space Marines would work this way, and in some cases the retinue will count as a separate HQ choice in terms of kill points and this would be true for Eldar in the example of a Warlock squad which does not have to be attached to an HQ choice.

**H.B.M.C.**

To save me reading the thread, can someone just summarize if we love these scenarios or hate these scenarios.

I just need to know whether to complain or complain loudly, that's all.

BYE

**Valhallan42nd**

Feel free to complain loudly. Two scenarios based on Kill points, and each HQ = 3 kill points. So all those HQ bonus choices IG get bends us over a barrel.

**mgrosh**

another Dawn of war observation...

it looks like in mission 2 and 3 where you can infilitrate after you set up. this apply only to troop and hq choices.. so no infilitrating elites/fast attack/heavy

**ptlangley**

So if you take an Inquisitor with a Land Raider transport the land raider is worth 0 KP as it is a dedicated transport. Of course the Inquisitor and his obligatory retinue are worth some KP.
Still the idea of a land raider that is worthless to your opponent in two missions is interesting... if not abusive.

SO an Elite inquisitor = 2KP
his retinue =2KP (Elite FOC slot)
land raider = 0 KP (dedicated transport)

**budro**

Savnock wrote:
budro wrote:Might as well just play checkers were everything is the same except for a few uber pieces.

Uh... dude, it's called chess.

You ever play chess or checkers? In chess, half the pieces have different rules/abilities. In checkers, all the pieces have the same rules and abilities until they cross the board, then they can move forward and backward.

OT: It's kinda of a wrench to suddenly have different rules, but adjust your game play accordingly - don't worry about your opponent getting bonus points. As long as you get the bonus points and also win the scenario you'll be on top.

**Moz**

These missions can be gamed so hard it isn't even funny. Just wish I had one of the autowin armies for missions 2 & 3.

**mgrosh**

mgrosh wrote:another Dawn of war observation...

it looks like in mission 2 and 3 where you can infilitrate after you set up. this apply only to troop and hq choices.. so no infilitrating elites/fast attack/heavy

hmm... after reading the scenario and rule book again, i am second guessing myself.
The rule book says you can deploy troops and HQ with infilitrate after you set up. But the scenario says that INFILITRATE is a special rule with no note about only being usable by troops and HQ.

wouldn't this mean that anyone that can INFILITRATE can?

**budro**

Moz wrote:These missions can be gamed so hard it isn't even funny. Just wish I had one of the autowin armies for missions 2 & 3.

Care to expand on your comment? What would you do to "game" them "so hard"?

**Danny Internets**

budro wrote:
Moz wrote:These missions can be gamed so hard it isn't even funny. Just wish I had one of the autowin armies for missions 2 & 3.

Care to expand on your comment? What would you do to "game" them "so hard"?

9 Obliterators + 6 units of Plague Marines in Rhinos.
Necron "washing machine" list with 3 Monoliths and tons of Warriors.
180 Ork Boyz + whatever.

Have fun beating those in KPs.

**skkipper**

they are good lists but far from autowin.

**MagickalMemories**

Savnock wrote:... or if they even came from GW. Anyone got vague confirmations on reliability of source (no names/real info, of course)?

Well, considering that the link goes directly to GW's website... I'd say the chances are SLIGHTLY better than average that they're from GW.

Eric

**wyomingfox**

I don't think the necron washing machine is going to be as strikingly powerful in a Ard Boyz tournement given the time consuming nature of 2500 pt armies. Let me expound, in the last Ard Boyz tournement the average # of turns was 4. In fact several games played in our store only got to an amazing 3 rounds per player :S! Given that in 2 out of 3 scenenarios, monoliths will be held in reserves, there is good chance that those 750 pts won't be showing up till later in the game and a smaller potential that those monoliths won't show up at all...(can't remember if units held in reserve that don't show up in the game are counted as destroyed

...I do know that warriors held in reserve utilizing Monoliths do count as destroyed if not on the table at the end of the game)

**KeithGatchalian**

mikhaila wrote:How are you getting 8 out of that Keith?

Even if you count each squad as a point, you get 1 for the junior command squad, 1 for each of the two 10 man squads. 1 + 1 +1 +3. There's no way you can call a junior command squad purchased as troops an "hq", and an IG command squad of any type shouldn't be giving up double kill points. IG are already very, very screwed by this system, with their command platoon alone possibly giving up 18 KP, no need to make it worse.

This was sent to me today from Trade sales. In essence, the idea is that if the character/commander/IC can't leave the retinue/bodyguard, then count them as 3 KP. If they are deployed separately, or the IC can leave the unit at anytime, they count as 3kp each. All IG command squads would count as 3 kp in this case. I'll be running my tournament however GW wants it, but personally, I wish they had either kept to the scoring in the book, or kept to a very simple system.

A far as retinue’s go, it is going to have to be codex specific. In some cases the retinue and the HQ are counted as one HQ choice, for example Space Marines would work this way, and in some cases the retinue will count as a separate HQ choice in terms of kill points and this would be true for Eldar in the example of a Warlock squad which does not have to be attached to an HQ choice.

It is my understanding that you apply the rules from the rulebook, but with the points values given in the scenario. A character with a retinue in a normal annhilation scenario are worth 2 KPs...in the AB scenarios they would be worth 6.

**Danny Internets**

wyomingfox wrote:I don't think the necron washing machine is going to be as strikingly powerful in a Ard Boyz tournement given the time consuming nature of 2500 pt armies. Let me expound, in the last Ard Boyz tournement the average # of turns was 4. In fact several games played in our store only got to an amazing 3 rounds per player :S! Given that in 2 out of 3 scenenarios, monoliths will be held in reserves, there is good chance that those 750 pts won't be showing up till later in the game and a smaller potential that those monoliths won't show up at all...(can't remember if units held in reserve that don't show up in the game are counted as destroyed ...I do know that warriors held in reserve utilizing Monoliths do count as destroyed if not on the table at the end of the game)

If you play 4 turns then there is only a 2.8% chance of each Monolith not coming in. As a Necron player I'd take those odds any day.

**Janthkin**

KeithGatchalian wrote:
It is my understanding that you apply the rules from the rulebook, but with the points values given in the scenario. A character with a retinue in a normal annhilation scenario are worth 2 KPs...in the AB scenarios they would be worth 6.

The question is, why are you assuming a platoon command squad (Troops) uses the HQ KP rules?

**wyomingfox**

Point Danny