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corpsesarefun wrote:

Xav wrote:There's Ctan conciousness inside the hive mind?

No, there isnt.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Xav wrote:There's Ctan conciousness inside the hive mind?

The Outsider is supposedly the Hive Mind, which actually makes sense since the Outsider went nuts at some point and left. It's ironic that he would choose to drown the galaxy with life rather than death.

No the outsider is nothing to do with the hive mind.
The hive mind is a collective psycic consciousness for the tyranid race rather than an actual being and the outsider is an antiwarp singular being, they are opposites.

We don't know this for sure, so I'm not going to argue the outsider point. There's no proof either way.

However, the entire tyranid race is ONE vast organism. If a biological organism becomes big enough, it requires multiple brains. The Hive Mind is so vast that it requires all the yranid organisms and their brains. Just like we have fingers, it has a swarms of gaunts. We have nerve nodes to relay messages to our bodies from our brain. Synapse creatures are the Hive Mind's nerve nodes. So, the tyranids are just ONE organism with many bodies.

i'm gonna go with a retcon of their only being 4 c'tan, not for any fluff reason, but because saying their are only 4 limits the horribly expensive c'tan model line they can put out.

There could be more than 4 C'Tan; afterall Ferrus Manus killed one and it certainly wasn't any of the 4 we know of. I suppose it could have been some sort of unknown Necron but that seems unlikely - the same goes for it being another Alien race who figured out living metal.

My understanding from the Necron Codex is this.

The Dragon is on Mars, and when he wakes, is going to hit the fan right in the Terra system. The thing is that with the Adeptus Mechanicus, as far as the Cron Codex hints at, the elite inner circle know whats what, but everyone else does not. I remember some BS about Mars once being its own government apart from Terra, like when the Emperor came in, and that the Mechanicus were given a lot of autonomy (not forced to lick Imperial boot) for their services. That would lead me to wonder just which way they would go in terms of loyalty to the ultimate Machine Spirit, or the God-Emperor.

The Outsider is in the Dyson Sphere somewhere at the edge of the galaxy, and the Tyranid hivefleet that came in from there (galactic south/southeast, so might have been the ones that went to share a beer with Tigurius and crew) can be seen to have given it a WIDE berth. (Dyson Sphere, is a giant machine built around an entire sun so all its energy is captured and usable, google it, cool old school sci fi idea).

The Dragon waking would be cool, and if it heralded the next stage of awakenings for the Necron armies (which should be pretty vast, they fought the Old Ones and their collected servant races, across the galaxy) and meant a greater variety of units... well might dust off my army

Well the Nightbringer at most of the other C'tan but how were they created, how do we know more havnt been created in the last like million years.

Xav wrote:Well the Nightbringer at most of the other C'tan but how were they created, how do we know more havnt been created in the last like million years.

C'tan are not created as such, they essentially energy that by some fluke of quantum physics has gained sentience then eventually were given necrodermis shells by the necrontyr.

There are no more necrontyr and c'tan are unlikely to help out other c'tan so even if by some outragously unlikely event a new c'tan was born (note that the orignals had several billion years from when the big bang happened to when the necrontyr found them to form whereas its only been a hundred odd million years from their discovery to the current 40k time period) it is unlikely that they would be given form.

How many C'tan were there before the Nightbringer ate them, some could run away and returned when he slept.

Xav wrote:How many C'tan were there before the Nightbringer ate them, some could run away and returned when he slept.

The outsider ate about half of them, then the nightbringer and dragon polished off the rest.
However it is possible a few of them were hiding on various planets although they would have been active while the nightbringer slept...

It suprising the Deceiver wasnt eaten as he was the weakest of the lot.

Xav wrote:It suprising the Deceiver wasnt eaten as he was the weakest of the lot.

He avoided it by tricked all the others into eating eachother.

Oh, great, like the 'crons *really* need a new C'tan.

It might follow the bent of the 40k plot that the dragon awakes right on earths doorstep.

The current plot line being that the Imperium is besieged on all sides and is gradually crumbling under the onslaught.

The darkest hour is approaching so to speak.

This would allow GW to:
A - increase the Necron Model range and extend their fluff in the new codex.
B - Further expand the planet strike and apoc game range

it would also tee up the fluff for the next stage in the fluff, which I imagine is some kind of awakening (or disintegration) of humanity.

But is there any specific reason (fluff wise) that the dragon must awaken and propagate from Mars?
Could it realize it's entrapment on Mars and simply download itself into another Tomb World?

This might be more interesting as it would postpone the apocalyptic battle on earth, but would also deny the Mechanicum the use of its technology and the STC constructs.

What if the awakening of humanity was that they could no longer rely on the STC and had to actually begin R&D work to develop their own technology?

The dragons awake has been hinted at for ages by GW, GW have recently brough out a version of 40k where you battle over planets (war for mars?), they are supposed to be bringing out a new necron codex soon (2010), people have been begging for admech armies for a long time (could be easily introduced with WoM campaign) and it just generally makes so much sense for the dragon to awaken on mars.

Whether he just explodes out and flies off or actually tries to fight for mars is a different story...
I for one hope its the latter

corpsesarefun wrote:The dragons awake has been hinted at for ages by GW, GW have recently brough out a version of 40k where you battle over planets (war for mars?), they are supposed to be bringing out a new necron codex soon (2010), people have been begging for admech armies for a long time (could be easily introduced with WoM campaign) and it just generally makes so much sense for the dragon to awaken on mars.

It would be too much of a massive change in the fluff and the setting. Remember, these big 'events' in the storyline are only of interest to us veteran players, who knew what the fluff was like 'before the event'. They make no difference to the chances of getting new kids into the game.

The whole AdMech/the Imperium relies on them/technology is religion concept is central to the setting. Changing it so that (for example) the Imperium has to develop new tech wouldn't make the setting any more interesting, except maybe for the veteran players. Veterans have never been GW's priority.

All the big storyline 'campaigns', such as Ichar V or the Thirteenth Black Crusade are great excuses for buying new models, but they never actually CHANGE anything in the storyline. The most we get is a few 'variant' army lists for a year or so.

One theory that I like is that the Dragon knows it's situation but is quite happy with the situation; it considers the Adeptus Mechanicus to be it's own army (as they worship it) and therefore has no need for Necrons. Remember that it is the Necrons who hate life and living things, not the C'Tan, they like feeding on it.

I don't think a big expansion to the Necron army would really fit the fluff too well either :(

ArbitorIan wrote:
It would be too much of a massive change in the fluff and the setting. Remember, these big 'events' in the storyline are only of interest to us veteran players, who knew what the fluff was like 'before the event'. They make no difference to the chances of getting new kids into the game.

As you say in the long run, new players wont know the difference and would potentially have a new imperial army to use (AdMech)

ArbitorIan wrote:
The whole AdMech/the Imperium relies on them/technology is religion concept is central to the setting. Changing it so that (for example) the Imperium has to develop new tech wouldn't make the setting any more interesting, except maybe for the veteran players. Veterans have never been GW's priority.

GW could spin the results of the campaign no matter the outcome to reflect mars being purged and returning to normal, although since alot of the admech would be fighting on mars it would be a perfect time to release them as an army (the same goes for any new necron units).
Thus in the long run no MASSIVE fluff changes, just a some major expansions to the necron army, a new admech army and a vastly amusing summer campaign

ArbitorIan wrote:
All the big storyline 'campaigns', such as Ichar V or the Thirteenth Black Crusade are great excuses for buying new models, but they never actually CHANGE anything in the storyline. The most we get is a few 'variant' army lists for a year or so.

yeah that is what i assume will happen but as i said earlier it would be tied in with the new necron codex, planet strike and hopefully an admech force (possibly just an IG/SM varient list)