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I mostly use two types of DEVs
4 Plasma Cannons or Heavy Bolters

The PC Devs can chew through anything cut Tanks
The HB do well vs Swarms

I find them to very worthwile, yes a Predator can give you the same fire power for less, one ML or LC wont ruin your day.

I you got the pionts they are worth it IMHO

Jackmojo wrote:

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:The greatest benefit devestators have is the fact that they can out range most anti infantry weapons. The other army will typically have to devote long-range single shot weapons at them to take them out. Since the first casualties won't even reduce the devestators firepower, it will require a significant portion of the enemy's long range fire power to render them ineffective. There range and the fact that they are infantry usually makes them quite difficult to take out.

The only army lists who's anti infantry firepower they outrange are the codecies geared for close combat (tyranids and orks basically, and even orks can bring lootas and shokk attack guns which will smoke marines fine at range) and a few legacy 3rd edition lists; every other list has very effective anti infantry weapons which out range the best range (48 inches) Devestators can manage (not that every army made from those lists will bring those weapons to be sure).

Jack

Hmmmm.. the only anti-infantry weapons that outrange Devestators would be IG. Eldar, Bugs and DE are range 36". DE might be all in raiders which move 12" first, but they are single shot weapons and the return fire with combat squads can not be countered with DE.

I keep going back to IG. 4-Missile Dev's are great against Chimera's and Squadrons of Hound varients and Valk's. A lascannon toting troop unit will not have the same afffect on a squadron of Chemhounds as a missile dev squad will. The Squadron will continue to allocate those crew stunned and shaken results to the same vehicle. It can't do that against the missile dev's. Speeders can have great weapons, but they are also taken down real fast by a simple multilaser whicle Dev's are not. It is true they will hug cover for the 4+ whenever possible and that goes to help them.

I'm not saying the 4-missile Dev squad is the end all be all, but the OP wanted to know when they are viable and I'm saying they are viable, right now. I've ridden the 4-missile Dev squad to 2 Ard Boyz semifinal wins now and I like them. They don't outright win the game for me, but they do solve problems.

vs. 11 Eldar Skimmers the Dev's stayed back, combat squaded and shot 2 Serpent/Falcons a turn to either shut them down for a turn or outright kill them.
vs. Daemons they were together and with Null Zone helped to drop Skarbrand in one turn.
vs. Black Templars in nightfight game they didn't do anything worthwile
vs. Deathwing army they shot templates across the board onto advancing termies and got a few 1's for the save.
vs. Eldar they sat in a trench and downed a Wraithlord in one turn, then sprayed templates into the Eldar troops until they died from return fire. My own troops were'nt shot at.

Yes they are effective.

a dev squad tactic i'd like to try out would be to take a 10 man squad with 4x multimeltas in a drop pod. first turn, you drop them in a central position on the board, and get out and combat squad.... you've just created a 48" radius tank no-go zone... looks like it could be pretty fun if combined with a fairly mobile mechanized army to get up there and support them, or with a drop pod army.

so yes, I think we can all agree dev squads are only viable with missile launchers, or multimeltas... anything else you can get cheaper elsewhere in the codex.. (3x dakka preds for the cost of your 1 dev squad with 4x heavy bolters... sure it takes up all heavy slots, but who cares, its alot of firepower)

The PC Devs can chew through anything cut Tanks
The HB do well vs Swarms

Just a point here, but small blasts tend to hit 3 times when landing well, making them just as good as a HB.
They are much higher strength, meaning sometimes instant death, and other times, easy wounds.
Thier AP beats that of the HB by miles!, meaning they are good anti-heavy armour.
They have the ability to destroy tanks, something which the HB tends to lack.
They arent much more expensive than a HB, and look a damn sight better

How does the HB do well against swarms? Swarms are vulnerable to blasts, once again giving the plasma a huge win
If by swarms you mean horde armies, refer to my above comments

OK, "gets hot" may kill a marine once a game or so, but its worth it

all in all, the plasma cannon wins by miles.


I have been tempted to run 3 10man dez squads, with plasma cannons just for the fun of it.
However, i may then have to run dreads with plasma cannons and tac squads with plasma pistol, gun and cannon simply to make it plasma heavy.

Allthough, i think "gets hot" may kill a few marines that game

I miss the old SM codex. Ok you've some new and funky toys in this one; in the old one you could really mess around with the units.

Taking Devastators with plasma cannons and tank hunter bliss. Furious charge on your assault marries, epic. Apothecaries in ever tac or vet squad sweet (even though they only ignored one failed save per turn). Allowing scout sergeants to have terminator armour (, then given the heavy bolter for good measure) and finally infiltrating in, priceless.

... but those days are gone we're left with just standard smurf devastators. Unless you going for an exotic build such as quad-plasma Cannon they should just stay at home.

meh, we should just go for full on customization in the next SM codex...

every model in the army except scouts can take crux terminati (terminatuses?), and then have access to anything from terminator armor to heavy bolters.

a squad of 10 devastators in terminator armor packing conversion beamers and plasma cannons..... *shudder*

Horst wrote:meh, we should just go for full on customization in the next SM codex...

every model in the army except scouts can take crux terminati (terminatuses?), and then have access to anything from terminator armor to heavy bolters.

a squad of 10 devastators in terminator armor packing conversion beamers and plasma cannons..... *shudder*

I would have no trouble with 10 terminators with ether plama cannons or coversion beamers ... 800pts sounds about right

JD21290 wrote:

The PC Devs can chew through anything cut Tanks
The HB do well vs Swarms

Just a point here, but small blasts tend to hit 3 times when landing well, making them just as good as a HB.
They are much higher strength, meaning sometimes instant death, and other times, easy wounds.
Thier AP beats that of the HB by miles!, meaning they are good anti-heavy armour.
They have the ability to destroy tanks, something which the HB tends to lack.
They arent much more expensive than a HB, and look a damn sight better

How does the HB do well against swarms? Swarms are vulnerable to blasts, once again giving the plasma a huge win
If by swarms you mean horde armies, refer to my above comments

OK, "gets hot" may kill a marine once a game or so, but its worth it

all in all, the plasma cannon wins by miles.


I have been tempted to run 3 10man dez squads, with plasma cannons just for the fun of it.
However, i may then have to run dreads with plasma cannons and tac squads with plasma pistol, gun and cannon simply to make it plasma heavy.

Allthough, i think "gets hot" may kill a few marines that game

The funny thing is I have been playing for about 20 years, I have yet to loose a marine to "Gets Got" and use PP, PG, & PC all over the place.

Thing about Gets Hot! (with space marines anyways) first you have to roll a 1 to hit. Then, for armor saves, you have to roll under three, so it is unlikely that you'll lose a MARINE to Gets Hot! For other armies though, with somewhat worse armor saves, Gets Hot is a bit more chancy.

Playing a game against Eldar, my HB Dev squad and their stock Razorback were my most effective FOC slot, followed by my PC Dev squad and their Las/Plas Razorback. Both were 5-man squads.

Deploying them in cover, along with proper support, worked really well.

Ever since my RT days Dev squads have always had a place in my marine armies.

Either split into a 4 man fire platform or 2x 2 heavy weapons they have always shown they are effective and although in 5th edition I havent touched my marines (DA's now facing ebay since I saw the codex and the marine one in jan) I believe they're still worth the look in.

A full 10 man squad split into the 4 heavy weapons and a squad with a sarge with CC options and a razorback gives a lot of flexability for one slot and a fire magnet away from your scoring units or havok wreaking units.

vs. the option of a tank they are (usually) higher cost but being deployed right they'll have cover saves for when that 3+ just can't be taken. But a tank is just 1 big target whereas the devs are a squad.

A flexable loadout such as the 4 missile launchers puts them high on a desirabilty list for a vs. all comers list which I find myself in the need of 99% of the time. Tailoring an army to decimate a specific one is a luxury I'm rarely afforded.

With tactical squads I really dont see the point of having a combat squad sit back with the single heavy weapon targeting tanks for example to skimp on costs as that requires a high number of them to have enough shots to stand a chance of downing something guaranteed each turn whereas 4 anti tank shots (krak missiles, lascannons and to an extent plasma cannons) from one squad to me sounds a lot more useful.

With cover everywhere on the table these days as people say it makes even more sense to me to have the devs leaning more towards anti armour shots while my tactical squads, dreads etc are the ones mowing down the infantry.
Not to say I put all my trust in the devs ofcourse, such an expansive unit becomes a fire magnet, drawing the fire away from the dreadnought, bike squads, predator and transports, allowing me to make sure not all my troops are shot up in objective games.

With tactical squads I really dont see the point of having a combat squad sit back with the single heavy weapon

It's a flexibility thing when you purchase tac squads and play 2/3 of the objective missions.

It's adding options to the SM list. Sm don't have lots of choices for troops, so you'll most likely have these guys anyway.

As for drawing away fire, it depends on where they are.
Win/win in these regards.

Set up far away in an isolated corner they prob. won't be molested.
Set up near an objective to screen scorers or draw fire.

My 7 Cents.

A ten man squad of devastators with las cannons can be very rude against an armor list. Especially with their range and using the signum.

That route is expensive at 310 pts. Although you can do 2 las cannons and 2 missile launchers for 270, which is a litte more reasonable. And give some anti-infantry options as well.

In short, it can be worth it if you know what you are going up against. You just need to outfit it with either anti-tank or anti-armor wargear.

Cheers

Four Lascannons can be pretty good against Infantry: at least you're likely to wound! Plus the squad has six riflemen.

Right, so the other 6 bolters can cover up to 24" around you, while the las cannons cannons can pound the armor or anything else that needs killing.

Although, another idea may be to just keep a 5 man dev squad and a seperate atc squad nerby to cover them. That way you wont wast a turn of Las fire for an incoming enemy; leave that to the tac squad while the dev keeps pounding the hard targets.

The only problem is that a 10 man squad vs a 5 man squad will not suffer as badly from casualties. I ran 10 man dev squads for that reason.

Its really about who and what you are facing.

I love dev squads

i usually take either a full 10 man squad with two heavy bolters and two missile launchers, or two Plasma cannons and two lascannons

with the bolter/missile squad they just put the hurt on infantry and if i really need them to they can kill light vehicles

with the plas/laz squad i combat squad them and have the plasma take on any heavy infantry while the lascannons pop tanks

in appocolypse i take both squads and put them in a Stormlord

I don't know how I feel about Marine Dev squads. I tend to agree that there are other options that do the same thing for less points and often do it a little better.

Then again, for my Sisters I love my Retributor squad with 3 HB. However, they really only compete with a 3rd Exorcist for a slot, and I can't take an HB in a troop slot, so they are a little easier to swallow.