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Edit: See willydstyle's post further down, I dont think anyone else paid attention because they knew it was a bad idea (I figured it out halfway through typing the post) but yeah, below tactic? Not good with spears, replace them with fire dragons.

Actually, what about a min-max spearlock squad in a falcon? They move up, jump out and throw spears, iirc the spears are S9 (or possibly a bigger spearlock squad in a serpent....but that'd be really expensive. Actually the spearlocks might not be worth it over tank-hunting fire dragons (same str basically), falcon or serpent.)

And if the spears fail you can always ram it with the falcon next turn.

Well, it seems that all those efforts to take down an AV 14 tank, notably Landraider or Monolith, are suicide attacks.
I tend to ignore these d**** 'steal coffins' until it can no longer be ignored.
Until then, some of the enemy units might be dead so that
the suicide mission is eventually no longer suicide.

Yeah, I always do my best to ignore monoliths and play the mission or go for phase out.

I don't see a lot of multi-LR lists where I am, so one unit of fire dragons and a couple of brightlance shots (on the off chance of a lucky turn 1 or 2 immobilize result) is more than enough.

Everything else has side or rear armor that's vulnerable to massed Str6 mobile firepower, and anybody with a witchblade can eat any walker's lunch in one round.

Linking Prism shots are good against AV14.

starbomber109 wrote:Actually, what about a min-max spearlock squad in a falcon? They move up, jump out and throw spears, iirc the spears are S9 (or possibly a bigger spearlock squad in a serpent....but that'd be really expensive. Actually the spearlocks might not be worth it over tank-hunting fire dragons (same str basically), falcon or serpent.)

And if the spears fail you can always ram it with the falcon next turn.

This is possibly the worst idea ever. Str 9 is not nearly as good as a melta gun, and those warlocks are not only more expensive than fire dragons, they die just as easily to most of the guns in the game. I see that you addressed this in your second sentence... but still, I just wanted to reinforce the idea to not do this.

willydstyle wrote:

starbomber109 wrote:(Edit/postscript: hmm, yeah, this is a bad idea.) Actually, what about a min-max spearlock squad in a falcon? They move up, jump out and throw spears, iirc the spears are S9 (or possibly a bigger spearlock squad in a serpent....but that'd be really expensive. Actually the spearlocks might not be worth it over tank-hunting fire dragons (same str basically), falcon or serpent.)

And if the spears fail you can always ram it with the falcon next turn.

This is possibly the worst idea ever. Str 9 is not nearly as good as a melta gun, and those warlocks are not only more expensive than fire dragons, they die just as easily to most of the guns in the game. I see that you addressed this in your second sentence... but still, I just wanted to reinforce the idea to not do this.

Ok ok, maybe not an ENITRE group of spears, but a single spear in a seer council (mounted or something, or maybe a spearlock in a guardian jetbiker group) might be worth taking, to try and hit the tank that's running away, I think that spear would be more useful for cracking transports though, so the council can then jump on the squad that was inside. Otherwise though yeah, firedragons are way more useful.

Something else I read, if you know your going to face down AV14 (specificly Land Raiders), then the lance weapons are actually worth their points to gun down the very heavy tanks. In all other cases they aren't worth it.

starbomber109 wrote:Something else I read, if you know your going to face down AV14 (specificly Land Raiders), then the lance weapons are actually worth their points to gun down the very heavy tanks. In all other cases they aren't worth it.

Fire Prisms linking work better than bright lances against AV14.

They are also expensive as hell, and one being stunned shuts the whole idea down. For 320 points, enjoy this easily stunned twin linked railgun.

To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ

Q. Can a ramming vehicle’s Strength go above
10?
A. No, only a vehicle’s armour value makes
exception to the ‘Maximum 10’ rule for
characteristics.

Axyl wrote:To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ

Q. Can a ramming vehicle’s Strength go above
10?
A. No, only a vehicle’s armour value makes
exception to the ‘Maximum 10’ rule for
characteristics.

^_^ i was right in my reading then

Actually, a Seer council with a Fortune-seer would do great - sure, no AP1 weapons, but they have a 4++ Re-rolled save. Sounds like a much more survivable unit than 4+/3+ Fire Dragons, especially since if you fail, those big tank weapons will be turning on you.

Fire Dragons will get obliterated in one Battle Cannon shot, while a Seer Council may just loose a few.

Also, that Str 9 will always hit rear armor in CC. And, with the Spears, you get the toss, and a charge afterwards if it doesn't work. This would be DOOM against vehicle squadrons.

A monster council. 10 locks, eldrad, yriel with 5 spears can really wreck a raiders day. Especially since you can get close to the thing, blow it up with spears, and charge the guys inside.

Axyl wrote:To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ

Q. Can a ramming vehicle’s Strength go above
10?
A. No, only a vehicle’s armour value makes
exception to the ‘Maximum 10’ rule for
characteristics.

Well, there is is then. I stand corrected. (Sorry, Tri.)

Actually, now that I think about it, this is a huge advantage for the ramming Eldar grav tank. You can ram a heavier tank without taking a hit any stronger than the one you inflicted. So you get off with a 1/6 chance of no damage at all, and a 1/6 chance of a glance (which, with holofield, can only destroy your tank 3% of the time) and don't lose anything as a result of not being able to get more than a 21" draw on your ramming run.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Axyl wrote:To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ
(which, with holofield, can only destroy your tank 3% of the time)

Glancing can never kill in 5th.

Can i just clear something up:
In 40k it is impossible to get stronger than a str10 hit.
No matter where, or what you are ramming. Even with star engines you can only get str10, for, and against you. So ramming a falcon with HF into a Lith is a good option IMO.
The odds are in your favour

Eidolon wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Axyl wrote:To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ
(which, with holofield, can only destroy your tank 3% of the time)

Glancing can never kill in 5th.

If an Eldar grav tank moved that fast and got an immobilized result (double sixes with the holofield) then it crashes and is destroyed.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Axyl wrote:To go back to the ramming going above strength 10 issue. Check the 40k Rule book FAQ
(which, with holofield, can only destroy your tank 3% of the time)

Glancing can never kill in 5th.

If an Eldar grav tank moved that fast and got an immobilized result (double sixes with the holofield) then it crashes and is destroyed.

unless it has vectored engines

Yeah, but who buys vectored engines? Hehe.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yeah, but who buys vectored engines? Hehe.

on my WS i some times do. But its a rarity. mind you with some of the new dangers terrain powers/weapons i might start taking them more often.

Eidolon wrote:They are also expensive as hell, and one being stunned shuts the whole idea down. For 320 points, enjoy this easily stunned twin linked railgun.

I don't know what codex you are using, but mine has two for 230 points.

if you are versing orks, then get an avatar. with 5 strength 6 attacks ion the charge, ur sure to get some pens.

zamuel30 wrote:if you are versing orks, then get an avatar. with 5 strength 6 attacks ion the charge, ur sure to get some pens.

An Avatar needs to be fortuned if necessary.
Don't charge a large Orks mob, their attacks will kill him.

wuestenfux wrote:

zamuel30 wrote:if you are versing orks, then get an avatar. with 5 strength 6 attacks ion the charge, ur sure to get some pens.

An Avatar needs to be fortuned if necessary.
Don't charge a large Orks mob, their attacks will kill him.

How do you figure? They need 5's to hit and 6's to wound, even when charging. A mob of 30 orks just barely does 3.333333 wounds to the avatar if they charge, and probably less since the avatar gets to swing first and kill a couple.

Because that is mathhammer, and when you are talking 30 orks rolling all those dice it takes but a sigh in the winds of fate to punk your avatar.

I thought 18 inches was the max move of a fast vehicle (19 with red paint). Can fast skimmers go farther? I didn't think star engines could be used to ram since they aren't used in the movement phase.

Yes they can go 24 and you are correct about Star Engines.

Check under Moving Skimmers, pg 71 of BRB.. Can move 24".


Sliggoth

Indeed, star engines cannot be counted on if you plan a ramming attack.
Ramming requires thinking at least one turn ahead in order to attain a long ramming distance, 21''-24''.

Everyone seems to be forgetting something.

Before I sound like a condescending prick, does Ramming count as CC?

Wave Serpents have Energy Field, meaing that against front/Side Armour, anything abve STR 8 counts as STR 8.

Unless Ramming ignores this

Eldar codex specifies that the energy field only works against "ranged attacks." Even if ramming is CC, the energy field doesn't work against it (or any other kind of CC).