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redstarone wrote:

I hate to do this but..

What you still fail to grasp is the fact ive had more important matters then models during the month of dec. and now jan. I dropped the costs because I KNOW i was going beyond what is acceptable.

So In the end, you paid nothing. Stop trying to act like it was because you were nice about it. You sent me a PM on the 21st I think saying you would be paying for the shipping and half anyways. You havent done it and have said because of how you were let down, you wont. What I fail to understand is how you think you have the right to not pay for shipping. You made me pay for insurance, go collect it and pay me my shipping money or simply stop acting like you paid me or acting like you were the nice guy by offering to pay.

To be frank, I did not offer to pay because I'm a nice guy (although I am). I offered to pay, per my email response;

Also, I might add that while the free conversion certainly was an apt offer in terms of customer satisfaction, keep in mind I stated I would take nothing free but send half of the conversion price when it arrived regardless of tardiness. I did this precisely to avoid the following statement;


i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.

I was quite afraid this might happen and didn't want the free price…to further add to the tardiness of the commission. To explain further, while I am not good with the greenstuff, I can complete projects in a lengthy time period thus part of the allure of paid commissions is time and effort saved.

I didn't want the free commission to be used to justify whatever date you decided to send the model (Which you are now attempting to do). I never asked for the commission for free and refused it when offered in mid Dec. (A month after you received the model).

I explained why I refuse to pay for shipping. It was poorly packed/shipped.

Hmmm...

I've discussed starting a few conversions with 'redstarone'/Conversion Corner, and so far, everything has been good, courteous and smooth.

We're still in the planning stages, but still, everything is OK to date.

It appears as if you two might have to agree to disagree?

AOE , unless there is some sort of personal vendetta in this,
that should be the end of it. You wasted your time, he wasted his money, if anything this is now neutral.

What else do you want him to do? I mean ok you dont feel bad about his family, or you dont believe, i dont know.

But why do you insist on ruining his reputation when he atleast did his part of paying to ship the item back to you?

LunaHound wrote:AOE , unless there is some sort of personal vendetta in this,
that should be the end of it. You wasted your time, he wasted his money, if anything this is now neutral.

What else do you want him to do? I mean ok you dont feel bad about his family, or you dont believe, i dont know.

But why do you insist on ruining his reputation when he atleast did his part of paying to ship the item back to you?

He doesnt believe me. If he did he would feel bad if he is indeed a so called nice guy as he puts it.

Big red flag, the commission is now free. This may seem like customer tact and surely his trail of broken promises warrant a discount…but I’m afraid this will lay the foundation for further delays (It’s free dude!). So I email back and assure him I will pay for at least half the commission and only accept a small cut due to tardiness. Cool he says…and on we go to a disaster. He emails stating that his fiancée had been rushed to the hospital on November 2nd, due to a reaction that she had to medication. She is in the early stages of the 2nd trimester and might miscarry. As a nurse, hey I completely understand and assure him of that. Now keep in mind, I’m really an easy going guy that understands these situations. However, his conversion website had been updated on 12/14, 12/26, 12/28, 12/29 with other commission projects…yet I still received no model or pictures. What am I to say to this situation however? Even if it happened 3 days after he promised to ship? Of course, I can’t…as real life trumps models in every fashion even if this terrible disaster happened after a trail of broken promises. So…I once again assure him no problem and that I wished his family the best. No requests for updates, just well wishes.

Right here he clearly says why he is upset.
1) I put him on the back burner as I was updating the site with other commissions.
Reason why: Those were commissions taken BEFORE HIS. Ive been open since august. He came around in november. Those were things from before him clearly. It was my huge mistake to even start on his work before finishing the other ones without due dates. A mistake that wont ever happen again.

i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.

When I said this I was refering to the fact I started on his model as soon as I got it, putting OTHER people on the back burner. When I then had to go back to other peoples stuff, thats when he got upset and ASSUMED I was blowing him off when in reality, he was waiting in order as the commission came in. It wasnt some kind of ploy to take an the extra time until it was shipped. It was me being A NICE GUY to not charge when if I was in his shoes, wouldnt want to pay and as another poster said, would simply want a refund. I give him the only thing I could, the completed model and asked for nothing in return even when he kept offering to pay.

Now I fully admit I made several mistakes. Again which is why I offered to do it free of charge. I was also having MAJOR real life problems and problems at the 9-5. His model was COMPLETED on or around the end of december. He knows this as I told him in a message that I finished trimming the axe head and its now done. Then Sarah lost our child. That wasnt even 3 1/2 weeks ago.

So on the 20th he asks where is stuff is. I DID get upset and made another mistake by doing it. His stuff was shipped on monday of this week. He recieved it thursday and then waited until this post to even tell me about how it was damaged and how he wasnt happy with the work and all the other things in his first post. I had emailed him everyday asking for an update. Now I see he was busy.

All in all, this seems to me to indeed be a personal vendetta against me because he clearly thinks I pushed him back and back and did others work first. If that really was happening, I would understand why he could get upset about it. But thats not even close to what happened. If its not a vendetta, why isnt the tital of the thread, "bade trade - deal with caution" or something like that. Not simply, avoid my services. But like ive said, im fine with whatever he things is true. The only thing that really upset me has been cleared up, and thats the date my son died. (although he once again put november instead of the proper month..)

Just wait for Rick to pop in and say how long he has waited as he understand real life family problems trump models any day of the week.

i gotta go with Luna on this one...
at this point this all seems really petty and ridiculous...
AOE you can hold your grudge against conversion corner and wasted time and redstar one can stay pissed about having to do the work and shipping for free...
with any more negative response, i can see a more justified protest to conversion corners work...

but really, over all the misleadings and lies and date changes and excuses yadda yadda yadda...
what you are arguing over is a big metal toy soldier.

This is all one more reason why I'll stay happy with my own modeling, painting and conversions. It may not be anywhere near golden daemon quality, but at least if there are problems, I have nobody but myself (and occasionally my cats) to blame.

One last thing i want to clarify if i may.

1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?

yes, i've had to wait for my stuff. i've been pushed back for others.
but, i also went into this without a firm deadline.
i feel like fenrir31 does about the issue. i've been nothing but satisfied
with Matt's work.
after what AoE has said i feel he is being petty about "Toys". mainly
for the fact he's paid nothing. he's not satisfied, but he's also is out
nothing but his time and some gray hairs. not to mention he's got a
vehicle in BT he can express his experience. this feels over the top
to me.
and lastly, as a father of three, if i had anything happen to any of my
children, i don't think i'd really care about opinions and deadlines. i'd be
suprised if i could function at all. "Toys" would definately be somewhere
on a far back burner.

LunaHound wrote:One last thing i want to clarify if i may.

1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?

Myabe you should read the whole post. Im not even in anyway involved in this, but from reading the starting post, i can already answer those questions. Give it a read.

What i dont get from redstarone is, after that tragic event happend,(im sorry about that) why were there updates of other models and not his? i couldve misread, but thats the question the first popped up in my head while reading.

LunaHound wrote:One last thing i want to clarify if i may.

1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?

1) IT was agreed that he would pay 60 dollars for 6 hours of work at the end of the project before it was sent. I failed to proved the pics so sent anyways. The pictures that were posted that night and shown to him, he said "fantastic". I do have that message saved along with every other one. But because it took longer then I thought, I offered to do it free. Also note that at the start there was no deadline at all. He then later said he had a tourney coming up and could I get it done by then. I said yes and after real life probs failed to reach it.

It was understood it was free from about half way in. Maybe 6 weeks ago. WHILE Sarah was in and out of the hospital.

2) I had got opinions from tusted sources to me, i.e. friends, that I should send him a new model, like i recieved it and simply ship that back. I decided against it as thats kinda fishy. So instead I sent the completed model NOT expecting money except for shipping since he wanted insurance on it. Although it should be pointed out he said MANY times that he would pay half anyways. Which I never expected he would.

alarmingrick wrote:yes, i've had to wait for my stuff. i've been pushed back for others.
but, i also went into this without a firm deadline.
i feel like fenrir31 does about the issue. i've been nothing but satisfied
with Matt's work.
after what AoE has said i feel he is being petty about "Toys". mainly
for the fact he's paid nothing. he's not satisfied, but he's also is out
nothing but his time and some gray hairs. not to mention he's got a
vehicle in BT he can express his experience. this feels over the top
to me.
and lastly, as a father of three, if i had anything happen to any of my
children, i don't think i'd really care about opinions and deadlines. i'd be
suprised if i could function at all. "Toys" would definately be somewhere
on a far back burner.

I feel if anyone should be mad at me its Rick. Pretty much the first real client and watched many projects drop before his. As such, ill work for the man till the end of time. All because he UNDERSTANDS real life family problems and doesnt seem to just ignore the major fact on why things arent shipped super fast.

Plus no where on my site does it say, super fast turn around..

enmitee wrote:

Myabe you should read the whole post. Im not even in anyway involved in this, but from reading the starting post, i can already answer those questions. Give it a read.

What i dont get from redstarone is, after that tragic event happend,(im sorry about that) why were there updates of other models and not his? i couldve misread, but thats the question the first popped up in my head while reading.

Because those were people freaking out and not caring at all about my problems that had to be completed as they came BEFORE Age's stuff. I will point out there was no due date. A major problem in how I used to run things. Once they came up with a due date, i had no choice but to finish thier work first. Otherwise they would be made about me working on his stuff.

Now if your referring to the most recent update on my site... look closely. Its a lord of battle made as a memorial piece for my passed son. Its not something im doing for someone nor am I making any money off if it.

Also, im horrible about updating the site in order of how commissions are recieved or even posted.

The problem again was I started his work to soon and because of that he expected it ASAP. I gave dates that I would try to ship on but combined with a 9-5, Sarah being sick, things got pushed back. Again, why I didnt expect to get paid and offered to do just that.

warpcrafter wrote:This is all one more reason why I'll stay happy with my own modeling, painting and conversions. It may not be anywhere near golden daemon quality, but at least if there are problems, I have nobody but myself (and occasionally my cats) to blame.

Amen to this. Trust only in yourself.

As a moderator I can take no position on the rights and wrongs of this argument.

I have said before, that Dakka is not a court of appeal for the Internet model soldier community.

Both sides have had a good chance to put their cases and readers can make up their own minds based on what has been presented.

Since this deal was arranged through Bartertown, that is the best place to continue the argument if desired.

In my personal opinion, it would be best for both parties to drop it. I am sorry for the trouble and bad feelings that have been raised. I do not believe they will be resolved by continuing.

I will now lock the thread since it cannot go anywhere useful.