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Most Bland:
Dark Angels
Chaos Marines

H.B.M.C. wrote:You beg to differ... and then state that you miss that Codex? What... what were you trying to say just then DJ66? That the last Codex was very powerful?

Yes. We know that.

That it had power builds?

Yeah... ok. We know that too.

I'm... confused. You're disagreeing with me, but I can't see how, as at no point do you attempt to contradict me.

I guess I wasn't clear with my point.

Under the old codex, there were several competitive CSM builds.

Under the new codex, there is only one with minor variations (i.e. how many lash princes or plague marine squads you take). Any HQ choice that is not either a special character or a lash prince is drastically less effective than not only the other choices offered to you, but other HQs in just about any army (compared to an Imperial Space Marine, they stink). They didn't even do the courtesy of saying "Hey, all the imperial space marines are encouraged to use their nifty special characters regardless of what chapter is being played. Why don't you, CSM, the galactic hodge podge band of roaming vagabond warriors, do something similiar in order to keep some sort of theme prevalent without screening out your best HQ choices."

You can't make a competitive tzeentch force as it is too expensive. Khorne won't give you enough firepower, or you will end up relying on Land Raiders or other similiar, over priced options like terminators (which I am not willing to do especially at lower point levels). Slaanesh could work if you're able to get your hands on lots of sonic weapons and some good luck. You can spam plague marines, but if you run into dark reapers, plasma cannon heavy lists or horde tyranids you are toast. Basic CSMs are ok, but if you take them exclusively you'd be better off with your Imperial counterparts. At least in the old codex they were cheaper (and rightfully so without ATSKNF). And you used to have incentive to take those over cult troops with armies like Iron Warriors and Night Lords altering the FOC. But, there was an incentive to have cult troops and a good theme too! If you used to like playing Daemon bomb, you had to start a new army because CSM daemons are awful now. No CSM force will be truely competitive in tournament play except for Lash/Plague/Oblits spam. That's pretty weak compared to a codex that could produce 4 to 5 hard tournament builds.

So I don't think that the new codex still has power buildS plural. There is only one, and that makes me sad.

DJ66 wrote:I guess I wasn't clear with my point.

Under the old codex, there were several competitive CSM builds.

Under the new codex, there is only one with minor variations (i.e. how many lash princes or plague marine squads you take). Any HQ choice that is not either a special character or a lash prince is drastically less effective than not only the other choices offered to you, but other HQs in just about any army (compared to an Imperial Space Marine, they stink).

Ok, fair enough, that I can accept and agree with.

Conclusion: Codex 'Chaos' Space Marines is a joke Codex, the list allows only one viable tournament build, allows plenty of really uninteresting and dull builds (compared to the plethora of choices from the last book, however unbalanced some of them may have been), and Generic Daemons are a complete affront to Chaos players everywhere, especially those of us with Word Bearer armies, like me.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

DJ66 wrote:I guess I wasn't clear with my point.

Under the old codex, there were several competitive CSM builds.

Under the new codex, there is only one with minor variations (i.e. how many lash princes or plague marine squads you take). Any HQ choice that is not either a special character or a lash prince is drastically less effective than not only the other choices offered to you, but other HQs in just about any army (compared to an Imperial Space Marine, they stink).

Ok, fair enough, that I can accept and agree with.

Conclusion: Codex 'Chaos' Space Marines is a joke Codex, the list allows only one viable tournament build, allows plenty of really uninteresting and dull builds (compared to the plethora of choices from the last book, however unbalanced some of them may have been), and Generic Daemons are a complete affront to Chaos players everywhere, especially those of us with Word Bearer armies, like me.

I concur with your points as well. Daemon bomb used to be a fun strategy. And now if you put a MoT on your Chaos Lord to mimic a chaplain's iron halo you hear "B-b-but that's not FLUFFYzzzspamgodlfkwargarbbll!"

If the DA special rules hadnt been taken away (hunt the fallen, space wolf rivalry, no allies, "fearless" addons for squads ect) maybe they would be as fun as they had been. Yea they added some damn cool models/characters that made the army more specialized, but they took away one of the main characters! Yea cause an army whos whole story is about capturing their corrupted brothers doesn't need their main interrogator-Chaplin character.

But necrons are pretty bland. I mean one tank? really?

I not understand how people think Necrons are bland. These beings are million year old, life hating, metallic skeletons with super advanced weaponry. I DO NOT want tons of options for Necrons. Why? Because they do not have individualism, just like the Tyranids. Short of the C'tan, these metal monsters only have one purpose: kill all living things.

Putting more options in will kill how unique this army is. Hell, I remember when they first came out all we had were Lords/Immortals/Destroyers/Warriors and Scarabs. The army/rules were nothing I had ever seen and I immediately set forth to collect one. Now that more tombs are starting to wake up, you may see a little bit more units/vehicles, but going too far will ultimately kill the uniqueness of this army.

If you want diversity/individualism/more options for Troops/more vehicles/more different units, etc; look for it in everyother army in Warhammer 40k. The uniqueness about this army is it's lack of diversity. Like someone previously stated, thinking about this armies background has much more weight than the diversity of models in the army.

So please reconsider wanting flashy toys/individualism/more variety, because that will ultimately be the downfall of this army. Like Chaos, GW stomped the hell out of the older book by replacing it with mediocre units/rules. I hope they do not kill Necrons by boosting up their options/units too much.

My vote goes to Chaos being bland. All of us lost alot of units and cool background/rules with this new book. It's very unappealing but most of us have moved on. (Still comforting my Thousand Sons a couple nights a week.....)

byteboy, you have to admit necreons ARE bland. Even if being bland works for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

combatmedic wrote:

But necrons are pretty bland. I mean one tank? really?

Yes, necrons may have only 1 tank, but c'mon! That thing is harder to kill then a land raider full of carnie-riding termies!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any army can be interesting if you make them that way!
This doesn't just have to be limited by the rules, a couple of conversions or a good paint job can make all the difference. Now, if you want to win with that army you have to be either a)smart or b)lucky or c)lucky or even d)lucky.