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I know dreads arnt supposed to be common, but an all dread army would be seriously fun for the occasional friendly game, just as something diffrent. Just seeing 15+ dreads on the table would be worth it.

Centurion.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm going to be running a Dread and 3 Defilers in my CSM army, and I'm not selling any of the 3 Dreads for my SM army.

Newsflash: Dreads aren't supposed to be commonly fielded. AV12 helps with that. GW is a *lot* smarter than you think.

Sales are down.

Crappy units nobody wants is why.

You saying you're the exception (you like running crap) to the rule (which is, paradoxically, DON'T run crap) doesn't make the rule any less true.

GW is a *lot* stupider than you think.

Remember, rules drive sales.

Bad rules drive sales down, not up.

GW is on the ropes and has the best technology.

Smarter? In Bizarro world, perhaps.

We don't live there.

40k sales are down? Really? From what I see, 40k is on an clearly upswing due to Apocalypse and 5th Edition. When I popped into the local Bunker, they had dozens of AoBR sets for sale; a few weeks later, they're all gone.

As for what's "crap", I think the jury's out on that. You not liking something for GT play doesn't make a unit crap. While you may hold yourself out there, actually, you're not the be-all, end-all of 40k gaming.

And as for just me, BoLS recently called out Terminators, Defilers and Summoned Daemons as "spectacular values" and "stunningnly effective". Perhaps they're just better generals out there who can extract more gameplay out of these units? Yes? Yes.

And WRT rules driving sales, that appears only to apply in your tiny little GT-focused world.

Or are you next going to start claiming that Apocalypse is a failure?

Or BoLS is full of noobs pandering to the masses of fanboiz who love their glop? I don't need to consider a unit for GT play to make me want to buy it, it needs to fill several criteria--in no particular order:

Looks (meaning it can't be a piece of crap model).
Price (and I'm not poor).
Performance (and I'm a great general, I can make crap work).

Perhaps a read of GW's financials just put out will show Apocalypse and 5th edition did not make even one quarter go in the black (and since it's public information, go ahead and tell everyone how great it is--make yourself look foolish is about all the truth will suffer, unfortunately).

Rules driving sales is what is behind every miniature company out there.

If you think otherwise, well...we're back to you making yourself look foolish, because it's obvious to the rest of us that bad rules make for fewer sales.

I have never stopped claiming that Apocacrap is a failure, did you have me on ignore for 6 months or something? Outside of the UK it's a big fail.

If you honestly believe the RULES drove sales instead of VALUE, you're definitely up at night.

Please don't equate Bunker sales with Independent retailer sales, if you knew anything about the market you'd know GW's own stores aren't what is keeping GW afloat. Even they learned that lesson (perhaps by closing a few and cancelling plans to build a few more? oh right, reality again...sorry!) why can't you note it at least?

Man, the fanboi in you sure brings out my nerd rage. lol

Speaking of, how about directing some of that nerd-rage towards the topic of the thread?

Kind of ironic that this thread was moved here. My original reason for suggesting this was to encourage people to buy more Dreadnought models and to use more in game.

all in all, if i ever collected SM again i would keep 6 in my army.
but allowing units of deads would mess up the balance and cause riots withother dread users (ork, chaos, so on)

Oh and before you or anyone else goes off on me, here are the actual facts.

This is an excellent site resource, give it a whirl.

http://www.extropica.com/?p=47

Have a nice day with the stock performance.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GAW.L&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

Wow, down down down it goes...how low will it go?

Yeah, what do I know?

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2008/full_year/fiveyear.aspx

Please, stop the madness with the fanboi antics.

Oh and here's a real nice graph for you to look at:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/latest_results/Results2008/full_year/financialreview.aspx

Wow we sure are growing! Look at that flatness.

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of, how about directing some of that nerd-rage towards the topic of the thread?

Kind of ironic that this thread was moved here. My original reason for suggesting this was to encourage people to buy more Dreadnought models and to use more in game.

I bought 5 BR boxes (not because of you, because of the Ironclad Dread rules).

There, I directed some.

We need better rules--if land raiders can be horrifying, so too can dreadnoughts.

They should be.

I already own several, I'd run a pure dread force just because I could...if I could.

And it wasn't full of suck AV12 dreads.

@Stelek: How about you stop calling me "fanboi"? Kthxbai

We need better rules--if land raiders can be horrifying, so too can dreadnoughts.

stelek, points comparison?
and now lets move on to the wapons.
standard LR: TL lascannon x2, TL HB and so on.
dread: gets a basic option, or a missile launcher instead, or if you really go for it, 2 CC weps.

I already own several, I'd run a pure dread force just because I could...if I could.

And it wasn't full of suck AV12 dreads.

Great, and that would achieve nothing.

they are AV12 to be balanced.
who wants a dread that has over that, with the vulnerable rule?
that would just be stupidity.


Edit: quote box missed.

Points?

Easy.

Take a Ven Dread.

Give him a drop pod.

Add in a heavy flamer.

Is that close to what a land raider can do? No, but it's about as good as you can make a drop dread.

Cost: 10 points less than a chaos land raider.

What was that you were saying?

What was that you were saying?

i said nothing about a pod.
i said nothing of a drop dread.

so if its not as good as a LR weapon wise why should it be made better?
should every army have all vehicles / walkers upgraded to match the best one in the army? no.

it made how its made stelek, you cant pick a model you like then cry and moan about its rules hoping someone will take pity on you.
dreads are great models, if used right cause havoc, due to new rules they are harder to kill, mixed with the ven. rules they are a pain in the ass to kill
if you dont like its rules, take a LR instead.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The point of Dreads being vehicles, and vehicles existing in the first place is so that 40k isn't fantasy. If we wanted to play fanatasy, we'd do so.

Umm... what? Is that supposed to be an argument? Was that even a sentence? A coherent thought? Seriously DD, WTF mate?

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Stelek: How about you stop calling me "fanboi"? Kthxbai

He'll stop calling you one when you stop being one.

God I love it how he can't read my posts.

JD21290 wrote: they are AV12 to be balanced.

Balanced against what? They're junk units that people don't take.

BYE

BYE

Ha ha! This thread is a train WRECK! Somebody's been texting behind the wheel!

I'm not even going to shut it down, it's just too funny. I think I'll link to it in the DCM Mosh Pit.

(For the record, I think that the best solution to the dreadnought problem, at least for Loyalists, is to dramatically drop the price to, say, 40 points or so. Chaos is a whole other can o' worms.)

agreed iorek, points drop would be nice, like the ork dread maybe?
and dont drag any more mod's here
i have a habit of swearing, mixed with talking to stelek = a fair ammount of trouble

Chaos Dreads are even worse because you only get to control them for 4 turns out of every 6.

BYE

in thoery HBMC.
but it can be better, unless no enemy is in range.
and theres no way in hell you will screw up the roll 2 turns out of 6.
its all to do with luck, hence why mine used to stand there screaming and sooting the crap out of my termies most of the time.

It's all funny in this thread now.

JD21290 here's the math, bud.

1 and 6 are non-control rolls.

They occur 33% of the time.

33% of 6 turns is ______?

Correct answers on page 310.

stelek, im am not your bud, i cannot be smoked (shame)

roll a dice 6 times numbnuts.
in theory you would roll 1 of each number but in reality its all down to luck (or weighted dice)

this is weak stelek, have you got anything better? or just scraping the bottom of a barrel now?


Edit: if you can roll each number once with 6 dice then i would be using alot more bloody rattling guns.
see my point here?
rattling guns sum this up very well indeed.


as for you, i can think of a few choice words to sum you up, but since there ae mods lurking about ill leave it for now.

H.B.M.C:

You get to control them 100% of the time, there's no luck involved, only careful positioning.

JD21290 wrote:in thoery HBMC.

In probability, you mean.

JD21290 wrote:and theres no way in hell you will screw up the roll 2 turns out of 6.

Every time I roll a D6 I have a 1-in-6 chance of getting any number. This means that if I roll a dice 6 times I should get a 1, a 2, a 3, a 4, a 5 and a 6. Not in that order, and, of course, it won't happen all the time, but probability doesn'tshow what will happen, only what should happen. So in 6 turns I should roll one 1 and one 6, thereby losing control of my unit for 2 turns during a game.

This makes Chaos Dreads completely worthless, especially compared to other HS slots.

JD21290 wrote:its all to do with luck

In my experience there's no such thing as luck.

BYE

H.B.M.C:

Chaos Dreadnoughts are Elite choices, not Heavy Support.

You are correct. Well that means they're competing against Oblits. I don't think I need to expand upon that any more.

BYE

Man you know the worlds gone funny when Nurglitch is correcting HBMC.

And he's right.

Btw, Oblits are heavy.

It's defilers that you compete against with oblits.

Chaos dreads compete against terminators, which is 'bad'.

They're Heavy now?

Wow. I really hage purged most of that book from my memory. Hahahaa...

BYE

Problem with Deff Dreds there are better and more interesting units available, including MANz and Killa Kanz. They aren't the shooting platform they once were.

I know this thread is already off its rocker, but i think Dreads should get a structure point. They still have a chance of blowing up outright, but also have a 'wound' so they aren't as likely to die in one shot, regardless of the strength of what hit them.


Also, its a shame they suck, as they are cool models, and really fun to see in motion crushing things in the DoW game.

Are you talking about the unit that can take two Skorchas?

If dreads are to be fielded in squads, then they shouldn't have to keep unit coherency. This means drop pod assaults, and immobilized results don't make the squad useless.

Maybe just buy them like Imperial Guard Platoons?

Also, they should have Cyclone Missile Launchers instead of regular Missile Launchers...