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On their turf you have to abide by their rules, in their shops and competitions. If you bring cool stuff from other manufacturers to their events you're effectively advertising other people's products.

But most of us don't play in GW shops and at official Tournaments and once you buy a model it's yours to do with as you wish in your own home.

It's just common sense, and GW aren't seriously expecting people to keep their private GW collections GW pure, and if they did they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:That's not exactly right. The first paragraph says that while converting their miniatures may be an infringement of their IP, they are okay with it, with the exceptions they listed in paragraph 2. They do not say it is okay to convert them anyway you like, otherwise there would be no prohibition against using third party bits in your conversions of GW models.

1. Don't combine GW products with third party IP. (Ever. Not for personal at home use or any other use. )

2.Don't convert a model (either using GW parts or third party bits) and then make a production run of said conversion. (Because while you may have created a unique model using nothing but GW parts, all of the parts are still GW's IP, and you can't make a production run of that IP and sell it, because you aren't licensed to do so.)

That said, I don't think the GW police are going to seek out people who convert using 3rd party bits, but I still think it is silly. What it basically boils down to is that GW doesn't want Cadians with Pig Iron heads and someone asking where those different heads came from, and the owner of said models telling them "Pig Iron Miniatures," thus directing that person to another company instead of GW. It is silly because GW is making money off the Cadian box set, whether you use the heads in the box or not. I see GW of today much like the WWF of the 1980's, wanting everyone to believe they are the only show in town and that no other companies exist.

Um, surely you're only infringing Intellecutal Property is you claim that it's YOUR Intellectual Property. You can claim this by saying 'I made this myself' or bying a production run of the designs, you're claiming that you hold the RIGHTS to those designs, which is a breach of IP.

You can buy a Transformer toy, stick a Barbie head on it, and you're not breaching any IP. You only breach IP when you claim that the result is your IP or sell a run of the finished product at profit.

GW are well within their rights to disallow you using ANYTHING in their stores, but they can't touch the products you've paid money for and have chosen to assemble differently, and play with at home.

This. I know some people like to see GW as some sort of overbearing and all-encompassing coporate behemoth, devouring all in it's wake, but surely even they can't claim ownership of a product after its been sold?

Lord_Mortis wrote:I have read different people state that GW allows a certain percentage of a model to be another company's product, and that percentage varies depending on who is telling it. But while I was reading GW's IP policy, I noticed this little nugget:

Conversions

Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in intellectual property terms, they also constitute a major infringement. However, we are certainly not about to stop people making cool conversions of our products, although, there are certain things to keep in mind:

Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties. Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness. Do not create a production run of conversions for sale. Whilst infringing our IP, this is also simply not hobby.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4

So if I am reading this correctly, while converting existing models using only GW materials is okay, using another company's "bits", such as Pig Iron Heads, on GW models is prohibited? Is that really what that say? Or am I missing something?

I wipe my ass with this. You can do what you want. You just won't necessarily be allowed in a GW tournament. I don't give a fig about GW tournaments.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:That's not exactly right. ...................see post

Um, surely you're only infringing Intellecutal Property is you claim that it's YOUR Intellectual Property. You can claim this by saying 'I made this myself' or bying a production run of the designs, you're claiming that you hold the RIGHTS to those designs, which is a breach of IP.

You can buy a Transformer toy, stick a Barbie head on it, and you're not breaching any IP. You only breach IP when you claim that the result is your IP or sell a run of the finished product at profit.

GW are well within their rights to disallow you using ANYTHING in their stores, but they can't touch the products you've paid money for and have chosen to assemble differently, and play with at home.

I think this is almost a rules as written/intended situation. GW can not/does not want to enforce these guideline that they have written, unless you have controvened them in a major noticeable way. Despite what people on the intawabz think GW are not that petty or pedatic enough to bother with conversions. I would struggle to believe that anyone would for instance would bar an army from a comp for having only 69.5% or even 60% GW material in it rather than 70%.

I would suggest that GW have written thi in their guidelines so that their stated company policy covers them in any given situation where they bar a participant from a competition on the basis of thier minis. The fact that GW charge for comps would give the player certain rights as a consumer if you then barred their army. If it all turned nasty GW can point to their publically stated policy which bars any conversions.

Or maybe I'm just a cynic?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:I have read different people state that GW allows a certain percentage of a model to be another company's product, and that percentage varies depending on who is telling it. But while I was reading GW's IP policy, I noticed this little nugget:

Conversions

Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in intellectual property terms, they also constitute a major infringement. However, we are certainly not about to stop people making cool conversions of our products, although, there are certain things to keep in mind:

Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties. Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness. Do not create a production run of conversions for sale. Whilst infringing our IP, this is also simply not hobby.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4

So if I am reading this correctly, while converting existing models using only GW materials is okay, using another company's "bits", such as Pig Iron Heads, on GW models is prohibited? Is that really what that say? Or am I missing something?

I wipe my ass with this. You can do what you want. You just won't necessarily be allowed in a GW tournament. I don't give a fig about GW tournaments.

No sorry this is a cynic!

GW is going to be heavy handed in order to protect their IP. That way if some bozo buys GW models, combines them with Star Wars models/figures, then sells them, Lucasarts cannot sue GW who had said "you can convert using other IPs have a great time we don't mind." The litigiousness of other companies is insane so GW has to protect itself anyway they possibly can. Lucasarts knows that the modeler doesn't have money but GW has some assets they'll go after. Hell, Lucasarts made Wal-mart stop making Star Wars cakes due to copyright infringement. That's taking it a bit far as I'm sure a lot of little kids would have loved Star Wars birthday cakes. But Wallyworld was making money on it and Lucasarts wasn't getting their cut. Hence the lawyers came out.

Now the actual enforcement of GW's statement of "DO NOT COMBINE blah blah blah" is a whole different animal.

I buy their models. If I make something different than what it was intended and they don't like it, tough. I paid for it. Now if I run into their stores or their tournaments, I just stepped on their turf and it's their ruling.

It's the whole reasoning of 'by using another IP's parts in a conversion, if you use it in a GW store/tournament you're effectively promoting another company's products'.

While I think that it'd be nice for people to be able to use whatever they've converted, I can also understand GW's stance on this.

I personally read this statement as 'do what you want with conversions, but we can't guarantee it'll be allowed in a GW store or GW-run tourney'. While I sympathize with those who have entire armies of heavily converted stuff with parts from other companies, I still understand why GW say this. It's common sense that if you step into a GW you should abide by their rules. It's a shame GW have these rules in place, but ultimately they're there for a reason.

Yet one more of the many reasons I now longer play at or make purchases from a GW owned store.

Is it me or does anyone else find it ridiculously slowed that a company pushes so many rules on how you play with your toys? I mean seriously, GW is taking the ‘protect our IP’ stance way too hard.

In the US I can legally re-write every rule book they make, sell them and if I have the cash to defend my court case, I will win. Just look at the old school dungeons and dragons products that are starting to flourish.

(For those that don’t believe me, here’s a quote from the US copyright office)

Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.

Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable.

When I worked for GW several years ago we were told on troops 75% had to be GW and on tanks at least 25% had to be. Granted I am sure this has all changed, but it was inthe employee handbook you recieved when youfirst joined.

There seems to be something that gets lost in all of these conversations about GW right ot protect their IP, which they of course have the option to do.

This is a hobby to me, part of the hobby being modeling miniatures. I use this as a way to express my own creativity as opposed to just buying GW model and assembling as directed.

I do this as a recreational activity. Just for fun.

If I have to hire a lawyer to explain GW intellectual property rights to me in order to "legally" participate in the hobby, this is simply too much work for me and the hobby is no longer enjoyable.

If I am unwelcome in GW stores and hasseled by thier staff because I had the brass kiwis to actually CONVERT one of their models. Or use another model I find more appealing to role dice and push around a table, why would I go to the store? This is not fun, which is the whole point.

So why would I continue this activity?

OoieGoie wrote:Interesting topic but not surprising.

After reading; Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness. Do not create a production run of conversions for sale. Whilst infringing our IP, this is also simply not hobby.

I read this as "We prefer you not to use non-GW models but if you do, please don't go selling them. This would make us sad".

QFT. Seems alot of people are misinterpreting it. No one at my GW store would get upset. Heck, some of the store workers do conversions of this sort.

Its not just guys in the store who work for GW converting miniatures. In all of the WARHAMMER Historical rulebooks GW promotes using other company's miniatures for their game.

Black Scorpion miniatures sells an entire line of minis directly for use with GW's rules systems. And GW doesn't seem to mind. In fact they took photos of them and put them in the rulebooks along with terrain made by entirely different companies. All of the terrain in the Warhammer Historicals Siege rules are from a company called Grand Manner.

It just seems ridiculous that GW would have such stringent policies at their tournaments and in their stores for Joe Shmoe Fanboy if they themselves often promote these practices in other forms of thier "intellectual property".

Is this our drama laden "why GW sucks!" topic for the day?

Understand that what a company has to SAY and what they DO, are often two different things. Look at a lot of disclaimers on most products. Many things have a line about "Use for this purpose and nothing else". This has come about because although the nasal spray company never envisioned people tearing the tubes open and eating the insides to get a quick high, once someone does this and messes himself up for life, they then sue the nasal spray company for "not putting adequate warning signs that eating it was dangerous".

GW has a stated IP policy about not combining third party stuff. So does privateer. At the same time, they aren't running around yelling about illegal conversions, or confiscating them, etc.

Hell, at this point, what "Official GW Tournament" are you going to play in? It's nearly all independent events, who are far less likely to pull that stuff than GW.

But by all means, let's keep ranting about it. Don't let reality interfere.)

Apparently its our "drama laden" post for the day about how GW really doesn't mean or do what it states in its own policies" and we should all stop discussing it and go back to to determining who has the "winniest list" and how great GW miniatures look.

Here is something interesting that I found on the gw website....

Games Workshop is not obliged to let anyone use its IP at all (for example, it's a widely held misconception that you can freely make use of someone else's copyrights, without their permission, as long as it's for your own private use - this is currently not an automatic exemption to copyright)

It seems that a lot of people are holding onto this "misconception" as they put it. Now, it may not necessarily be a profitable decision to try and enforce private use infringements, but that is really irrelevant.

I know that everyone is getting upset recently about cease and desist orders involving GW IP and games that are 20 years old...Here is something that might explain it a little bit...

"Unlike many companies, here at Games Workshop we usually only stop people from using our intellectual property if we must do so in order to protect it (provided that use is by and for hobbyists). For example, the law requires us to protect our trademarks in certain ways - and if we do not - we might lose them."

If sending out a cease and desist order will give GW the ability to keep its IP rights, then I agree.

It is a fact that GW is one of the (if not THE) Largest war game manufacturer in our section of the Hobby. PP and others dont even come close to GW's market share and many people get into other games because they play GW games. If GW loses their copyright it would leave a huge void, and nullify your $1000+ worth of time and money spent on your armies. PP isnt gonna let you field your IG as cygnar anytime soon, and I cant even see Mantis Games letting you field your GW High Elves as elves once they start running tournaments.

People may feel that a "user run" would be better for all, but I doubt that there would be any large groups that would take over GW's spot of writting codexes, and producing a unified range of models.

I know that there is the argument of "its game"/"everyone should just relax"/"have fun", but Warhammer is a game, Games Workshop, is a COMPANY, and in order to survive, companies need to make money. Restricting use of IP is one way to ensure that they can indeed make money.

And although there are more lenient smaller companies, I can't believe that once they get as large as GW they too will have similar situations as GW.

GW Stupidity wrote:We have no problem with people using forums to express their love (or even hate) of the hobby. We would, however, ask people to bear in mind that the hobby is for people all ages. Please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed. We would strongly recommend that you avoid any discussion of illegal behavior.

Is GW fight club or something?

tylermenz wrote:Here is something interesting that I found on the gw website....

Games Workshop is not obliged to let anyone use its IP at all (for example, it's a widely held misconception that you can freely make use of someone else's copyrights, without their permission, as long as it's for your own private use - this is currently not an automatic exemption to copyright)

It seems that a lot of people are holding onto this "misconception" as they put it. Now, it may not necessarily be a profitable decision to try and enforce private use infringements, but that is really irrelevant.

I know that everyone is getting upset recently about cease and desist orders involving GW IP and games that are 20 years old...Here is something that might explain it a little bit...

"Unlike many companies, here at Games Workshop we usually only stop people from using our intellectual property if we must do so in order to protect it (provided that use is by and for hobbyists). For example, the law requires us to protect our trademarks in certain ways - and if we do not - we might lose them."

If sending out a cease and desist order will give GW the ability to keep its IP rights, then I agree.

It is a fact that GW is one of the (if not THE) Largest war game manufacturer in our section of the Hobby. PP and others dont even come close to GW's market share and many people get into other games because they play GW games. If GW loses their copyright it would leave a huge void, and nullify your $1000+ worth of time and money spent on your armies. PP isnt gonna let you field your IG as cygnar anytime soon, and I cant even see Mantis Games letting you field your GW High Elves as elves once they start running tournaments.

People may feel that a "user run" would be better for all, but I doubt that there would be any large groups that would take over GW's spot of writting codexes, and producing a unified range of models.

I know that there is the argument of "its game"/"everyone should just relax"/"have fun", but Warhammer is a game, Games Workshop, is a COMPANY, and in order to survive, companies need to make money. Restricting use of IP is one way to ensure that they can indeed make money.

And although there are more lenient smaller companies, I can't believe that once they get as large as GW they too will have similar situations as GW.

I am not a lawyer, but I consider myself somewhat a philosopher, and they're close enough, what with them both being founded on bull-gak. Now, having that been said, what I get they're wanting to do is something along the lines of "Anything that doesn't include 100% GW stuff is illegal and copyright violation.... but, since we're such benelovent and wonderful people, we'll let you do it as long as most of it is GW and you aren't selling it or promoting it in any way."

Now, stop me if I'm wrong, but, I believe the original premise is flawed. They have complete right to their Imaginary Property, but they have no rights over the physical material. If I buy a box of moulded plastics from a company, be it GW, Lego, or Mattel, I am free to do what I will with those plastics as long as I don't make use of the design. I can glue them together correctly. I can leave them on sprues, I can melt them down as performance art. I can even roll them around in glue and make a giant ball of them all Katamari-style. I can glue them to other pieces of plastic I bought from another company or that I even picked up off the ground. I can even sell that specific miniature in an after-market setting (ebay, craigslist, etc.) What I can't do is call it a daedalus-pattern original, completely handcrafted from original parts by yours truely. This is claming their work as my own, though I believe I could claim the combination of parts unique. Not 100% sure about that. I also can not cast them to make more. That is me replicating their design.

GW events are a different story. They can do what they feel like in those situations. Their sandbox, their rules.

Funny thing:
Their sandbox, their rules.

Remove the sand box, no more rules.
dont go to events. that simple.

Kanluwen wrote:Actually the 70% was what they ran in official events(even at my FLGS) as of 2007.

They might have upped the percentage since then, but still.
The premise behind it is that the model MUST be recognizably GW. As in, if you were to take their mail-order catalogs or a printout from the website--you'd be able to immediately recognize the basis of the model as a Cadian Guardsman or a Bestigor with weapons from a 3rd party.

Call them and ask them what the percentage they allow is.

I promise you, the answer will be something along the lines of: "Why would you want to use parts not from GW?"

For the record, that's the exact answer I have received twice in regards to their official events when I asked.

GW is saying do not combine their IP with another companies IP and then "SELL" it.

Screw em, the stuff ive bought from them i'll do what i like with.

necroncowboy wrote:GW is saying do not combine their IP with another companies IP and then "SELL" it.

But it's more complicated than that. Take for example, if I make "Aliens" (as in H.R. Geiger) themed Tyranids for my own use and then, after being done with the army, I decide to sell it, is it legal? GW would want you to believe it isn't, based upon the impression that you have already. I on the other hand would like to argue yes, because I'm not selling an instance of the work, but the work itself.

I enjoy the all-inclusive "car analogy" method. If I buy a 1992 Honda Civic and rice it out with aftermarket rims and a tailpipe that makes me sound like I'm driving a lawnmower, then it's my prerogative. Honda couldn't do anything about it. If I realize that I'm not a 16 year old who just got done watching "Fast and the Furious" and I want a car I won't feel embarassed driving and decide to sell it, then I'm pretty sure Honda can't send their crack team of ninja lawyer assassins to my door to take my thumbs.

daedalus wrote:

necroncowboy wrote:GW is saying do not combine their IP with another companies IP and then "SELL" it.

But it's more complicated than that. Take for example, if I make "Aliens" (as in H.R. Geiger) themed Tyranids for my own use and then, after being done with the army, I decide to sell it, is it legal? GW would want you to believe it isn't, based upon the impression that you have already. I on the other hand would like to argue yes, because I'm not selling an instance of the work, but the work itself.

I enjoy the all-inclusive "car analogy" method. If I buy a 1992 Honda Civic and rice it out with aftermarket rims and a tailpipe that makes me sound like I'm driving a lawnmower, then it's my prerogative. Honda couldn't do anything about it. If I realize that I'm not a 16 year old who just got done watching "Fast and the Furious" and I want a car I won't feel embarassed driving and decide to sell it, then I'm pretty sure Honda can't send their crack team of ninja lawyer assassins to my door to take my thumbs.

No that is not what they are talking about read the stuff not in red again, they are talking about a "production run", not selling your used miniatures on ebay.

daedalus wrote:

necroncowboy wrote:GW is saying do not combine their IP with another companies IP and then "SELL" it.

But it's more complicated than that. Take for example, if I make "Aliens" (as in H.R. Geiger) themed Tyranids for my own use and then, after being done with the army, I decide to sell it, is it legal? GW would want you to believe it isn't, based upon the impression that you have already. I on the other hand would like to argue yes, because I'm not selling an instance of the work, but the work itself.

I enjoy the all-inclusive "car analogy" method. If I buy a 1992 Honda Civic and rice it out with aftermarket rims and a tailpipe that makes me sound like I'm driving a lawnmower, then it's my prerogative. Honda couldn't do anything about it. If I realize that I'm not a 16 year old who just got done watching "Fast and the Furious" and I want a car I won't feel embarassed driving and decide to sell it, then I'm pretty sure Honda can't send their crack team of ninja lawyer assassins to my door to take my thumbs.

That is not what they are saying at all. Please actually read what they are saying and stop making stuff up. All they are saying is you can not make your own conversions and then make a production run of them. That is not the same as you converting an army and then selling it on Ebay or anywhere else (except maybe one of their stores).

I really don't see the big deal. Mcdonald's wouldn't let you order food at Burger King and then come to their store and eat it. Same thing here. All GW is saying is that if you are going to play in one of their stores or one of their events then they are going to make sure you are only using their models. No big deal. If you are like me and don't give a flying fig about what figures you use then you just don't play in a GW store. Vote with your wallet.

Gaah, nevermind, I reread. That makes more sense, but in that case, what is everyone up in arms about?

Lord_Mortis wrote:Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties.

I do not sign an EULA with GW when I buy their products. I can do whatever I want to with those sprues after I pay for them. There is not a single thing GW can do but cry.

If I decide that the Imperial Guard Leman Russ kit is perfect for winterizing my windows, that's my decision. If I decide to assemble my multicolor marines into a mosaic of the Privateer Press logo, photograph that logo, and airbrush an image of that photo onto my platoon of Land Raiders, that is my decision.

GW has no legal avenue to interfere with my use of their products as long as those activities are limited to my private use of them.

filbert wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:That's not exactly right. The first paragraph says that while converting their miniatures may be an infringement of their IP, they are okay with it, with the exceptions they listed in paragraph 2. They do not say it is okay to convert them anyway you like, otherwise there would be no prohibition against using third party bits in your conversions of GW models.

1. Don't combine GW products with third party IP. (Ever. Not for personal at home use or any other use. )

2.Don't convert a model (either using GW parts or third party bits) and then make a production run of said conversion. (Because while you may have created a unique model using nothing but GW parts, all of the parts are still GW's IP, and you can't make a production run of that IP and sell it, because you aren't licensed to do so.)

That said, I don't think the GW police are going to seek out people who convert using 3rd party bits, but I still think it is silly. What it basically boils down to is that GW doesn't want Cadians with Pig Iron heads and someone asking where those different heads came from, and the owner of said models telling them "Pig Iron Miniatures," thus directing that person to another company instead of GW. It is silly because GW is making money off the Cadian box set, whether you use the heads in the box or not. I see GW of today much like the WWF of the 1980's, wanting everyone to believe they are the only show in town and that no other companies exist.

Um, surely you're only infringing Intellecutal Property is you claim that it's YOUR Intellectual Property. You can claim this by saying 'I made this myself' or bying a production run of the designs, you're claiming that you hold the RIGHTS to those designs, which is a breach of IP.

You can buy a Transformer toy, stick a Barbie head on it, and you're not breaching any IP. You only breach IP when you claim that the result is your IP or sell a run of the finished product at profit.

GW are well within their rights to disallow you using ANYTHING in their stores, but they can't touch the products you've paid money for and have chosen to assemble differently, and play with at home.

This. I know some people like to see GW as some sort of overbearing and all-encompassing coporate behemoth, devouring all in it's wake, but surely even they can't claim ownership of a product after its been sold?

Why no? The of the music and movies industries do it all the time.

necroncowboy wrote:No that is not what they are talking about read the stuff not in red again, they are talking about a "production run", not selling your used miniatures on ebay.

So you can't sell your conversions on eBay? Rubbish. Books and videos claim that they cannot be resold, but there are 2nd hand shops for these.

Lord_Mortis wrote:I have read different people state that GW allows a certain percentage of a model to be another company's product,

Conversions are a major aspect of the hobby, although in intellectual property terms, they also constitute a major infringement.

Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties. Your conversions should be one-time, unique masterpieces of hobby goodness.

Do not create a production run of conversions for sale.

So if I am reading this correctly, while converting existing models using only GW materials is okay, using another company's "bits", such as Pig Iron Heads, on GW models is prohibited?

GW typically requires "majority" (technically 51%) GW model content for their GTs and such.

Conversions aren't actually "major infringement" - tho IP-wise, they're "derivative works". You own them, so it's your right to do as you please with them. What you can't do is sell them or claim the conversion design as your own from a copyright standpoint.

GW doesn't like mixups because then the IP is blurred, and they don't want the risk that particular looks or elements would be incorporated under somebody else's IP when the GW elements aren't dominant.

Of course, GW doesn't want you selling what are primarily their designs, and rightfully, legally, so.

You can do whatever you like. GW doesn't want you mixing GW-owned designs with Pig Iron-owned designs.
____

Cryonicleech wrote:if I went to a GW hobby center or GW Run-Event, if I brought an Avatar of War model, would I get kicked out?

Absolutely, you would. Same if you brought a Warmachine, AT-43, or a Infinity model. It's a GW shop, after all.
___

solkan wrote:If you buy a model kit, assemble and paint it, your final result is a derivative work, I think, but it's also clearly the intended purpose of the model kit.

So if you buy two different model kits and then build something other than the instructions describe, is that suddenly an unauthorized derivative work?

On the other hand, can GW refuse to let you use a model they don't like in the Golden Daemon contest, or at a GW tournament? Sure, but they can do that just by saying that any models used have to abide by their IP policy.

Yes, that is correct. Someone else owns the design.

If you kitbash, it's probably unauthorized and derivative, but also a fair use of things.

Yup. GW can do as they wish at their events.
____

Howard A Treesong wrote:So you can't sell your conversions on eBay? Rubbish.

You can sell models that you bought and converted from GW.

You can't use a GW-based conversion as the master model of a casting operation.

redstripe wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:Please do not combine our intellectual properties with IP owned by any third parties.

I do not sign an EULA with GW when I buy their products. I can do whatever I want to with those sprues after I pay for them. There is not a single thing GW can do but cry.

If I decide that the Imperial Guard Leman Russ kit is perfect for winterizing my windows, that's my decision. If I decide to assemble my multicolor marines into a mosaic of the Privateer Press logo, photograph that logo, and airbrush an image of that photo onto my platoon of Land Raiders, that is my decision.

GW has no legal avenue to interfere with my use of their products as long as those activities are limited to my private use of them.

Well golly, that was a purdy little rant and all, but what, if anything, does it actually have to do with this topic? Are you enraged by the word 'please?'

Thank goodness I don't WANT to play in a tournament. Furthermore there's not an official GW store anywhere near my current place of residence or any of the places I intend to go to college... hence, not my problem.

Still, what of units that GW doesn't have official minis for?