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Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Fishing for the MMO crowd?

That seems to be the general consensus over on the FFG boards

Cardboard standups? You gotta be kidding me. I see also that the 4th Ed. just went with the pogs in their starter set too.

Damn, they missed the boat on this one. Would have been cool to have a spure of character figs in that set.

worth a read

.hmm liking this less and less.

Might want to watch this then.

Direct quote from the guy in charge:

"There is no board. There is no map. It is not a board game."

Dice and cards give them more products to sell and lock people in. I'm not interested but I can see the sales logic. I doubt it will do well though, there's already more than enough games like that around.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Might want to watch this then.

Direct quote from the guy in charge:

"There is no board. There is no map. It is not a board game."

Better news.

God damn I wish they'd use youtube though..

I wish there was some fething reports out. They've run a few RT, DH and WFRPG seminars now and we've got no reports for them.

My first reaction is that I hate it. I liked First and Second edition and this seems to be going backwards and at greater cost. Well, initially anyway. The difficulty and setting was one of the things that set WFRP apart from the other RPGs out there. It was the Oregon Trail of pen and paper games.

"Your companion has died of dysentery, you have a broken leg, you have no food."

I've also never been a fan of having to many specialized dice. If you need more than 2 Rapid Fire dice you are doing it wrong.

I'll make sure to get the Rocking Chairs, Canes, and lawn ready for you guys so you can tell the kids to get off of it.
Seriously. You all know jack about the system and suddenly the sky is falling.


Also, is it the "thing" to do these days when an RPG gets a face-lift to claim that "IT'S TRYING TO APPEAL TO MMO PLAYERS" It doesn't seem like an MMO at all, not even remotely.

I'm just glad to see the percentile system gone.

strange_eric wrote:I'll make sure to get the Rocking Chairs, Canes, and lawn ready for you guys so you can tell the kids to get off of it.
Seriously. You all know jack about the system and suddenly the sky is falling.

While you are doing that we'll get you a dictionary and some reading glasses. I wrote that my first reaction is that I don't like it. It leaves open room for further evaluation down the road when we do know more about it. Still, I wasn't born yesterday and I have played a game or two so I have some basis of experience to call on regarding these types of things so it isn't as if I am just talking obliquely with no point of reference. I know what i enjoy and generally know what I don't care that much for.

And actually we do no more than nothing about the system. It uses different types of cards, special dice, and costs $100. We have seen the cards and dice so we aren't entirely in the dark.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Might want to watch this then.

Direct quote from the guy in charge:

"There is no board. There is no map. It is not a board game."

Even better quote at approx 4:35 "... to put the focus where I think it belongs . . ."

Glad we're going to get to play the way he wants to. And if I hear the word 'innovative' to describe this game one more time, I'll scream.

edit: was just perusing the FFG fourms. I think the new tagline for this game will be "It is NOT a Boardgame!"

It looks like a board game with no board.

In the gaming circles I run in, 4E D&D has been a huge whiff. I don't understand why you'd want to make your game more like it. They must have started making it back when people actually thought D&D 4$ was 'innovative and exciting'.

The more these threads (this and the mystery box thread) continue, the more I look like the most upbeat optimistic poster at Dakka.

For some of you you're acting like they're both raping your childhood whilst pissing in your cereal. Christ, there was less whining in the Transformers 2 threads I've posted in, and we'd all seen that film. Here we know very little, and it's the end of the fething world all of a sudden.

What gives?

I agree with you. Maybe we are just too used to getting all the info right away, so when the companies hold back, we stomp our feet until we get it.

On Topic. You would think that they won't be able to use their 2nd ed WFRP books all of a sudden.
I remember quite a few people happily playing AD&D well into dnd3.5.
They can change the mechanics of the game all they want, the background that a GM needs will still be available, and can always be adapted from any source.
It is role play, not roll play, right? the mechanics shouldn't matter, just how the PCs interact with the world. Stick with the old if preferred.

Personally, WFRP always seemed clunky and archaic, even when I was introduced to it in '94. I preferred the TSR/AD&D approach.
I even liked 3/3.5, mostly because of the translation of the rules used for Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2. The fan modules for 1 were fantastic.

But this new version of WFRP at least has my interest. And FFG is usually very forthcoming with the demos and downloadable previews.
I haven't had a FFG game yet that I didn't like. At least that they designed themselves. Cave Troll was kind of meh.

Regardless of wether it will play well or not, the price and lack of stuff for that price puts me off.
Mick

Lack of stuff? Have you seen what's in there?

Yes, four character packs, stand up counters, packs of cards (how many times have different RPG's tried this 'new' way of playing?), possibly a GM screen and some very thin looking rules 'tomes', to me not a $100 dollars worth. Too many times I've been caught out with new, hyped up, 'shiny' games that have ended up being a waste of time and money.
Also remember if your gaming group has more than four players the others will need to buy there own player packs according to what they have said.
If the price comes down and it ends up getting good player reviews once its released I'll think about it again then. For now though I'll stick with second edition thanks.
Mick

Mick A wrote:Yes, four character packs, stand up counters, packs of cards (how many times have different RPG's tried this 'new' way of playing?), possibly a GM screen and some very thin looking rules 'tomes', to me not a $100 dollars worth. Too many times I've been caught out with new, hyped up, 'shiny' games that have ended up being a waste of time and money.
Also remember if your gaming group has more than four players the others will need to buy there own player packs according to what they have said.
If the price comes down and it ends up getting good player reviews once its released I'll think about it again then. For now though I'll stick with second edition thanks.
Mick

Considering it isn't out yet, that's what you have to do anyway.

I think FFG is looking at sustainability of the product line. With RPGs, once you buy the startup stuff, you don't need anything else.
I remember hearing them talk about expansions of existing games, and how each time you expand, the return is lessened.

With RPGs it has to be worse. For every 5-6 people who play, only one is usually buying stuff.
If players need their own pack, the cost is split more. I see no problem with the GM and players divvying up the stuff upon purchase.
The GM shouldn't be the only one buying for the game the group plays.

Also, I saw it mentioned that this is possibly their method of combatting piracy. Anybody can scan a book.
But if you need special dice, and cards to play, it could be just as expensive to print a download as buy the book.
Plus you can always translate the proprietary dice to the equivalent numbers.
I had to do this with MonPoc when it came out and the Starters sold out.

I've been playing RPG's since the late 70's and each group of people of played with have had their own copy of Players Handbook or equivelant plus other books relevant to their character. Yes the GM has normally had more books etc (I myself have all the WFRP second edition books bar two) but he doesn't need to.
The problem I see with this edition is if five people split the cost and then sometime later the group dissolves, or one person decides to drop out, they have to decide who has what cards, dice, etc then need to either find another group who have done the same or buy the whole thing again themselves. Great for making FFG money but not practical for gamers.
Mick

Yeah, but if there is a 4 PC limit on the box set, I bet they have 4 copies of all the player stuff. Plus the GM copy of things.

But this is just speculation based on my purchases of FFG games. They give you everything you need.
I am thinking that the 4PC thing on the box is to keep costs down. It was the magic number that wasn't too small or too big, but just right.

I can imagine the outcry if it had been for 5 PCs. Then all the complaints would be about "What if you only have 4 players"


Just a question I thought of as I read your post.
How is buying the player pack different from buying a Players Handbook+?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, yeah. If somebody bails, why wouldn't they take their portion, as they have already paid for it?
I don't think it would be any different from someone buying the player packs.
Big box seems to be there if you want it, but you can get by with a player pack if you are low on funds.

We gamers seem to be fickle. I notice quite often the "just getting back in" threads on the 40k Discussions forum.
I can imagine the same goes for RPGers.

Mick A wrote:For now though I'll stick with second edition thanks.

Quick follow up question:

Do your knees hurt at all?

With versions one and two all a GM or player needed to run a game was the basic rulebook, everything else was optional. Even in D&D the GM only needed GM Guide, Players Handbook and Monster Manual (not sure with latest edition but all other editions would be less than $100) and the player only needed Players Handbook.
If the group splits, and they all paid equal amounts, who gets the three rule books? Who gets the cards and counters? Who gets the dice?
I can't see the player packs including the rule books and packs of cards as well, if so why get the $100 box set?
Don't understand the bit about my knees, could you explain please?
Mick

General Hobbs wrote:While people in my game club love WFRP, I found the fact that you ran away from combat because it was so lethal a downer.

I've always seen that as the strength of WHFRP - i.e. it's true to the source material. You go toe to toe with a Chaos Warrior, and you will die. It's kind of like Call of Cthulhu (another game that I love). It makes the players think around problems, and use unconventional tools like investigation, blackmail, bribery and betrayal. Remember, in WHFRP - you aren't anybody special, and if you're very lucky, the best you can hope for is that your death will serve to stem the tide of chaos for a short while.

Hey does anyone remember that Roleplaying Card Game Collectable; you played shifters or something like that.

God it was a long time ago.

I remember that you had water and food cards as well as special abilities you could shift into Dragonss, Werewolfs, Gargoyles.


Ugh what was the name of that.

unistoo wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:While people in my game club love WFRP, I found the fact that you ran away from combat because it was so lethal a downer.

I've always seen that as the strength of WHFRP - i.e. it's true to the source material. You go toe to toe with a Chaos Warrior, and you will die. It's kind of like Call of Cthulhu (another game that I love). It makes the players think around problems, and use unconventional tools like investigation, blackmail, bribery and betrayal. Remember, in WHFRP - you aren't anybody special, and if you're very lucky, the best you can hope for is that your death will serve to stem the tide of chaos for a short while.

Exactly, I play D&D for fantasy superheroes. I play WFRP for 'realistic' fantasy.

His Master's Voice wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:I really like 2 edition WFRP. But I'm also really interested to see how this plays out. Sounds like the new edition characters will be more heroic and, hopefully, more capable.

Bleh. If I'd want to play heroics I'd pick up D&D. WFRP should be grim, gritty and deadly because that's what Old World is all about. The world is dead, it just keeps on running with momentum - making it anything else takes ways the special factor in WFRP.

I hope they keep the 2nd edition in print. I still have to buy a lot of the new supplement and I don't have the money for those right now. I'd hate to have to hunt them through eBay later when they double in price.

Hey I like grim and gritty. I have a problem with how friggin incompetent the characters are when they start out. Nothing says fun like trying to fight off goblins with a party of non-combatants and getting your ass handed to you. <---- By GOBLINS of all things.

Ahtman wrote:My first reaction is that I hate it. I liked First and Second edition and this seems to be going backwards and at greater cost. Well, initially anyway. The difficulty and setting was one of the things that set WFRP apart from the other RPGs out there. It was the Oregon Trail of pen and paper games.

"Your companion has died of dysentery, you have a broken leg, you have no food."

That just isn't my idea of a good time. Maybe I'm too nice of a GM, but I never gave my players illnesses or broken bones. We used the sudden death criticals. You were either dead or not. Because who really wants to play a one armed character?

Noisy_Marine wrote:That just isn't my idea of a good time. Maybe I'm too nice of a GM, but I never gave my players illnesses or broken bones. We used the sudden death criticals. You were either dead or not. Because who really wants to play a one armed character?

Dr. Richard Kimble would like to speak with this one armed character

I feel as though my brain has been raped.

Shattered Soul wrote:I feel as though my brain has been raped.

And my corflakes peed in and dog kicked.