more hypotheticals

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**JD21290**

cant we just be kind and end this whole bloody mess with a nuke or 2 ourselves?
ok, i sound like hitler, but why play about with a country thas just throwing idle threats about whe we can show them what happens when a nuke hits?
im sure it will make them settle down a bit, if they live that is.
im just getting fed up with all this war crap, it needs and end to it, what better way than removing the threat 100% ?

**Belphegor**

JD21290:

cant we just be kind and end this whole bloody mess with a nuke or 2 ourselves?

Yep, killing civilians is a great way to give people way to stop conflicts before they pass the 'threat' phase.
Nothing says "Stop Fighting" like killing someone's grandma with a thermonuclear detonation.
It's like genocide, but no trains are involved.
(^ just in case someone missed the tone, this is sarcasm)

**lord_sutekh**

"Nuke 'em till they glow" only works in Republican slash-fiction. Commiting attrocities of our own just escalates things to places to which we don't want to go.

**Kilkrazy**

Invading Iraq was supposed to stop Al Qaeda. Nearly everyone now recognises that it helped them.

**Wolfstan**

Nobody seens to understand the region at all. Most of the Arab contries would take the route of self destruction, rather than be seen to be weak in the eyes of their neighbours. If they show any weakness their standing in that region will be deminished and they could suffer attacks from a rival power. So please stop waving the stick at the Middle East. Until the US keeps Israel at arms length, and has more of a neutral relationship then you will never have a chance of peace. The Arab nations need feel that the US's intervention in the region is genuinely neutral, not motivated by Israeli expats using the US as a stick to beat them.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

To both : DO you think that you could stop provoking the Middle East with your Policies for 5 minutes and see if they leave off in return?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Kilkrazy wrote:Invading Iraq was supposed to stop Al Qaeda. Nearly everyone now recognises that it helped them.

Balls, balls balls.

Iraq had precisely nothing to do with Al Qaeda. Indeed, Hussein, being somewhat selfish, had a large number of their operatives executed for being up to high jinx in his sovereign state. There never was any real evidence linking the two, and it was just Dubya once again wheeling out the Boogeyman of the decade to scare Americans into Patriotism and backing an utterly pointless war.

**Da Boss**

Yeah I think Killkrazy knows that.

**Kilkrazy**

Yes I do know that.

Stopping Al Qaeda was one of a variety of excuses given for invading Iraq, every single one of which turned out to be false.

Remember the dodgy dossier, the Nigerian yellowcake, and the mobile bioweapons labs?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Nigerian Yellowcake?

Rather missed that one? Is that anything like the Drug Cake? You know, the one Custard Gannets eat, and which made that one girl cough up her own pelvis

**Kilkrazy**

Yellowcake is the technical name for raw Uranium ore.

There was a story circulated that Saddam was buying yellowcake from Nigeria. It turned out to be based on fabricated evidence.

And yeah, Cake the drug is a scourge. The way it distorts your time sense by affecting the Shatner's Bassoon organ is the cause of a lot of traffic accidents.

**Wolfstan**

Saddam was your classic tyrant, he wasn't there for anybody but himself. There was no way that he would of wanted anything to do with the religious nutters, unless it was to tweak the nose of the west. Even then he wasn't stupid, he knew that if he'd helped Al Qaeda he'd get a pounding. However there was no way he was going to show any kind of weakness, which was his downfall. He wouldn't give the US evidence to prove otherwise, so this gave GB the excuse to attack. It's the mentality of the area.

**reds8n**

Kilkrazy wrote:.

And yeah, Cake the drug is a scourge. The way it distorts your time sense by affecting the Shatner's Bassoon organ is the cause of a lot of traffic accidents.

Indeed, that poor sod who thought he had an hour to cross the road.

Remember kids say NO to Joss Acklands Spunky backpack !

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

And remember, although their is no evidence, it is a scientific fact that Paedophiles share more DNA with a CRAB than a HUMAN.

**reds8n**

What would it take for you to legalise marijuana ?

Will you open ALL the files with regards to UFOs etc and/or the Kennedy assassinations ?

@ Mr. MDG : Indeed-- remember that crafty bugger who disguised himself as a school ! Terrible ! We should perhaps launch people like him into space or something.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I'm more in favour for Police chasing them into Power lines, where they can die, squealing like a Pig in a war.

**reds8n**

That heavy electricity falling from old powerlines and hurting people is a scandal and they should have fixed it by now. Realistically we should be able to prevent flattened electrons from escaping.

**youbedead**

perhaps people forget that even if nuclear weapons were used against us a missile would never be effective as every single western nation has effective anti-ballistic missile capability

**dogma**

An ICBM (the type of missile the US would worry about) is an entirely separate matter from less impressive ballistic missiles. They move much, much faster. Are much more difficult to actually course check (unless you know the launch site before-hand). And benefit from the radar scattering effects of high heat on reentry. Not to mention the problems we would face if the missile featured a MIRV warhead (though those are expensive and difficult to produce).

We are developing the systems necessary for such protection, but certainly do not possess them. Nor would they be by any means 100% effective.

**Miguelsan**

Iran won´t supply a nuclear warhead to any terrorist group any more than the US would. If you support a terrorist group it´s because you want to warfare by proxy to keep your hands "clean" so if you supply nuclear weapons to your pet terrorist you either involve your military to make sure that the warhead is used on the objective you want (that might not be the objective the terrorist want) and become directly involved and suffer the consecuences or even worse allow the terrorist to run free with a nuclear weapon that they can detonate anyplace they want, not a good idea you might want NY nuke to threaten the US and the terrorist might decide that they prefer La Mecca to rid Islam of the false belivers or that Teheran would make a nice crater so they could try their hands at governing.

M.

**dogma**

Speaking of the hypothetical.

Another Khatami Presidency could be instrumental in securing a positive solution to the Iranian issue. Even if the Council of Guardians doesn't vet him any rhetoric that he puts out in the course of his campaign could help to assuage some of the tension caused by popular perception of the Iranian extremist bend.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Thing is, it seems the people of Iran are alright for the most part, and want peace as much as the next man.

IT's just Governments that want war. Probably safe in the knowledge they are largely safe from the worst of it.

**Frazzled**

What if we eliminated all restrictions and flooded them with cheap Barney and Hanna Montana goods? Thats why the Iranian president is so angry, he can't get good tickets for Hanna Montana...

**AgeOfEgos**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Thing is, it seems the people of Iran are alright for the most part, and want peace as much as the next man.

IT's just Governments that want war. Probably safe in the knowledge they are largely safe from the worst of it.

The one thing to remember about Iran is the large portion of their population is very young and very 'Americanized'. It's been said that while America experienced a baby boom, the Iranians are experiencing a baby boom-erang. If we can wait out Iran it's own population should clear the old guard out;

**Frazzled**

Note the 15-19 and younger age groups. The Frazzled Unified Hanna Montana Theory of Iran Grumpiness is vindicated!

**Kilkrazy**

That is exactly why many problem nations can be dealt with best by a policy of Let Well Alone and gentle, hands off diplomacy.

Cracking the whip plays right into the hands of the hard-line nationalists.

**Frazzled**

That can be the case. I have nothing against against telling Iran the theory of MADD and then selling them MAD magazine.

**dogma**

Making obvious overtures towards our willingness to use nuclear force in retaliation to an Iranian attack is not likely to have a positive outcome. They know we have the capability, a reminder is simple saber rattling. What we need to do is get them to see the benefits in opening their society. Remind them that they can't hold on to power forever, and that the only way to ensure to preservation of their values is to leave them to a free, cultural market.

**Kilkrazy**

In my opinion threatening Iran and other regimes in any way simply soldifies national feeling in the country behind the government.

The young Iranians can easily see the advantages of opening their society by themselves. The west makes a better example by setting its house in order and not interfering with other countries.

**Frazzled**

dogma wrote:Making obvious overtures towards our willingness to use nuclear force in retaliation to an Iranian attack is not likely to have a positive outcome. They know we have the capability, a reminder is simple saber rattling. What we need to do is get them to see the benefits in opening their society. Remind them that they can't hold on to power forever, and that the only way to ensure to preservation of their values is to leave them to a free, cultural market.

Its not saber rattling. Its: 1) simple truth; 2) the same exact thing we did with the USSR and Iran; 3) done privately and published non-dscriptly so that they may save face.
If, as you say, they are rational actors, they will understand how this works.