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wasserrj wrote:There are certainly a few good things GW could take from this.

They won't though.

Remember, the GW Codex design process usually goes something like this:

1. Take good units > Make into bad units.
2. Take bad units > Make into good units.
3. Take good units that can't be nerfed without people getting angry > Release new model kit.
4. Where '3' cannot apply, invent new unit, make new model kit, make cool new rules.
5. Take one of the new units and make its rules bad, so it appears we made a mistake.


And their concept meeting for Guard probably went like this:


Jervis: So, Guard. Ideas?
Phil: What are people using right now?
Alessio: Infantry! All the infantry... there are so many... counting hurts my head.
Jervis: Ok, so people use Infantry. What else?
Phil: Command units. They use Russes. Hellhounds.
Alessio: Oh... the numbers... the pain!!!!
Jervis: Ok, ok, better question. What aren't they using?
Phil: Storm Troopers. Ogryn. Advisors. Conscripts. Armoured Fist Squads.
Jervis: Very good then. We'll make new models for all of the above, and give them great rules. We'll also reduce the power of the things people already own. Alessio, hand me the original 3rd Ed Guard Codex.
Alessio: But my head-
Jervis: Alessio! I'll cut your lunch breaks back down to 3 hours if you don't fetch me to that Codex.
Alessio: Yes sir. *scurries off*
Phil: Y'know Jervis, we can't make Russes suck. People will notice. Plus tanks are a big part of the Guard.
Jervis: Fine then. We'll release a new kit with new options that are only compatible with the new kit.
Phil: Cool!
Alessio: Here it is!
Jervis: Ah, thank you. Wow. This thing had a very small page count.
Alessio: Small numbers. Head feels better now...
Jervis: Ah! Exploding Hellhounds! I remember that rule. Ok, we'll put that one in.
Phil: We should probably increase the cost of Plasma Guns to 15 each. They are pretty powerful.
Jervis: Yeah, Lascannons too. I can't believe they're getting them for only 25 each. What a bargain! They were 20 in this Codex. Glad Pete made them more expensive.
Phil: J! You're not supposed to mention his name.
Jervis: Sorry, sorry.
Phil: So... anything good?
Jervis: Indeed. Ok, Alessio. Take this Codex, scan it, and copy it into the new format.
Alessio: Yes sir... *scurries off*
Jervis: I'm going to head to the clock tower and swing the pendulum as hard as I can. Phil. Start up the fluff-generator... input, say, 20 pages of fluff, insert it before all the stuff that Alessio's making, and take the rest of the day off.
Phil: Woohoo!
Jervis: And once that's done we can start playtesting.
*pause*
Jervis & Phil: BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Phil: Good one Jervis. *wipes tear* Ah! Playtesting! Hilarious.
Jervis: I know, I know. I've been saving that one.

BYE

Yikes, thats some whopping hyperbole there!

Don't think they will do quite that. What I see them doing to the guard (though somethings will be similar) Is increasing the usefullness of Storm Troopers, and armoured fists Squads. Can't really see them chanigng much more than that. Though they will probably release new models for inf so they can get some awsome sales from that. (Plastic Firstborn?)

Hey at the rate they are going, hellguns are going to be S5 ap5 range 30" Assault 2.

You know, so Tau players can feel even better about 5th edition.

What we have?
- S3 AP5 Hellguns that just are just as useless as Lasguns, except against units that Lasguns do well against already.

What we want?
- S4 AP5 Hellguns that would be somewhat more useful against just about everything.

What we'll get?
- S3 AP4 Hellguns that cost a point more per model, despite being still largely useless...

Ratbarf wrote:Yikes, thats some whopping hyperbole there!

Yeah, the second part is hyperbole, but then again I'm a big fan of Exaggeration Theatre when it's done in a classy, tongue-in-cheek kinda style.

The first bit I wrote though? That's dead on.

BYE

H.B.M.C. that was...

awesome!

And quite sadly, probably not that far from the truth.

C'mon guys. We all know that the new IG codex is going to be a copy of the 1st 3rd ed dex with the addition of Enginseers. Hellhound flame cannons will no longer be ranged but will go back to using the normal template rules. Ogryn will get new rules to make them more fun and characterful - like if they don't have a bone'ead then every turn on a 4+ they'll either sit around and do nothing or shoot at your own guys (because they got confused). Also their pts cost will be increased, but they'll get free frag and krak.

yeah,
HBMC thanx that made reading this thread worth while.

PaniC..

In all honesty though, I can see about everything in the list as a possibility with the exception of Russes in the Fast Attack Slot. Seriously some one was really smoking the crack pipe when they included that.

This is a Codex I am really looking forward as I am tired of playing marines for some many years. Also Guard are going to be the perfect army for 5th edition.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:C'mon guys. We all know that the new IG codex is going to be a copy of the 1st 3rd ed dex with the addition of Enginseers. Hellhound flame cannons will no longer be ranged but will go back to using the normal template rules. Ogryn will get new rules to make them more fun and characterful - like if they don't have a bone'ead then every turn on a 4+ they'll either sit around and do nothing or shoot at your own guys (because they got confused). Also their pts cost will be increased, but they'll get free frag and krak.

One inane hyperbolic diatribe per thread is enough, thank you very much. None of us expects the IG Codex to be worth the paper it's printed on (IG has been a weak list as long as it's been a part of the game), there's no need to go on and on about it like some poor excuse for a standup comedian.

IG is just fine ...

... as the Emperor's Artillery adjuct to Spase Marinz.

JohnHwangDD wrote:IG is just fine ...

... as the Emperor's Artillery adjuct to Spase Marinz.

Precisely.



Hurr!

The IG wish list isnt bad, except for the points values of Stormtroopers,l which need adjusting, but the other way.

Over all if this was the IG codex rehash I would not be too distressed, but then again I reckon you could pick any kid from the storer and a weeks notice and they will still do a better job than the monkeys at GW studio.

Kyoto got snookered.

WE MUST HAS REVENGES!

Agamemnon2 wrote:One inane hyperbolic diatribe per thread is enough, thank you very much.

Awww! Does somebody need a hug!

Or a sense of humour.

BYE

I'm from Finland. Ve have no sense of this... hoo-more you speak of.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm from Finland. Ve have no sense of this... hoo-more you speak of.

I dated a Finn. He speaks the truth.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm from Finland. Ve have no sense of this... hoo-more you speak of.

Really? So all of you up there are like that? I thought it was just the Germans... sorry... Ze Germans.

You learn somethin' every day.

BYE

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:C'mon guys. We all know that the new IG codex is going to be a copy of the 1st 3rd ed dex with the addition of Enginseers. Hellhound flame cannons will no longer be ranged but will go back to using the normal template rules. Ogryn will get new rules to make them more fun and characterful - like if they don't have a bone'ead then every turn on a 4+ they'll either sit around and do nothing or shoot at your own guys (because they got confused). Also their pts cost will be increased, but they'll get free frag and krak.

One inane hyperbolic diatribe per thread is enough, thank you very much. None of us expects the IG Codex to be worth the paper it's printed on (IG has been a weak list as long as it's been a part of the game), there's no need to go on and on about it like some poor excuse for a standup comedian.

What are you talking about? I'm being totally serial. I expect all that stuff to happen. Well all except maybe the free frag and krak.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm from Finland. Ve have no sense of this... hoo-more you speak of.

I dated a Finn. He speaks the truth.

Thats nothing. I dated a whole Shark once.

But people can see this being an accurate prediction? Pull the other one!

3 shot Rapid Fire Lasguns, with little justification.

Hellguns suddenly causing pinning? Why?

Move and Fire Heavy Weapon - Again, why do they need this?

And so on....

On the list, the only things I would expect to see come true are:
- 15 pt Plasma
- 13 pt Stormtroopers
Why *NOT* screw the BS3 Sv5+ Guard on Plasma priced like BS4 Sv3+ Marines?
Why *NOT* bury the Stormtroopers by making them even *more* overpriced?
____

I don't think GW would be stupid enough to take Heavy Weapons away from our Platoon squads, although I could see them doing that for AF squads...

It actually wouldn't be such a bad idea to take HW's out of the line squads. It'll make them more maneuverable since they won't have to all stay stationary in order to let the Lascannon fire. Move HW's to HW squads attached to the platoon.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Except, foot-slogging Guard are terrible in every way. Mobile Guard are Mech Guard. So the sloggers keep the Heavies, and the AFs get the 2nd Special.

Ozymandias wrote:It actually wouldn't be such a bad idea to take HW's out of the line squads. It'll make them more maneuverable since they won't have to all stay stationary in order to let the Lascannon fire. Move HW's to HW squads attached to the platoon.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

As much as my opinion counts, I really like the heavy weapons being in the line squads. Admittedly, it makes them somewhat immobile and does mean that they're deployed in a gun line, but the infantry are going to win few competions for anything but standing and blazing away, anyway. And even then, with their BS3, they can hardly be counted for that.

It'd be cool if they bring back in that old 2nd Edition rule for splitting HW teams from their parent squads, although there'd be no real point.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why *NOT* bury the Stormtroopers by making them even *more* overpriced?

'Cause they're getting a new platic kit, that's why.

BYE

Ozymandias wrote:It actually wouldn't be such a bad idea to take HW's out of the line squads.

And it would force everyone to rework their armies from scratch, requiring loads more models to be bought.

Y'know sometimes Ozy I wonder if you are a plant for GW's marketing department.

BYE

You wouldn't need to buy much, you can just re purpose squads. Where once you had 5 squads of 10 guys, now you have 4 squads of ten and a HW squad.

But thanks for the subtle insult.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

If that were to happen I'd need to buy two more boxes of Cadians, not something to look forward to. Plus it would force people into dropping a tank for a heavy weapons platoon in order to field the sudden surplus of heavy weapons.

Ozymandias wrote:But thanks for the subtle insult.

Subtle? Since when have you ever known me to be subtle about anything?

BYE

Ozymandias wrote:You wouldn't need to buy much, you can just re purpose squads. Where once you had 5 squads of 10 guys, now you have 4 squads of ten and a HW squad.

Except, that is less useful. And it assumes you can have 5 Heavies in that HW squad, when it will likely be 3 Heavies in a 6-man squad. OTOH, if we get 2 Heavy squads per Platoon, then I guess that might work. But even so, you have fewer units which can shoot a smaller number of targets, and those squads are far less durable. These aren't SM Devastator Combat squads with 2 Heavies each, you know...