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The SM BOOK pictures are down it appears. My recollection is that a Razorback with TL HEAVY bolter was just about the same cost as a single space marine with a special weapon. HB are good against ordinary troops, so I had wondered about a RB rush army with maybe 10 razorbacks.

They get pricey though once the lascannons go on, mine still have lascannon and TL plasma guns from the old days!

I could see our list playing well against Ork Horde, big pie plates against the Ork Loota firebase, lascannon on the razorbacks to take out Ork Truks and force them on foot. finally, a tank drop Sternguard squad to torrent the first Orks to come close.

My snipers have been successful against Tyranid monsters, do you need 10 of them and what use do you plan for the Land Speeder Storm?

base for the RB with the HB is 50pts.

The storm speeder can carry 5 scouts for late objective grabs. it can also have a MM or even a AssCannon. It can be used to augment an assault by the assault troops, as any unit charged from scouts out of the speeder is at leadership -2. The scouts that get out on an objective can also go-to-ground on the objective (with their cloaks thats a total of +2 to their cover save).

I like a mixed up flexible list,........ it's also neat that I don't have any termies????? that's a switch!

RB with HB is 45.

Thought it was 40 flat.

Its 40. I kept those pages. I'll edit with the page

edit: wait wait i think that could get me banned.

here's an inconspicuous link instead
link to copyrighted material removed -- yakface

Stelek wrote:I don't know about you, but there aren't many answers for 45-135 autocannon shots coming across the board.

Oh right, Flamestorm Cannon spamming Land Raiders are Orks rock to their scissor. lol

Or Heavy Flamers in Drop Pods.

Lowinor wrote:

Stelek wrote:I don't know about you, but there aren't many answers for 45-135 autocannon shots coming across the board.

Oh right, Flamestorm Cannon spamming Land Raiders are Orks rock to their scissor. lol

Or Heavy Flamers in Drop Pods.

Deep strike defense pretty much cancels that out.

Gotta play a neat Ork army to have that actually be viable. Or a really bad ork player.

That "Lascannon and TL PlasmaGun" I wonder if that is like a combi-weapon, considered one weapon, or separate weapons?

I was considering this

Master f the forge+conversion beamer

3 X ironclads+heavy flamer in pod

3 X 10 man marinesquad in pods +flamer +multimelta

2X scoutsquad +camo+9sniper 1 missile

3Xthunderfire cannon

the plan is that on the first turn all three ironclads pod in and take out high threat units that can lay dwn the hurt on the 3 podding sm squads, while the scouts enjoy a 2+cover save on the objective and the thunderfires take out large light infantry squads.

should be 1750-1850 points.

With only one wound, a whirlwind might be a better buy than a thunderfire cannon, but we shall see how they end up playing.

WOW the Razorback looks awesome again! Nice to see they brought back the TL plasma with las cannon, I remember a lot of people morned it's loss! The TL ACs option just looks like it'll be a ton of fun and I'm already craving the chance to make some sort of conversion using the Baal Predator turret!

Okay, now to reply to Stelek's OP:

1xMaster of the Forge, Conversion Beamer.
1xLibrarian, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity.
5x10 Tactical Marines. Flamer, Multimelta.
5xIronclad Dreadnoughts.

I have two big questions about the choices you've made with this list:

First off, why the Multimeltas? I've found them to be the least useful (not useless just less useful) of all the heavy weapon options. If I was going to sit still to shoot vehicles I'd opt for the lascannons to at least have the range.

Secondly, why so many dreads? In my experience 5 dreadnoughts seams like total folly since as your only vehicles it'd be nearly assured every last one of them would be popped by the end of turn 3. What is the greatness of Ironclad rule that makes this viable?

In previous additions I'd see an advantage of this list being totaly drop-podable, but now we have to pay for drop pods and you haven't bought any... so what's the plan here?

Swordbreaker wrote:Okay, now to reply to Stelek's OP:

Stelek wrote:
1xMaster of the Forge, Conversion Beamer.
1xLibrarian, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity.
5x10 Tactical Marines. Flamer, Multimelta.
5xIronclad Dreadnoughts.

Swordbreaker wrote:First off, why the Multimeltas? I've found them to be the least useful (not useless just less useful) of all the heavy weapon options. If I was going to sit still to shoot vehicles I'd opt for the lascannons to at least have the range.

The whole point of this army is advanced tactics.

I run forward on turn 1, and in most missions I'm set. I now have a ZOC (zone of control) both anti-tank and anti-infantry based around my infantry squads and my dreads.

Infantry have a 24" or 18" range. (Firing at tanks, or moving and firing at infantry).

The Dreads have a 18" or 12" range. (Moving and firing at tanks, or moving and charging infantry).

So while my range is shorter, it's complementary and dangerous to everyone.

Wherever you go, there I am.

It'll be a little more difficult doing this in spearhead missions, but what can you do but run twice?

Swordbreaker wrote:Secondly, why so many dreads? In my experience 5 dreadnoughts seams like total folly since as your only vehicles it'd be nearly assured every last one of them would be popped by the end of turn 3. What is the greatness of Ironclad rule that makes this viable?

Good luck killing 5 AV13 vehicles. If you play 5th, you know only a Tau army has any chance of doing this--and only certain builds of said army. Everybody else can only hurt them, and so what? If I'm not immobilized or blown up I'll keep coming.

Swordbreaker wrote:In previous additions I'd see an advantage of this list being totaly drop-podable, but now we have to pay for drop pods and you haven't bought any... so what's the plan here?

Run and dominate the middle with 5 squads of marines and 5 dreads. 5th is a FAST game. Either you get in there and control the game, or you lose.

Why not try and put the Master of the forge on a bike?
That would give him the relentless rule allowing him to attach to squads still do to being an IC and then be able to move around to get that extra bit of distance to increase the power of the beam.

zannal wrote:Why not try and put the Master of the forge on a bike?
That would give him the relentless rule allowing him to attach to squads still do to being an IC and then be able to move around to get that extra bit of distance to increase the power of the beam.

I'd like there to be some kind of weakness in the army.

His job is to sit in a corner with a marine squad covering an objective and take pot shots at enemy armor.

That's it.

I have to say, 5 dreads was high on my list once I read this codex...I've always loved the models, but man they aint been so good since I started playing 2ish years ago.

This would be a rough army to deal with. I was contemplating doing something similar but with 5 dreads and something like 6 razorbacks full of guys, but I think this would be more effective.

lambadomy wrote:I have to say, 5 dreads was high on my list once I read this codex...I've always loved the models, but man they aint been so good since I started playing 2ish years ago.

This would be a rough army to deal with. I was contemplating doing something similar but with 5 dreads and something like 6 razorbacks full of guys, but I think this would be more effective.

I think both are effective.

Put in TL Asscannon Razors and Flamer half-squads.

It'll be annoying especially since you can screen the Razors with the Dreads but getting cover from the asscannons is nearly impossible.

Yeah, true. I think the decision is going to come down to how easily I think I can make Ironclad Dreads with the Assault on Black Reach Box set Dread(mine have not arrived yet). it might be nice to put together so cheaply, with just 5 dreads and 50 marines from the sets and some trading/gifting from friends. If this doesn't work, then I'll go big, buy the razorbacks, etc.

I think it will be easy.

I'm gonna get a few fantasy hammers or inquisitor hammers or maybe chaos dread hammers from the old school, and give my ironclads that and some lego armor upgrades. Done!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Or perhaps he is confident enough in his abilties to take a list that appeals, rather than an 'Interwebs Approved' power list?

When it comes writing a list, you can either allow yourself to get paranoid about things you *might* come up against, and wind up with an army not to your tastes, but ought to do well, or you can just write a list you will enjoy using, and take the results on the chin.

I wish my faint praise was this damning.

Libriarian- gate would be great *if* he was allowed to "join" dreads and teleport them rather than just 8 bolter shots.
I'd drop the libby and a tactical squad- Get shrike (potential first turn damage(which can in itself force folks to set up strangely), flexible setup and fleeting dreadnoughts) and spend the left over points either on a min scout squad just to keep objectives (your weapons of choice, either CCW with fleet infiltrate move through cover scout to join shrike..or snipers) or razorback and rhino for LOS blockers.
What you reckon? or is shrike just a bad word nowadays ?

I run forward on turn 1, and in most missions I'm set. I now have a ZOC (zone of control) both anti-tank and anti-infantry based around my infantry squads and my dreads.

Rush the center of the board (well, slightly towards your edged of off center) and claim it. Sounds like a decent plan, and you are brining everything so not splitting your forces. I have my doubts in this plan, but it seams no worse than others I am hearing, and at last it is a plan.

Good luck killing 5 AV13 vehicles.

Yeah the AV13 is that bit I was missing there. 5 AV12s did not impress me. 5 AV13 dreads is different enough to be much more survivable.

So I think I'll change it a bit having thought about it.

5th tactical squad will be camo scouts with sniper rifles.

Might as well be useful if they are going to sit in the back and be wusses, right? lol

I figure with 2+ cover saves and a 2+/3+ save on the master of the forge maybe he can sit by himself even. Will need to test.

Now that ard boyz is over, I can get someone (yes you Aaron) to build my marines.

Gonna bug him now actually. lol

Hey Yamato, please don't hijack the thread.

Stelek, I really don't like this army. It might be good to reach a medium place in a tourney, but its not top tier. It might not even be fun to play with 50 footsloggers. Sorry.

wuestenfux wrote:Hey Yamato, please don't hijack the thread.

Stelek, I really don't like this army. It might be good to reach a medium place in a tourney, but its not top tier. It might not even be fun to play with 50 footsloggers. Sorry.

I think you underestimate it.

Once I get it built and ready, we'll see how it does.

How's that?

Once I get it built and ready, we'll see how it does.

How's that?

Sounds good!