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Orks moved from being below par from neglect and silliness to properly competitive.

Arguably competitive, anyway.

When in doubt, GW is trying to make money. They're not trying to ruin your list.

Well, unless you play DA or Chaos.

I think they will give some great rules for trygon(next big kit) and plastic gargs... My biggest fear is that they dont allow carnis to be elites anymore, that would be major downgrade.

I'm just happy that I don't go overboard (aka the best thing atm, like Nidzilla) with my tyranids. That way, Gw cannot nerf my army into oblivion with every new codex.

Last time it was the gimping of the rending-gaunt. Oh, the howl of Tyranid gamers. Live and learn, don't play like GW wants you!

Greets
Schepp himself

okies sure 'stealers will be nerfed, sure tyranids will probably lose ALL of their customisation. BUT they will have some new stuff ^^ i mean anyone for a plastic trygorn?

and maybe a plastic hive tyrant omgz!

ofc if gensestealers DO get nerfed how am i supposed to kill my m8s warbuggys in 200 point games??????

Hey.. i like playing against a nid army. Lots of fun. My little guardsmen love to play hi5 with a fex :S

Hope they do great things.. but so far the new codex's of 5th editon are boring and plain. Too "Clean" with little amounts of tasty custom pictures and lore/fluff. I mean check the Tau codex from 3rd to 4th editons. They lost roughly 1/2 of their fluff for no reason!

Nids need fluff.. less it's just going to be 30 pages of NOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM?

Tau lost more than that. We even lost a character for no real reason. (Of course losing one character is no big deal compared to how bad it could have been, but he was cool and had...well, character.)

I'm sure we'll be getting all that back and then some, though...whenever they feel like it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:...And be prepared for the reign of Gaunts and Tyranid Warriors to begin. Swing that pendulum! YEEHA!

H.B.M.C. wrote:I think that Carnifexes will get more powerful, but will lose some of the current options (no Elite, No Dakkafex, etc.). This is to keep people buying their big plastic kit.

I think you're giving GW a bit too much credit. Nidzilla armies will still exist, but it will be because GW will have the new Trygon, which for a lack of originality on GW's part will have access to all of the Carnifexes options, which of course means they'll take those options away from Carnifexes. You know to make the Trygon more "super cool!"

I don't know if they will have the time/resources for a plastic Trygon after the recut 10-model Termagaunt sprue, recut 10-model Hormagaunt sprue, and recut 10-model Ripper sprue.

Its one of the few consistent rumors, that GW has already developed a plastic Trygon and that they are waiting for the codex redo to release it.

While I think a new nids codex will be fun, I'm hoping for a drastic reduction in the cost of hormaguants. I'm still praying DE are coming out after space wolves.

dumplingman wrote:I'm still praying DE are coming out after space wolves.

I guess you should bring a book It might be a while.
As much as I like Nids, I would rather see some Necrons. Since thats not all too likely in the near grimdark future, I guess a Trygon will be ok

Like I've been saying, I think the danger is that GW will treat Tyranids as a band-aid project and won't recognize how much the metagame has changed in 5th. Some of Phil Kelly's mistakes in the current book (which was a very good 4th ed. codex, don't get me wrong) were because he was too slavish to Andy C's 3rd ed. book. Hormagaunts are one example, in that the Leap rule gave them huge offensive output in early 3rd. But when CC rules changed, Leap wasn't as effective, and Hormagaunts weren't adjusted in price or in rules to compensate in the 4th ed. book.

Anyway, that's the kind of thing I'm scared of in the next book...nerfed Nidzilla and reined-in Genestealers and no boosts to Gaunts, Biovores, medium bugs and general tankbusting to compensate.

If it's next up -- and considering that Phil Kelly just did the previous book -- who would we be looking at as a designer? Maybe Mat Ward?

Arby will write the 'Nids Codex.

The Unending wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's because you don't play them. I'm sure those that do are looking forward to having their Genestelaers nerfed, and all their Flyrants and DakkaFexes made illegal.

Between that and the neutering of the Chaos 'dex and the fact that the 'dex released after Space wolves wasn't Dark Eldar or necrons I think that this plane of existence could not contain the sheer amount of nerd rage which will create a tear in the fabric of reality which will cause GW to lower their prices, realease the new Squats, and for Chuck Norris and MR.T to cause the end of all of existence.

But seriously I think GW may (notice the word may) have learned their lesson from Chaos and not take the nerf bat to the Tyranids, but I could see them doing that which will make me a very sad person.

They didn't nerf the Chaos Codex. In fact, based on tournament statistics since it's release, the 2x Lash Prince + Troops + Obliterators is the most regularly dominant list in the game.

It's very, very powerful. It's just also very, very vanilla. It's the traitors, not the old legions. It's Abaddon's army, it's competitive, and in that capacity, it's perfect. The Legion book will come...

CT GAMER wrote:

The Unending wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:


But seriously I think GW may (notice the word may) have learned their lesson from Chaos and not take the nerf bat to the Tyranids, but I could see them doing that which will make me a very sad person.

I bet money they pull the rug out from under the Nidzilla players...

No they won't. It will just be different.

Carnifex could be moved to HS only, but it may be a 1-3 option, like the Lemun Russ. Also, no more Dakka and Bomber/Boomfex options. Super heavy weapons only, or super heavy CC only. Each in the 1-3 per HS choice will likely have to have similar or the same weapons load-outs. Don't be surprised if the Bio Cannon even makes an appaearance.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Orks moved from being below par from neglect and silliness to properly competitive.

But Guard aren't any more powerful than they were. They're about the same - they just win in different ways.

Guard are easily more powerful than they were. The fact that they have consistent ways of winning is a vast improvement over the previous 'dex.

Orks are not only "properly" competitive, but they have 4 completely viable tier 1 tournament armies, and perhaps the most versatile list in all of 40k. Short of perhaps Flash Gitz, nearly every unit in that Codex is playable on the competitive level. It is steeply competitive, and one of the hardest armies to prepare for because they can come as either all Boyz, all Battlewagons, all Kanz, or a crazy mix.

GW has done an excellent job with their recent codex and army book releases. No matter what they've "nerfed", there has been an equally powerful (or greater) alternative to make the army competitive. Even if Nidzilla - in its current form - goes away, GW will obviously remedy the codex to be competitive in some other capacity. It's the same with Space Wolves. If Thunder Hammers are not available to them, they will obviously have something else to give them an uber the nutz omgz!!!!11!11 unit.

The only thing(s) that would be disappointing is if they kept the 8x + 8x gaunt packaging for $35, as that's a complete ripoff, and if Termagants became the mainstay of the army. The reason I say this is because they simply aren't fun to play. They die without save to every main battle rifle in the game, they can't kill anything, they suffer worse than any other main Troops choice because of No Retreat!, and they can't hold an objective, making them practically useless in 5th edition. They just aren't fun to play like Tactical Marines, Ork Boyz, etc. I'm not saying that Tyranids need a tougher troop, but something to make gaunts worth playing would be nice. If GW plans on converting them to a gaunt-heavy army, make Hormogaunts cheaper, and regular gaunts fun to play.

Wishlisting:

-Cheaper Hormogaunts.
-gaunts that can do more than die like an expensive Grot.
-Genestealers are fine; perhaps a better "rending" option, or a 5+ as the base save.
-Broodlord with Fleet.
-More survivable Raveners and Tyranid Warriors.
-Raveners made plastic and placed as an option in the Tyranid Warriors box. The lower torso could be an option to have legs, or exchanged for a long tail. Their weapons load-outs are the same anyway.
-Not only plastic Gargoyles, but playable Gargoyles.
-Bring back an acid spray or tangle web weapon using the flamer template, but make it only available to Gargoyles, Warriors, and Raveners.
-Hive Tyrant in plastic with all of the options actually present in-box, and/or Tyrant Guard in a $15 plastic (or 3 for $45) like the Bretonnian Pegasus Knight or something.
-Make Lictors capable of doing more than simply providing a pheremone trail for Genestealers.
-Introduce 1 new unit, as is the case for every new army release.

don't forget my two personal fav wishlists.

1. Lictors not taking dt tests when they come into play.
2. DS upgrade for carnifex, including a large blast impact crater at the spot where he lands!

brassangel wrote:The only thing(s) that would be disappointing is if they kept the 8x + 8x gaunt packaging for $35, as that's a complete ripoff, and if Termagants became the mainstay of the army. The reason I say this is because they simply aren't fun to play. They die without save to every main battle rifle in the game, they can't kill anything, they suffer worse than any other main Troops choice because of No Retreat!, and they can't hold an objective, making them practically useless in 5th edition. They just aren't fun to play like Tactical Marines, Ork Boyz, etc. I'm not saying that Tyranids need a tougher troop, but something to make gaunts worth playing would be nice. If GW plans on converting them to a gaunt-heavy army, make Hormogaunts cheaper, and regular gaunts fun to play.

Gaunts get more interesting with a few minor changes.

1) WS4
2) Spinefists count as dual CCWs
3) Synapse grants "player may choose to pass or fail" rather than Fearless

WS boost means they take fewer casualties vs. WS4 units, dual CCW gives them a CC boost, and revised synapse mean they can tarpit effectively again. Pair this with better/cheaper Warriors for more reliable synapse coverage, and I think they'd have something to build on.

Sidstyler wrote:

Orks moved from being below par from neglect and silliness to properly competitive.

Arguably competitive, anyway.

When in doubt, GW is trying to make money. They're not trying to ruin your list.

Well, unless you play DA or Chaos.

Or LATD or Genestealer cult, or...

what about dark eldar!

acreedon wrote:what about dark eldar!

To be nerfed, we'd need a new codex first!

winterman wrote:... but Cruddance is rumored to be working on the Tyranid codex

Well think of it this way. Tyranids will probably be the most numerous Horde army in the game because they'll get an option like IG platoons that allow to have a ridiculous amount of gaunts on the table for cheap.

I don't see any reason why GW would get rid of the "carnifex as elite" option. What is more likely to happen is that you will need a character to unlock it, and Carnifexes will be toned down a little.

Here are the changes that should be made:

1. Gaunts get a points reduction to one of the cheapest troops in the game.
2. Spniefists are more expensive then Devourers.
3. Hormagaunts are 6 points each.
4. Warriors are toughness 5, 4+ save base.
5. Remove no Instant Death within synapse rules.
6. Trim the fat on the options on the units.
7. Remove synapse as a detriment to the army. Rather turn synapse into a system similar to Guard Orders or Faith Points, where synapse creatures simply command units with bonuses. It would be cool for a Hive Tyrant to use synapse to cause a Gaunt brood to ignore leadership modifiers for a turn, or if a Hive Tyrand can order a Carnifex to gain +1 attack.

I don't like the idea of getting rid of synapse creatures as a detriment. I only imagine if GW moved in that direction we'll see all the non-synapse creatures reduced in effectiveness, with the "benefical only" synapse creature brining them upto par.

Right now it's pretty much nothing but a detriment unless you take Warriors and people are unusually inclined to fire missile launchers at them. I wouldn't minds Acts of the Hive Mind or Telepathic Orders or something. Vampire Counts got some sort of magic helm that donates a Vampires high weapon skill to a friendly unit, so why can't we get synapse auras that boost a stat or something? Say a Zoanthrope can choose not to fire but donate it's brainpower to a nearby unit of gaunts to boost their accuracy.

brassangel wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:But Guard aren't any more powerful than they were. They're about the same - they just win in different ways.

Guard are easily more powerful than they were. The fact that they have consistent ways of winning is a vast improvement over the previous 'dex.

No way. Drop Guard with 10-pt Plasma are categorically better than what we have today.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

brassangel wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:But Guard aren't any more powerful than they were. They're about the same - they just win in different ways.

Guard are easily more powerful than they were. The fact that they have consistent ways of winning is a vast improvement over the previous 'dex.

No way. Drop Guard with 10-pt Plasma are categorically better than what we have today.

...except in KP missions.

I usually don't play VPs or KPs - I play Apoc / Objectives, and Drop Guard is much better.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I usually don't play VPs or KPs - I play Apoc / Objectives, and Drop Guard is much better.

Then you don't play a third of the game.

Guard are much more competitive now with much greater options. Drop Guard suffered from dropping next to the merry go round of tanks most armies can field to limit their effectiveness, or armies that would simple hold things in reserve and counter attack.

I don't like the idea of getting rid of synapse creatures as a detriment. I only imagine if GW moved in that direction we'll see all the non-synapse creatures reduced in effectiveness, with the "benefical only" synapse creature brining them upto par.

The problem with synapse today is that most of the units Tyranids field either don't care about synapse or are a synapse creatures to begin with. The only Tyranid player in the semi-finals of the hard boyz just spammed Carnifexes and Genestealers (like 60 of them).

Synapse has only made poor units poorer. If you transition to Synapse being a benefit, you have a possibility to make units that are "on the bubble" much more useful.

It's similar to Heavy Weapon Teams in the IG book, Orders allow you to get much better use out of them.

I agree. Old guard codex was hands down better then the new one.

Sure we got all kinds of new tanks, most of which will never EVER be used so wtf is the point?

Sure we got new special characters and lost two good ones for no reason other then Oh Guard can actually win with this guy! We cant have that now can we? Most of them will never EVER be used so wtf is the point?

Sure we got new/old art back. However most of which will NEVER ever be used so wtf is the point?

Lets not forget the uncalled for points increase on tanks and their upgrades, the uncalled for points increase on Storm Troopers and Ogryn, the 11 pt T2 ratlings...

Do you see a trend?

Ive played guard since 2nd ED and im getting sick and tired of constantly haveing a frigging shelf FULL of models that im never going to use again.

I had very high hopes for this new edition, espically when I thought id be bringing my old tanks/arty back to the field of battle.

Nope.

If I want to be Tourny capable I have to go out and spend yet more money on new shiny models.

Guard Meet Shelf. On that shelf meet my LATD, IG AC, and Pure Harley Army.

Think ill go back to playing All things Zombie and Nuts! Until GW pulls its head out of its ass.

I'm looking forward to getting some new nids. I hope I can get all my new guard stuff done by then

I predict/wishlist the new models we will get will be the trygon for apocalypse, a plastic hive tyrant, new plastic warriors with tons of extra bitz so they can also be assembled as lictors or tyrant guard with an optional direct only upgrade sprue with snakey tails to make raveners. They'll split the guants into separate boxes of hormagaunts and termagants and sell em as 12 in a box for $25.

The next 40K codex after wolves wont come out untill april.(wolves hit in october then a fantasy will hit in january then 40k in april, new codex every 3 months) Why would it be nids anyway? You could fix their codex with a proper errata. The necrons need one the most, or Dark Eldar would be cool even though they dont need it. In all honesty I would like to see all the inquisitional armies put into one big book, even though I hate them.(fluff wise) Nids are still a competitive army.