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garret. ya thats another point, they have to act that way or become unemployed. lets not forget who the real beast is behind the redshirts. (poor lil guys)

Empchild wrote:As a former redshirt I hate to say that this is all part of the training they give you at GW. Their is a set of ten rules on a card you must memorize, and apply with everycustomer. Such as once they enter you have 15 seconds to personally greet them otherwise you can get in a ton of trouble. Then you basically have to become the customers friend, and "guide" them through their selection. Often you must remind them of the bits catalogue, and glue/white dwarfs, etc. .. This is all part of their sales style so saidly I agree as it is much like a used car salesmen, but supposedly it works well. If you don't do this and a secret shopper catches you it can be grounds for firing.

BINGO!!!

I found this out after being a regular at one of our shops a while back, the Poor things.

I think everyone who wants to work for GW in one of thier shops doesn't really get it until they get the indoctrination treatment, drink the kool aid, and then gets thrown back out into the unwashed masses to be a corperate lacky. I looked into the job back then, heard the stories, looked over a coveted book, and then said, no thanks. I don't need that kind of aggravation.

I want to really know who the genius was that thought up turning regular gamers that want to work in a... game shop, into douchebag used car ssalesmen. I mean really, we all play GW games, you would think that they would HIRE gamers, or at least someone who gave a rats behind about gameing,and actually knew what they were talking about, instead of the hollow worn out speech about "Hey, what about these kool kool new so and so's.."

I found that it didn't happen after you go into the shop a few times, but from what I gathered, they,( GW) send in a test case to be an asshat to the redshirts, to see if they are on thier toes... Is this true? They actually pay a guy to go around, waste the redshirts time to act like an ass to get a sale out of them?

Does this tactic get some extra benifits or something for GW?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spacemanvic wrote:Is it any wonder redshirts are the first to die in Star Trek?

Sigged.

I've had a mixed experience with redshirts.

The nearest GW to me had 2 redshirts who were relatively helpful, but one in particular I often found brushing me off ASAP to talk to some friends of his. (I was new to the game and of course had tons of questions) However, the manager was pretty cool.

So, maybe a couple of months or so later, I noticed that the original 2 redshirts had been fired or something, but only one was replaced. The management also changed, but I found that the redshirts in general were pretty cool, actually gave me some free stuff.

Now, I don't know who works there currently.

kinghammer wrote:Maybe we should look at it from the redshirts side:

Do you think they get tired of talking to mouth breathers?
Do you think that it is a retail location, so maybe their job is to sell?
Do you think they like to hear all the lame paint schemes and army ideas?
Do you think(god forbid) they might like their job and they are excited?
Do you they might want to talk about the hobby?

Maybe they do not know who you are and are trying to learn more about you. I have been around tons of great Readshirts and have never had any problems. There are so bad ones, but they have of thankless job that makes them talk to that wierd guy(that no one talks to) that comes into a GW or FLGS. Maybe next time you can strike up a conversion with him and tell him that you have been around the hobby for years or that you stay on top of the new releases.

Cheers

Or maybe we can look at it from both the customer's side and actually GW's side.
Is it Productive? or counter productive

/end thread.

I mean really, we all play GW games, you would think that they would HIRE gamers,

Why? After 22 years of personal experience training people to work in a game store, I'd rather hire a good worker, and teach them games. Or better yet, look for a solid worker that knows games.

But given the choice, I'll take work ethic over gaming knowledge. I can teach gaming.

The Amsterdam store was a great place to go, but they replaced the awesome, chatty blokes with massive tools who really can't handle questions from people who've been around long enough by now to know the lascannon from a plasma gun. Also, non-GW tools and paints are daemon spawn to them. Worst of all is when they let you see a new upcoming codex, they'll hover over your shoulder very intently.

BrookM wrote:Worst of all is when they let you see a new upcoming codex, they'll hover over your shoulder very intently.

They are trying to smell you

Ottawa redshirts are cool, although the old, second store they used to have used to be a little douchey.

Having worked in two different FLGS, I can tell you that the 'hard sell' works MUCH better than just saying hello, and leaving be, especially with people new to the store. When a salesperson says "Hello, how are you? Are you looking for anything in particular? Do/What do you play?" he's not trying to cram product down your throat, he's opening lines of communication. Likewise, "Have you heard about X?" is a lot more often answered with no, than yes. Granted I'm not very knowledgeable about GW staffers since we don't have one in the area, but these are proven methods for making sales. The new customer, even the ones that are 'just browsing' respond to the personal greeting, much better than being left alone; it conveys a a sense of "You are important to us, and worth the time to talk to." To the regulars it might be annoying, but it offers the opportunity to ask any questions, or to shoot the breeze.

As said earlier, honesty is the best policy; Let them get through their spiel, acknowledge your appreciation of their attempts to keep you in the know, and then tell them what exactly you're there for. If they insist on continue trying to sell you, tell them that they are being very helpful and if you DO decide you need something you'll be sure to look for them specifically to help with your order.

Redshirts at my local store tend to love the fact that they know more than you (funny because it's often not true) and then begin to stammer and stutter when you mention something that you 'shouldn't' know.

Like the other night:

Redshirt: Hey, here's the instructions. What do you think of that. *looks around to make sure no one else is looking*
Me: Ok cool. There are the parts for the Trygon, Mawloc and the Trygon Alpha. Very nice.
Other Redshirt: Yeah, the Alpha. He's like a meaner angrier version of the Trygon.
Me: And he gets Synapse.
Other Redshirt: Well... uhh... umm... but... uhh... we... we haven't uhh... got the Codex so... we... uhh... yeah. I ... umm... not sure really.

I mean... they're not stupid, so why do they act like they don't know? Do they really not know?

When my local GW first opened up 13 (almost 14, wow) years ago, I was just a young lad but I ended up going there quite a bit as it wasn't very popular. Eventually the staff got to know myself and my friends and we would hang out there for hours on end... but we weren't little gak disturbers like most kids are these days... we actually helped out. We would work with the staff to help restock, run demo games, and things of that nature. A few times we stayed after the store closed and played some private games. All in all it was a lot of fun with some great people and that's what kept me in the hobby. As time went on though, a new district/area manager arrived and basically ruined everything. All the cool people left, my friends and I stopped coming, and all the cool staff was replaced with mindless GW goobers.

Two of my friends that ended up working there part time were fired for literally no reason whatsoever and they weren't even given a notice or anything. I thought that was very poor etiquette and since then I've gone to the store maybe twice.

Now they have some old crusty looking people that work there and they really aren't doing much for the image of the hobby, if you get my meaning

Oh! And the greatest thing that I heard was something like this (the topic of the conversation was my Emperor's Children army I was working on):

Me: ...so yeah, if you'd like to see some pictures of my army since I obviously don't have it with me, you can go to DakkaDakka.com and check out my gallery. I have a lot of pictures up for it. Do you have an account there?
Redshirt: No we're not allowed to be on any of those kind of websites, I could lose my job.
Me: *blank stare of disbelief* What... seriously?

The conversation continued for a bit after that but my mind has erased it since it lowers my IQ every time I think about it . I mean seriously; how would they know unless they posted that it was them specifically. And why would they fire someone for being on a forum anyways? That's just ridiculous. Then again, it IS GW...

The one in Greenwich village is very nice. I've been in there two or three times, and already they know who I am. Of course, I suppose it helped that my first time in, I was brand new, had no idea how anything worked, and pretty much got interested by looking at the FW/GW websites. I pretty much asked the guy what I needed to get started playing IG and painting/whatever. Really did set me up with everything I needed. The next day I came back with my assembled Catachan Battleforce. He primed a squad, and sat down with me and walked me through step-by-step painting.

On subsequent visits I get the "Hey how are you" and "Can I help you find something?" Other then that they leave me be, (probably because I end up spending over $100 dollars every time I come in) and the one redshirt that taught me how to play/paint even gets the obnoxious screaming 10 year olds out of my way for me.

I'm saddened to hear that not all the GW shops are like this.

Empchild wrote:As a former redshirt I hate to say that this is all part of the training they give you at GW. Their is a set of ten rules on a card you must memorize, and apply with everycustomer. Such as once they enter you have 15 seconds to personally greet them otherwise you can get in a ton of trouble. Then you basically have to become the customers friend, and "guide" them through their selection. Often you must remind them of the bits catalogue, and glue/white dwarfs, etc. .. This is all part of their sales style so saidly I agree as it is much like a used car salesmen, but supposedly it works well. If you don't do this and a secret shopper catches you it can be grounds for firing.

And THIS means I will never ever ever ever enter a GW store. Period.

This sort of trash belongs in car sales, not game shops. I take that back, it doesn't belong in car sales either, but at least there I expect it.

I love all you armchair store owners. I suppose if you ran a store your plan for your staff would be:

1) Let the customers wander around.
2) Don't talk to them.
3) Don't try to help them find things.
4) Don't ask about their involvement in the hobby.
5) Don't ask them if they need hobby supplies.
6) Don't talk about new releases.
7) Don't tell them about the events the shop is running.

That's a sure fire way to keep the store in business.

Meh the problem for me is that they get really excited whenever a generic "what should i get for X" comes up because they start wandering over a large group of products. When I come in to buy stuff I say "I need X or Y (normally around the same price) help me choose please" normally there really cool and will talk the tactics and stuff. But dont give them the free rain to tell you what you need for your army or you're going to walk out of the store confused on how you bought Meganobz for your Lizardmen army (exageration of course)

Zoned wrote:I love all you armchair store owners. I suppose if you ran a store your plan for your staff would be:

1) Let the customers wander around.
2) Don't talk to them.
3) Don't try to help them find things.
4) Don't ask about their involvement in the hobby.
5) Don't ask them if they need hobby supplies.
6) Don't talk about new releases.
7) Don't tell them about the events the shop is running.

That's a sure fire way to keep the store in business.

There's a very real difference between being pushy and being friendly. GW staffers are overly-friendly, and quickly get annoying. I know its not really their choice and they have to do it in order to keep their jobs, so I understand. But still, it annoys me and it keeps me out of GW stores. I buy online or locally for everything I need, and it saves me both money and a headache.

[hrmm the quote I clicked on didnt work darn it]

Agreed MIK because when I owned my shop in southern Oregon we hired a gamer who we thought was a great worker. Sadly all he did was convince my partners to give him free product, and get lazy and expect his check. Rather have good employees then good gamers running a store.

I would much rather purchase something from someone being friendly and respectful instead of aggresive and in your face about glue and the new White Dwarf that no one cares about. If I say I'm just browsing, I'm just freakin' browsing. If I need assistance, I'll ask for it.

But therein lies the biggest problem. Some people are taking what the redshirts perceive as "friendly and respectful" to be "aggressive and in your face".

Seriously. Don't be a dick. They're minimum wage workers, who will especially tend to take the rules to the maximum if their managers are around. Listen to their spiel, then just say "No thank you."

Would a little politeness hurt?

Yeah but what if you are polite to them yet they persist. That's the point we are trying to make. Sure being polite to most people would work but some (er... most) of the people that work at GW will just keep picking and picking until you buy something you don't even need. I understand protocol and that some things are required but when they push crap that doesn't even have anything to do with the items you're browsing, that's just not cool.

I don't know what it's like in other areas/countries, but sometimes we get calls from people asking to clean our ducts or replace our doors and windows. "THANK GOODNESS that you called, ser, my window has been broken for 2 months and I don't even have a door any more. If it wasn't for you Id surely have froze to death!" My point is, quite simply, that is the impression I get when I enter a GW sometimes. If I'm in the 40k isle, I don't want to hear about the newest LotR release.

Okay.

Let's put this simple.

There's "polite", where you say "No thanks, I'm here for something specific. But I'll give you a holler if I need any help." and then there's "No it's cool, I'm just browsing."

The second is considered an invitation to try to get you interested into something. The first says "No, I'll ask you if I need help."
See the difference?

I dont mind red shirt asking me these:

If i need assistance
What army do i currently play ( and if its full sized )

What i dont need after replying to those 2 question ,
is if they try to push items NOT RELATED to my army.

There is been helpful , then there is annoyance in pushing me armies i have NOTHING to do with.

I understand they are humans , they can get bored , they want to socialize , thats fine
and im very happy to oblige. They want to chat , WE"LL CHAT. But if the chat some how ends in
trying to persuade me to buy some product (especially NOT related to me ) , NO THANK YOU ( i really hope i make myself clear by now guys )

BUT the annoyance comes from feels like they are door to door salesmen . And im sure this , speak for everyone that
dislike red shirts can related to .

Myes, of course I see the difference. But we are sensible people

Kanluwen wrote:There's "polite", where you say "No thanks, I'm here for something specific. But I'll give you a holler if I need any help."

The problem that I think some people are encountering is that even when they say this (which is what I would consider the nicest way of telling him to go away ) they are being badgered by other things like "Sure thing, I'll be right over here, but if you get the chance, why don't you take a look at the new White Dwarf?" or something to that effect. This conversation could go on forever with infinite amounts of 'what-ifs' but that would be counter productive. All I'm saying is that there are most definitely some redshirts that are more annoying than the fat sweaty guy breathing down your neck while you paint. On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, there are kind, polite, and respectful redshirts that know what it means when you say things like "Thanks for your assistance, I'll ask you if I need anything". In the end, it all depends on the person (as with everything in this world).

"You got the new Space Wolf sprue?" "Yeah you want to see it? You want to buy some more Rohan stuff?"

Redshirts are cool. Heck, you can even save the shipping on bits orders, or at least you used to.

anticitizen013 wrote:Myes, of course I see the difference. But we are sensible people

Kanluwen wrote:There's "polite", where you say "No thanks, I'm here for something specific. But I'll give you a holler if I need any help."

The problem that I think some people are encountering is that even when they say this (which is what I would consider the nicest way of telling him to go away ) they are being badgered by other things like "Sure thing, I'll be right over here, but if you get the chance, why don't you take a look at the new White Dwarf?" or something to that effect. This conversation could go on forever with infinite amounts of 'what-ifs' but that would be counter productive. All I'm saying is that there are most definitely some redshirts that are more annoying than the fat sweaty guy breathing down your neck while you paint. On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, there are kind, polite, and respectful redshirts that know what it means when you say things like "Thanks for your assistance, I'll ask you if I need anything". In the end, it all depends on the person (as with everything in this world).

But you see, that's just like the fact that there are CUSTOMERS who basically tell the redshirts to eff off when they did nothing but say hello.

It works both ways, just like any other personal interaction.

kenluwan , please tell me you can tell the difference while chatting with manager vs chatting with normal staff.

Talking to manager = like an normal chat / convo
Talking with staff with little experience = talking to LIFE INSURANCE SELLER ( oh im sure most people know how awful this is )

So its also experience ,
smart + experienced staff know how to make the customer happy and feel comfortable.
They know when enough is enough.

Kanluwen wrote:

anticitizen013 wrote:Myes, of course I see the difference. But we are sensible people

Kanluwen wrote:There's "polite", where you say "No thanks, I'm here for something specific. But I'll give you a holler if I need any help."

The problem that I think some people are encountering is that even when they say this (which is what I would consider the nicest way of telling him to go away ) they are being badgered by other things like "Sure thing, I'll be right over here, but if you get the chance, why don't you take a look at the new White Dwarf?" or something to that effect. This conversation could go on forever with infinite amounts of 'what-ifs' but that would be counter productive. All I'm saying is that there are most definitely some redshirts that are more annoying than the fat sweaty guy breathing down your neck while you paint. On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, there are kind, polite, and respectful redshirts that know what it means when you say things like "Thanks for your assistance, I'll ask you if I need anything". In the end, it all depends on the person (as with everything in this world).

But you see, that's just like the fact that there are CUSTOMERS who basically tell the redshirts to eff off when they did nothing but say hello.

It works both ways, just like any other personal interaction.

Aha... see this is the problem.
A hello have nothing to do with trying to sell you something. Quite different motives yes?

LunaHound wrote:kenluwan , please tell me you can tell the difference while chatting with manager vs chatting with normal staff.

Talking to manager = like an normal chat / convo
Talking with staff with little experience = talking to LIFE INSURANCE SELLER ( oh im sure most people know how awful this is )

So its also experience ,
smart + experienced staff know how to make the customer happy and feel comfortable.
They know when enough is enough.

First: Is it so difficult to spell "Kanluwen"? A. Not E. I don't call you Lunehound.

Secondly: Talking to managers can be just as bad. It's a personal interaction. Personal interactions involve people. People are all different.

Gasp. Amazing!
The new FLGS that just opened up nearby, they employed the same techniques. For every person they scare off with the intent of y'know...human interaction, they win over another five. It's a simple game of numbers. It doesn't matter that you dislike it, it doesn't matter that ANYONE dislikes it. It's a proven technique. It works. End of story.

Lol at anticitizen013. I would like you to try to be "friendly and respectful" yet lead into a sales conversation.

I have been to every GW in the GTA. Yes, they ask me if I need glue, paint...etc when I'm making a purchase. Usually I tell them "no thanks." And you know what, that's always the end of the story! They don't pester me more about it. And occasionally, they do remind me about something I forgot, which boosts the sale a little for them.

No matter what you think of WD, the staff are instructed to sell/promote it. So don't get upset at the staff. That's like getting mad at a waiter for suggesting an appetizer or dessert.

And you would run a very poor retail store if you simply let customers browse and not talk to them. Face it, when someone says "I'm just browsing" that really means "I'm looking for something, just not sure what." It's the retail employee's job to help you with that decision! 'Cause if you reach a decision, that equals a sale!

The alternative, you see, is to let the customer possibly reach no decision, which equals no sale. Why roll dice? Why not guide him to a decision and increase your chances of a sale?

The problem you may be encountering is the tact or art. Some employees are very knowledgeable and smooth when dealing with customers. Some are not.

And I have never, ever, in 13 years of going to a GW had an employee suggest something that wasn't related to my army. I'm fairly sure that 90% of these stories of "oooh, you play Tau, you want a Baneblade!" are internet myths. If I walk in and they ask me what I play, and I say Space Marines, we talk about my list, what's working and what's not. From there we talk about what units would complement my army, which I may or may not purchase later.

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:kenluwan , please tell me you can tell the difference while chatting with manager vs chatting with normal staff.

Talking to manager = like an normal chat / convo
Talking with staff with little experience = talking to LIFE INSURANCE SELLER ( oh im sure most people know how awful this is )

So its also experience ,
smart + experienced staff know how to make the customer happy and feel comfortable.
They know when enough is enough.

First: Is it so difficult to spell "Kanluwen"? A. Not E. I don't call you Lunehound.

Secondly: Talking to managers can be just as bad. It's a personal interaction. Personal interactions involve people. People are all different.

Gasp. Amazing!
The new FLGS that just opened up nearby, they employed the same techniques. For every person they scare off with the intent of y'know...human interaction, they win over another five. It's a simple game of numbers. It doesn't matter that you dislike it, it doesn't matter that ANYONE dislikes it. It's a proven technique. It works. End of story.

There is a problem with that.
1) where are you getting the numbers from with how many customer actually benefit from this type of sales pitch.
And here comes the other part you missed.
2) Assuming that the numbers you is accurate ( assuming ) , have you or GW took in account that
the amount of people that actually goes to the store that falls into the sales pitch = newbie customers?

You see , the number means nothing , if it doesnt include the people that DOESNT go to GW for such reasons.

See , lets play with numbers alittle .

Lets say 100 customers just to make it less math for me :3
You can say 90 customers enjoyed and bought w/e the red shirt successfully persuaded in selling.
so thats 90% success rate yes?

Alright , now here is the part you missed.
Lets say the other 100 are vets ( like most of the people in this thread that dislike shopping in gw store for w/e reasons ) actually avoid shopping there?

Now you have like 110 people out of 200 that doesnt shop there ,
the numbers suddenly changes ALOT doesnt it?

Or are you going to say im wrong ?

Why would a business push sales tactics that are ineffective?