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Honestly, just let predators fire like they were fast vehicles or give it the machine spirit rules.

Its supposed to be a light tank, so let it move like one!

Now, It doesn't make sense to field them in squadrons- even if preds are numerous for marines, that's it- for marines. Nine preds would be a massive amount of resources for a few marines to bring into a skirmish- Apocalyspe, or Planetstrike, yeah, but not in normal 40k.

jp400 wrote:Other then a slight redo of some point costs I personally feel that the pred is fine the way it is. I don't see a point in makeing tank heavy Spam Marines. They are not supposed to be THE treadhead army in the game....

I disagree. I think that they are not meant to be the *gunline* army in the game. Treadheads though...every offensively successful military for the past 70 years has put armored spearheads at the front of their assaults. In the case of Space Marines, they're meant to be an offensive force, blitzkrieg style, where everything works in harmony and you have a real combined arms approach to warfare. IE: infantry, tanks, artillery, and air, all networking to produce the best results.

While IG are the real "treadheads", their armor serves a different purpose. IG has always been, until recently with mechvets and air in the latest codex, THE gunline army. Even before Tau, and without all the ninja play.

If you look at a recent example, the 1991 Gulf War and the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the coalition and US forces utilized armored spearheads that were highly mobile. So mobile, in fact, that the supply train actually had a hard time keeping up with the advance of the tanks! The Abrams doesn't really have a 40k equivalent, but if I were looking for a modern tank to fill the role of multirole strike vehicle, I'd probably compare the Israeli Merkava to the Land Raider in that it's a fighting tank AND a troop transport. So Predators, in that case, are more like Bradleys. Light tanks, 25mm chaingun (basically an autocannon), there to support the infantry. Rhinos are more or less like Strykers (lightly armed, relatively quick).

So it seems to me that tank-heavy is fine for mechanized Space Marines. From a standpoint of practicality, treads move faster than feet, so any strike force using overt action would be well served to mechanize in comparatively lightly armored vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mekniakal wrote:Honestly, just let predators fire like they were fast vehicles or give it the machine spirit rules.

Its supposed to be a light tank, so let it move like one!

Now, It doesn't make sense to field them in squadrons- even if preds are numerous for marines, that's it- for marines. Nine preds would be a massive amount of resources for a few marines to bring into a skirmish- Apocalyspe, or Planetstrike, yeah, but not in normal 40k.

It also doesn't make sense that you can smash 5 Land Raiders into a normal force organization chart since each chapter only has 5 or so, but I think you'll see just about as many 5 Raider lists as you will 9 Predator lists. In other words, very few.

The goal isn't to spam Predators, but rather to allow for other options in a force organization chart if you want to play 3 of them.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:[
So it seems to me that tank-heavy is fine for mechanized Space Marines. From a standpoint of practicality, treads move faster than feet, so any strike force using overt action would be well served to mechanize in comparatively lightly armored vehicles.

Hence, the razorback, the premier "heavy weapon on the go" for marines.

Once again, the problem is that marine vehicles have no way to circumvent the "pillbox" mentality of vehicles in this edition, bar the landraider, if they had rules that let them act like fast vehicles, it would be improved for them.

Mekniakal wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:[
So it seems to me that tank-heavy is fine for mechanized Space Marines. From a standpoint of practicality, treads move faster than feet, so any strike force using overt action would be well served to mechanize in comparatively lightly armored vehicles.

Hence, the razorback, the premier "heavy weapon on the go" for marines.

Once again, the problem is that marine vehicles have no way to circumvent the "pillbox" mentality of vehicles in this edition, bar the landraider, if they had rules that let them act like fast vehicles, it would be improved for them.

Well to be quite honest, the easiest way to do it would be to make Rhinos assault vehicles. The problem is, nothing you can stick in a Rhino is worth assaulting with in the first place.

Tactical Marines suck, plain and simple. They're durable, and that's about it. For 16 points, you get a guy with 1 attack base, and a loadout that allows him to take ONE boltpistol shot and then assault, or stand still and rapid fire the bolter, and then get charged. Meanwhile, Chaos Marines and Grey Hunters are 15 pts each, have better statlines or special rules (higher LD, or counterattack, respectively), AND close combat weapons.

If they want to make SM playable as a true assault force, they need to give each Tactical Marine a close combat weapon, bolt pistol, and bolter, make the special/heavy weapon rules "1 heavy OR special weapon per 5 men in the squad), and make Rhinos assault vehicles. Then up the cost of everything appropriately.



But I digress: Predators aren't assault vehicles. They're there to provide covering fire for your Land Raiders, Rhinos, Assault Marines, and Land Speeders. They just have to keep up.

This makes sense, and is fluffy.