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They should have let Terminator alone after the second movie...

Panic wrote:yeah,
The plot is full of problems. I think I have to go on a fan site to make sense of it all.

let us know if you find a good one.

i geuss anything with a non-sequential roveing time plot will never quite be accurate

I can totally suspend disbelief for the sci fi and fantasy genres as far as what can and can't be done in that universe. You have to do that to enjoy those genres I think.

What most people objected to about Terminator Craptation was that the *entire* plot was a series of coincidences. Generally, I'll leave it at that.

...But specifically for me: I've hated almost every villain ever. Hardly any of them are evil enough or smart enough. Why would Skynet only have one Terminator there to kill Connor after they went through this overly intricate plan to get him inside? Why would they not have an army of Ahnolds there? Why do none of those Ahnolds have guns? Why would they not just have the entire f*ing place rigged with nerve gas? It's a f*ing supercomputer--it should be more logical than that.

I liked the first 2 Terminators, I really did. It was easy to understand and everyone's actions made sense. Even though the movies weren't particularly cerebral, they made sense and achieved a real sense of terror when the robots seemed completely unstoppable. Salvation just doesn't make any sense.

What's the whole point of Marcus in the first place? If they really wanted to kill John then why not just program him to explode or something when they take him to their base and kill all of them while they were at it?

Bah...robots! Look at the robots! And flying dropship things that look like Tau devilfish.

I really enjoyed it. It wasn't as good as T2, but it was still rather enjoyable. Then again, I'm one of the few people who liked Terminator 3, so you may as well ignore the previous statement.

I saw UP! yesterday and holy crap, best movie of the year. Easily made me forget the sour taste of bad that this movie gave me.

this whole summer movie season has been 100% meh for me. not great, not horrible, just completely middle of the road. star trek, wolverine, terminator... all things that might be worth the $7.50 matinee price i paid but definitely won't be in my dvd collection. gi joe and transformers don't look that promising either but i'll see them out of nostalgia.

Well, I'm sorry it wasn't a work of Shakespeare, Keates or Burns. BUt it is a movie about skin covered Robots trying to wipe out mankind.

And you were expecting something profound, earth shattering and thought provoking because?

Did anyone notice the truck during the LA part of the movie looked like an Ork Trukk?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Well, I'm sorry it wasn't a work of Shakespeare, Keates or Burns. BUt it is a movie about skin covered Robots trying to wipe out mankind.

And you were expecting something profound, earth shattering and thought provoking because?

T1 and T2 actually were that. The whole time travel and the paradoxes that it brings. Cameron's skills at movie making. Brad Fiedel's way of making music which sticks in your head but also creeps you out. T3 was nothing more but a comedic parody on the second movie and the fourth one, from what I've seen is sort of...well it's cool but nothing more than that. Nothing revolutionary. What happened to the HK Tank? Mototerminators? I can get Hunter Killer motors, but Mototerminators?

By the way, I found a really cool fansite, check this one out: http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/

This is set early on during the War. I'm guessing the Tankbots, the ones with the deathlight, will come in later in the series.

Certainly the resistance appeared worse armed, and seeing as how the T-800 is still brand spanky new, the laser guns will also appear later on. I quite like this gradual evolution of technology.

I know plasma technology hasn't been around yet (exception on that giant Transformer with the mototerminators in his chest), but I don't get why the HK tank couldn't be in there, that was such a cool beast! I mean we got HK flyers, Marcus (a better infiltrator Terminator than the T800), giant robot, but no HK tank?

I see the HK Tank as being an evolution of the T-1, the tracked one seen briefly in Salvation and Terminator 3. Similar design, just upscaled.

But also, there was no real pitched battle between the Machines and the Resistance, so less reason to show one.

I really enjoyed it, much better than Star Trek or Wolverine.

But I went expecting a post apocalyptic man vs robots kill fest. Which is exactly what it was.

Mosg sums up my major dislike of it.

The first two movies had limited skynet control shown, because skynet was limited in the amount of termies it could send back at a time.

This made sense, this made for an interesting movie.

In salvation, Skynet was completely, and utterly UNLIMITED in the actions it could take, yet chose ones worse than most made by the original series batman villains. I was shocked it did not tell it's full attack plans to Connor, before leaving him unattended dangling over a pit.

It let him walk into the building, then activated a single t1000 with no weapons, and left them unmonitored while it continued to try to beat its bejeweled highscore.


Seriously, what.

Delephont wrote:However, as a true table top geek, I couldn't help but feel this would make an awesome Table Top wargame. Humans vs the Machines. With such a rich tapestry of characters and machines it would literally run itself.

I wonder if any miniatures companies will eventually take up the Franchise.....Corvus Belli, Privateer Press.....

Wouldn't Guard vs Necron be close enough? Just come up with a scenario for it. Maybe let the Necrons borrow some vehicles from some other races as long as it fits in with the other machines from the series and in place of Monoliths.

I thought it was really good. A few corney moments but overall a decent film. It had Ham Tyler in it too so that was a bonus. I liked the arnold cameo too. I wasn't a fan of the little girl that never talked though.

I am also one of the few that enjoyed 3.(honestly I cant explain why, I konw its not THAt good) I havnt seen Salvation yet, but Im thinking Ill like it.

I had planned on seeing it until a friend that went told me it was just more of the same as the previous movies but with less logic.
It's too bad when you think about the money that goes into something like these movies.

Oh but they make money right? Thats why the do it.

I know it's just a product and that making money is the priority here, but what ever happened to the "art" of filmmaking?

Ifalna wrote:Mosg sums up my major dislike of it.

The first two movies had limited skynet control shown, because skynet was limited in the amount of termies it could send back at a time.

This made sense, this made for an interesting movie.

In salvation, Skynet was completely, and utterly UNLIMITED in the actions it could take, yet chose ones worse than most made by the original series batman villains. I was shocked it did not tell it's full attack plans to Connor, before leaving him unattended dangling over a pit.

It let him walk into the building, then activated a single t1000 with no weapons, and left them unmonitored while it continued to try to beat its bejeweled highscore.


Seriously, what.

You are talking about the Super Computer which decided the best way to protect mankind was to wipe mankind out? I mean, granted, problem largely solved, but seriously. Come on. Skynet may well be horrifically powerful, but it also appears to be pretty thick in the 'how to maintain my survival' stakes.

As for the USB Bike Kidnap bit. Easy enough to do. Overwrite it's mind, set a destination, hold on for dear life. Done and done. Just tell it where to go and it will get you there.

Where do you get the idea that it thought that it would protect mankind by wiping it out? Yes Skynet was designed as a military system, however it became self aware at some point. The humans working on it got scared and tried to unplug it, in it's defence Skynet fired it's missiles at the targets in Russia who in return retaliated by shooting missiles at the US.

Skynet wasn't trying to protect mankind here, it was simply trying to save itself!

I kind of like the Terminator series because SkyNet isn't the over the top god-like entity that AI tends to be portrayed as in fiction. We're talking about an AI who wipes out most of humanity by starting a nuclear war with weapons that humans built, and then slowly and unsuccessfully trying to win the war from there with the weird crap it builds itself - which are mostly robots designed to function like extra strong slow people(!!).

As for the plot, you cannot drill down into the recursive time-travel Terminator plot without it becoming completely ridiculous. Case in point:

If SkyNet knows in 2018 that Kyle Reese is John Connor's father - then SkyNet can prevent John Connor from being born by just not creating time travel devices (with the silly idea to kill John Connor). No need to send robots back in time after the dude's mother, just don't make time travel devices for his father to go back in time with - ta dah.

The plot always makes me think of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and the line in Jail "Remember... Trash cans! Woah". And it's been this dumb since the first movie.

Still enjoyed it though. Post-apocalyptic robot on human action ftw.

Films that are made to focus on the "art" side of things are indie films that no one will pay to watch unless one of their friends is in it, and they seem to all be about gay cowboys eating pudding.

Well, I fully understand the logic thing, and I agree there would have been 100 ways for Skynet to succeed in its mission of killing John Conner.

I also agree, that it was pretty silly for Skynet to not simply shoot Kyle Reece on sight when it found him.....

Yes, yes yes....you guys are right, but, and its a big but....arn't most films like that? Aliens, Predator, The 300, Star Wars......it could all be done soo much easier if.....but thats not the point of the whole thing is it?

I think alot of the haters here, were expecting a lot more movie than those that enjoyed it, I think thats where the problem lies.

Ahh.. Hold on. What if Skynet is playing the long game?

If it has a time machine, is it not entirely possible it has sent the information relevant to final victory back in time to forewarn itself of which path succeeded? If so, then deviation from this assured path would be dismissed. Thus, you do not kill Kyle Reese, because he has to go back, father John Connor etc.

We are assuming both the Resistance and the Machines have the same level of future awareness....

Ifalna + Railguns = easy summation of my thoughts about the problems with this one and the greatness of T1 and T2.

The first two were great movies. I skipped T3 because I heard it was garbage. Salvation was mildly entertaining, in that it had cool FX, fun references to the first two, and a reasonably charismatic and interesting new lead. The unpleasant surprises were a) that Bale turned in a pretty lame performance, b) that Danny Elfman phoned in such a boring score [did anyone else notice how compelling the previews were- the way they used the original theme? Why would you dump it?] and c) that the plot was such utter junk.

Writing, folks. It’s not too complicated. To make a good movie you need good writing and good acting. Everything else is secondary.

PS: Very glad I saw this as a matinee and saw Star Trek immediately after. Much better movie, even with one absolutely ridiculous plot hole.

PPS: Moving thread to OT.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I really enjoyed it, much better than Star Trek or Wolverine.

But I went expecting a post apocalyptic man vs robots kill fest. Which is exactly what it was.

Wow we got different things out of the movie.

And I also rate this movie above Wolverine but way below Star Trek.

I went expecting a post apocalyptic man vs robots kill fest. (ala Starship Troopers for man vs bugs)
Which is exactly what it wasn't! All the fights were one on ones, with the humans winning by being gammy instead of being smart.

Moz wrote:I kind of like the Terminator series because SkyNet isn't the over the top god-like entity that AI tends to be portrayed as in fiction. We're talking about an AI who wipes out most of humanity by starting a nuclear war with weapons that humans built, and then slowly and unsuccessfully trying to win the war from there with the weird crap it builds itself - which are mostly robots designed to function like extra strong slow people(!!).

As for the plot, you cannot drill down into the recursive time-travel Terminator plot without it becoming completely ridiculous. Case in point:

If SkyNet knows in 2018 that Kyle Reese is John Connor's father - then SkyNet can prevent John Connor from being born by just not creating time travel devices (with the silly idea to kill John Connor). No need to send robots back in time after the dude's mother, just don't make time travel devices for his father to go back in time with - ta dah.

The plot always makes me think of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and the line in Jail "Remember... Trash cans! Woah". And it's been this dumb since the first movie.

Still enjoyed it though. Post-apocalyptic robot on human action ftw.

I just bought and watched Terminator with my son (who was watching it for the first time) and Reese tells Sarah that records of John Connor's origins were destroyed in the war - only the name and location of his mother survived. Skynet didn't know that Reese was John's pop and would have no knowledge that John would send Reese back in time (who did so in order to perpetuate his own existence) so that was it's solution to a troublesome thorn in it's side: create a time machine to snuff him out before he was born. The real question here should be: why didn't it go back far enough to take out Sarah BEFORE Reese saved her and taught her all she needed to know?

I'm still looking forward to seeing Salvation, simply because it's a franchise I've enjoyed since I saw the first movie in the theatre back in the 80's.