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The most efficient thing is simply volume of fire.

Assuming 5 on 5 and no lightning claws:
The glaring flaw in Rough Riders is the one shot lance. I5 S5 power weapon or no, they should hit at best 5 times wound 4 and kill 3. The terminators should kill between 2 and 3 in return.

Good luck means you've tied up a terminator squad long enough to be able to shoot at it in your turn after a 5:1 return on points. But how many more saves would guardsmen have caused shooting? Equivalent points values skew this even further towards the guard.

There's always the option of tarpitting them with a commissar and 50 screaming LD10 conscripts at almost the same points value. You even get a wall of cover saves from those 50 bodies!

leman russ turret traverses quietly.... range aquired.....ordinance loaded....taking aim...... BOOOM. S8 instakills termies and makes them use invuln saves. horay leman russ MBT =)

No they still have a the 2+ battle cannon is only ap 3

S8 vs T4 causes instant death which denies normal armor saves....

I thought instand death work when they take a wound, they don't take wounds until after saves.

Anyway, the best thing is for your opponent to deepstrike termies at you early in the game. Have a demolisher somewhere and loads of lasguns elsewhere. They're likly to enter away from the demolisher (if they don't enjoy!) and end up in rapid fire range of your lasguns. That many shots dispatches them within 2 turns usualy. I tend to use heavy weapons fire on more suitable targets such as tanks. If the lasguns fail just charge them with a squad a turn, you can afford to loose a few points for points. If you do wipe them out in the first turn (not as difficult as it sounds) it also has the benefit of scarring the s@#[ out of your opponent and makes them think twice before sending those tactical squads towards your objective. I always back the demolisher up with at least two other tanks (a leman russ and usually hellhound). Once you have three or more tanks you give your opponents too many choices to shoot at and they either split fire doing minimal damage or concentrate meaning you loose a tank but still have a juicy cannon left to deal with power armour.

I like guard these days

S8 vs T4 causes instant death which denies normal armor saves....

No it does not. Instant Death affects multiwound models or those with feel no pain. Terminator will still get their 2+ save against S8 AP3.

Winterman is correct. The battlecannon is AP3 so Terminators still get their nice 2+ save.

bloodletters are the best anti armour unit IMO
allthough for tougher things like thisters then flamers kill him pretty well.

yea i was wrong. thats the way i learned tho which means iv been playing it wrong since i started 40k. oops =(

Zoot wrote:I have never really had any problems with terminators in any of my games, despite their 2+ armor their invulnerable save is pitiful. Never use bolters or lasguns on them as they'll just save the lot (unless you have a huge weight in numbers) on average one with die from every 6 armor saves they're forced to take (and if you cound 2/3s of your shots are going to hit, 1/2 of those 2/3s or 1/3 of those 2/3s are going to wound), so it's usually a waste of shots for me.

"Never use bolters or lasguns on them"

That is the worst advice I've ever heard regarding terminators. Especially nowadays that the majority have a 3+ invulnerable save.

If your opponent brings only one single landraider, it might be good to use every lascannon on it then the termies, but if your opponent is smart and brings multiple tanks/walkers then lascannons need to blow up things bolters cannot blow up.

Bolters and Lasguns are specifically great against assault termies. And non-assault termies aren't really a threat.