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grizgrin wrote:The clerk was just mirroring the attitude promoted by a frighteningly large proportion of people who play Privateer Press games. Go over to their forums and take a look around. Peek into the threads that talk about it, or strat your own thread. That can be a real elitist buunch of people. Now, the Hordesmachine players in my area are really cool, and I have Khador and Legion myself to the tune of about 4000 points apiece. But I would play against your proxy any day of the week, especially if you did some converting or a bang-up paint job. Even though I hate facing Eye-russ. But some people would certainly look down upon you, and some of those in the aforementioned proportion who are guilty of Greater Jackassery would have the gall to lecture you about it, promise.

This attitude stems directly from the prevalent tournament rules, which prohibit all scratchbuilds, all proxies and any conversion that doesn't use a majority of the parts of the original. All this is stated to be in the interest of players being able to tell variant models apart. And since Warmachine is a game that encourages the tournament mindset on every level, this rule is law around a lot of casual tables, too.

Honestly hearing this has kind of stunted my want to jump into WarMachine, I was even looking into starting two small forces, one of Cryx, and one of cygnar, I just love the models, but if that is the prevailing thought of the players, I may just paint the Models for a while.

I wouldn't call it prevailing.

Just check with your group.

Imo, proxing is ok to an extent as well... it also depends on where or how its being proxied...

I have a friend who let me proxy an entire WoC with my orcs to test lists before I went and bought stuff for a horrible list... To me this is fine... If it had been a tournament or something? No way... in a friendly game where the person KNOWS your trying out something new? Sure why not...

Single models like characters and such... seems perfectly fine to me to proxy a model that looks cool... That same friend has a warmachine model for a necron lord... whats wrong with that? It looks better, it was the same price, he took time to paint it like he would anyother model... Not being able to use it in a GW ran event is understandable however... They need to sponser their models at their events... even if it gets annoying... Same story with that same friends ultraforge bloodthirster...

Scratch building models to a horrid extent where it takes more skill to make it look as bad as it does... Im sure most everyone has seen Dave Smith's Warlord that was on BoLS? That model is AMAZING (I got to play against it :O )... However ever since that model was made and brought to my local GW... theres like 4 other people with warlords... I mean, pieces of foamcore slapped together with pipes for legs... But its still a Warlord cause its HUGE and has shape... that too me is insulting when people put no effort into making scratchbuilds...

This is just IMO though

Emperors Faithful wrote:A guy at our FLGS threw together a few cereal boxes, spray-painted them black, threw on an effigy of Mork (or possibly Gork) where the head roughly was, and proclaimed them to be 3 bonafide Stompas. I don't think anyone was too keen to play them. (And the little kids who had hastily bought the 'real' ones were none too pleased that such cheap, shoddy imitations were being used.

The orkyness is strong in that one

As far as scratch building vehicles, well if there isn't a model for the vehicle you are going to use then its understandable. If you can do a reasonable job building one then I'd be happy to see it on the table.

Scratch building a Land Raider out of a shoe box, no matter how many scrounged bits you've hot glued onto it, isn't okay. There are two or three perfectly good Land Raider sets. You knew you'd have to invest money in the game when you started, so don't be grotesquely cheap.

I once made a napalm strike out of two shoeboxes covered with cotton wool painted red, orange and yellow.

It was for an exhibition Vietnam game at a club's open day.


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This is what I call a scratch build.

http://austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2009-09-28/16741/Wheel_crate_driver

Personally I have no issues with proxies - the only thing I ask is that it be an appropriate model. From the looks of that model you linked, I would have no issue.

I've found in the past that the Gee-dub crowd tend to be hard-asses about proxies while the PP crowd (in my area at least) tend to be more reasonable... But I've found that where you play makes a big difference. One of the local Circle players uses Rakham druids in place of PP druids - the attitude at the store is that if you've found a good model, painted it well, and no one complains, they don't care. The local GW on the other hand has a 100% no proxies rule. They gave me a hard time for playing with assembled skaven because I hadn't attached the shields (the models were being painted).

I think the reality of it is that you'll find jerks wherever you go.

BlackSpike wrote:In my local GW, I often tell them about the conversions I am going to be using.
I bought a Fantasy Sorcerer to convert into a Ork WeirdBoy. They wanted me to bring it in when it was done, to see how it looks!
They even oooh!'ed and aaah!'ed over my kinder-kan konversions!
So long as you are spending some money on the hobby, staff should be encouraging you, not trying to alienate you!
If your whole army is lego and cardboard, then a store has a right to say "Hey, aren't you going to buy anything, to help support the tables and scenery you use every week?", but if you just use a few proxies that you bought at that store, where is the problem?

Exactly how i feel, running my(our) FLGS

I have no problem with proxies at all. I played a couple of games yesterday where my first opponent used my own warriors as crisis suits, and the second guy used a tin of coke as his drop pod. Both guys have the models, they just aren't built yet. Even if they didn't I still wouldn't mind as long as you know what you are playing against. The only exception to my rule is if someone only uses proxies and makes no effort to get anything that resembles a real army...I wouldn't even mind if it wasn't GW stuff, as long as you can tell the player put some effort into it.

Proxying is a great alternative. Say you want an army, but aren't too sure how it's gonna play on the field. Will you spend XXX amount of cash on it, only to find it's absolute trash? No. Proxy it, see how it does, then get the stuff if you like it.

i say try it as long as the model is roughly the same shape/size and you denote it as a proxy prior to the match. i have no problem with people using appropriate proxies but you have to remember that there are plenty of people out there that give proxiers a bad name. like the guy who used his necron lord as a ctan and then tried to claim that the model was completely out of LOS behind a wall when that same wall would have been crotch high on a real ctan model. or the guy i played against who scratchbuilt his battlewagons smaller than the current trukks. just be appropriate in your rulings regarding LOS and such.